REVISED W/ CONTRACT INFO Is this a fair offer for an on location job?

[jdramirez]

I'm an amateur photographer and I think I'm looking to take that step to semi-professional photog. There is a Civil War reenactment coming up and the opportunity to hangout on the "battle field" and snap a few action shots has come up. If they paid me in donuts and cocaine, I'd probably do it despite being on a diet and drug free since '83 (I just liked the rhyme... there isn't a story about what happened in 1983 when I was 6 years old).

Well, compensation is $100 for the day which would amount to maybe a 90 minute round trip drive for me and probably a 2 hour "battle". Seriously how long could a reenactment last? I presume I would give up all copyright over my photos and they would potentially be published as a calendar, postcards, or in a book. I might get a credit in a book, but I would doubt I would keep any rights to the images.

So is that a fair offer? Again... I'm going to do it... but I read an article a few years ago about not working for peanuts or free because that just hurts the entire industry.

I haven't been offered the gig yet or told the specific details about residuals, but I am also trying to be realistic and not being too naive.

Thanks for responding. John Mulaney has a line about being naive. You're gonna give me a whole $100 for all my songs Mr. Gordy?!?

 

[Jim Saunders]

Re: Is this a fair offer for an on location job?

$100 for a day of work? Not like that. If it were two or so hours at a venue close at hand then maybe.

Jim

 

[jdramirez]

Re: Is this a fair offer for an on location job?

$100 for a day of work? Not like that. If it were two or so hours at a venue close at hand then maybe.

Jim

OK... then what would fair compensation for a job like that be including copyright?

 

[Jim Saunders]

Re: Is this a fair offer for an on location job?

I look at it like this:

Money for gas for the drive
Money for a meal
Your time at the event
Your time on post-production
The rights to your work

What the last three are worth are flexible I suppose, but an hour and a half each way at 4 bucks a gallon is no small thing.

Jim

 

[Hobby Shooter]

Re: Is this a fair offer for an on location job?

I would say that you have to start somewhere. Never mind about the industry, the industry doesn't care about you. If you think it's a good way to get experience, then go for it. At leat it's a paid job and you get one under your belt. Next one to hire you won't know how much/little you got paid. But try to get to keep the photos at least.

thanks
J

 

[dexstrose]

Re: Is this a fair offer for an on location job?

At my previous job, they paid stringers 125 for about 1-2 hour event shoot.

I would do it to advance my skills and try something diffrent. Maybe you can build a relationship and get more referrals in the future. Also you can expose your equipment and self to a new expririence. Have fun and do something than the normal.

Good luck!

 

[Jim Saunders]

Re: Is this a fair offer for an on location job?

At my previous job, they paid stringers 125 for about 1-2 hour event shoot.

I would do it to advance my skills and try something diffrent. Maybe you can build a relationship and get more referrals in the future. Also you can expose your equipment and self to a new expririence. Have fun and do something than the normal.

Good luck!

Right, so that for my time, gas money and a modest meal adds up to terms I'd consider at this point in my life.

Jim

 

[RGF]

Re: Is this a fair offer for an on location job?

At my previous job, they paid stringers 125 for about 1-2 hour event shoot.

I would do it to advance my skills and try something diffrent. Maybe you can build a relationship and get more referrals in the future. Also you can expose your equipment and self to a new expririence. Have fun and do something than the normal.

Good luck!

Right, so that for my time, gas money and a modest meal adds up to terms I'd consider at this point in my life.

Jim

3 hours driving (90 minutes each way). Call that 120 miles, 20 MPG, 6 gallons of gas @ $4/gallon = $25.
2 hours there, 1 hour wait time (getting set up, leaving), 2 hours post processing = 5 hours or $15/hour. Barely above minimum wage. If you post processing, send jpgs, agree upon starting and stoping time, then maybe.

Do you get photo credits? That might be the draw to building a reputation.

 

[scottkinfw]

Re: Is this a fair offer for an on location job?

Here is my 2 cents.

I agree that you need to start somewhere.

The $100.00 is really nothing, and will just cover expenses. If this was a "meet up" would you do it for free just because it is interesting or because you could learn something?

Also, nothing like actually being paid to do something to really understand the responsibility. You will learn a lot from the experience, and you may get leads. This may be more valuable than the money.

I would keep the copyrights but allow them to use the pics with restrictions that you see fit- that is fair given the small remuneration.

 

[deleteme]

Re: Is this a fair offer for an on location job?

Consider the $100 a scholarship towards the tuition you are paying in the school of real life.

At this school you will learn:
What clients want and how quickly they expect it.
How to shoot an event
How to deal with the "models"
What things cost
AND how long an event takes
AND how long post processing takes

This will not be learned from this one gig but from many over a period of time. At the end of your education you will be well informed as to what you need to charge, if you have clients that will pay that, and, most importantly, if you want to make your living doing it.

Best of luck.

 

[bdunbar79]

Re: Is this a fair offer for an on location job?

At my previous job, they paid stringers 125 for about 1-2 hour event shoot.

I would do it to advance my skills and try something diffrent. Maybe you can build a relationship and get more referrals in the future. Also you can expose your equipment and self to a new expririence. Have fun and do something than the normal.

Good luck!

Right, so that for my time, gas money and a modest meal adds up to terms I'd consider at this point in my life.

Jim

3 hours driving (90 minutes each way). Call that 120 miles, 20 MPG, 6 gallons of gas @ $4/gallon = $25.
2 hours there, 1 hour wait time (getting set up, leaving), 2 hours post processing = 5 hours or $15/hour. Barely above minimum wage. If you post processing, send jpgs, agree upon starting and stoping time, then maybe.

Do you get photo credits? That might be the draw to building a reputation.

Actually, it's 45 minutes one way: 90 minutes round trip.

 

[CanadianInvestor]

Re: Is this a fair offer for an on location job?

Keep the rights to your images, and, as for what you feel is a fair fee, ask them for a receipt in that amount if the organiser is a charitable outfit. If your client is well endowed and they get money for their activities, you should bill them a decent amount as the Canon rumour-mongers here have stated.

Good luck and enjoy. Only in my dreams will I have the good fortune to be in this quandary.

 

[bycostello]

Re: Is this a fair offer for an on location job?

never give your copyright away....

 

[expatinasia]

Re: Is this a fair offer for an on location job?

I presume I would give up all copyright over my photos and they would potentially be published as a calendar, postcards, or in a book. I might get a credit in a book, but I would doubt I would keep any rights to the images.

Never, ever assume or presume when it comes to business. If they do not have a contract in place, make sure you outline exactly what you will provide them and if possible get them to sign or at the very least agree to what you have written.

Don't be afraid to put your foot down and ask for more money, or the right to a percentage of the picture sales (calendars, postcards etc.).

It may be worthwhile speaking to some of the guys taking part, sell them a package. People do buy pictures of themselves but you have to make it easy for them (automate it online etc).

Remember that you are providing a service.

 

[tron]

Re: Is this a fair offer for an on location job?

I wouldn't do it if I didn't keep the copyright of my work period.
It isn't worth even for practicing. I believe they are trying to take advantage of you.

 

[jdramirez]

Re: Is this a fair offer for an on location job?

I look at it like this:

Money for gas for the drive
Money for a meal
Your time at the event
Your time on post-production
The rights to your work

What the last three are worth are flexible I suppose, but an hour and a half each way at 4 bucks a gallon is no small thing.

Jim

I do agree that I would not drive 90 minutes... so that is an extra expense. And I do realize people get paid for food when they are out on a job, but I'm pretty sure that I was planning on eating anyway that day... so I consider it a wash.

My time at the event... if I was a professional and I could be doing something else that would be making money, sure... but otherwise I will be at the pool with the wife and kid wondering what time we are going to go home. So I almost will give this up for free because it sounds more interesting and exciting than the alternative.

I'm not sure about post... and it is a huge pain in the ass to work over 500+ photos in lightroom... But for publishing purposes, wouldn't someone want the raw image themselves and then adjust it to their liking. I'm not sure, but considering this is supposed to be civil war reenactment, I would assume they would want to sepia everything.

As for the rights, I suppose I can negotiate the rights to those, keeping the copyright for myself, but giving them total unrestricted use of the images as long as they provide me a credit in the publication... and a copy of whatever is produced.

They may be getting me on the cheap... I realize that, but this would officially vault me from amateur to semi-pro with a near guaranteed publishing credit. Seems like I'm getting a good deal more out of this just for giving up a weekend.

 

[jdramirez]

Re: Is this a fair offer for an on location job?

I would say that you have to start somewhere. Never mind about the industry, the industry doesn't care about you. If you think it's a good way to get experience, then go for it. At leat it's a paid job and you get one under your belt. Next one to hire you won't know how much/little you got paid. But try to get to keep the photos at least.

thanks
J

I agree... but I have mostly been shooting for praise... the last 5 years... Praise can't buy me a double cheeseburger and McDonalds.

"Um, I got this very nice thank you letter for taking photos... Will I be getting any change back?"

I don't want to become a full time photographer, but to become a freelance doing an occasional fun event with the ability to roam where I want and to do interesting things (I presume) simply because I have a camera in hand... That seems more like fun.

 

[jdramirez]

Re: Is this a fair offer for an on location job?

At my previous job, they paid stringers 125 for about 1-2 hour event shoot.

I would do it to advance my skills and try something diffrent. Maybe you can build a relationship and get more referrals in the future. Also you can expose your equipment and self to a new expririence. Have fun and do something than the normal.

Good luck!

The outfit is a small organization, doing mostly self-published books about fishing. I think they are branching out... so I don't think more jobs will come directly from them, but having a letter of recommendation certainly might help get more little jobs. So that would be a plus.

 

[nebugeater]

Re: Is this a fair offer for an on location job?

On of the Mud Runs in the area was advesting on Craigslist for a gig like this a little over a month ago. To the best that I remember there ad specified close to teh following.

Must have a DSLR and lens Specifiy in the respose what you have
Must have multiple bateries Specify in resonse
Must be willing to be at event 8 + hours
Will be located at one location for the day
Event will supply memory cards
Expect to take between 1000 - 2000 photos
Photos are owned by the event
Compensation = $200

Not of interest to me but I am guessing they got plenty of response.

 

[docholliday]

Re: Is this a fair offer for an on location job?

You could take the $100, chalk it up to experience. Only send them full size edited JPGs. Enjoy the shoot, rub some elbows, and have fun.

However, I would give them only the JPGs WITH a release authorization for publication/web/whatever you feel is acceptable. That way, they know you mean business. They'll get to use the images for the intended purpose, but since you've handed over the release for specific purpose, they don't take advantage of you.

Be sure to get it up front what is expected AND written on paper. You could even send an email as a follow up before shooting "just to be sure things are in order". A contract is only worth the paper it's written on. The email is better than nothing. I usually do an "agreement" (contract is a bad word) and follow up with an email 24-48 hours before the shoot. That way, there are no surprises.