RF Mount APS-C camera coming second half of 2021 [CR2]

AccipiterQ

EOS 90D
Sep 11, 2014
179
236
As soon as this posted I crashed through the ceiling of Canon's development center and started screaming 'DON'T TEASE ME"
 
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SteveC

R5
CR Pro
Sep 3, 2019
2,482
2,348
It's not so difficult to see that they aren't planning an RF-mount crop sensor camera and 0 crop sensor lenses and as I said, they can make cameras like Nikon's Z50, which isn't that big or heavy. They are slowly migrating their cinema line to RF-mount as well, because it is the logical thing to do.

No, they haven't done nearly as much as they could with the EF-M. They just don't want to, as the return on development investment is too little and smartphones are slowly eating up this segment.
As I said, there is plenty of life left in the EF-M they will continue to sell the cheap stuff and new cameras will be coming. Just not in the long-run as cameras are getting newer technology, but also become more and more expensive and one mount is enough to deal with.

And you've missed my point. So did someone else who I responded to earlier, in his reply to me.

That's two of you who have looked at this rumor, and said, basically, "well that means the EF-M is dead" (or probably dead). No, this rumor doesn't mean that. It doesn't even do a thing to make the demise of the EF-M more likely than before.

Both of you have cited other reasons to conclude that EF-M is likely going to be deemphasized (more than it already is), but haven't explained to me how you make a leap from this rumor to concluding the EF-M is in more trouble than anyone thought yesterday.
 

amorse

EOS R
Jan 26, 2017
823
1,113
www.instagram.com
Doubt this will kill EOS-M, unless Canon plan on relaunching all the current EF-M lenses in RP-S mount which is unlikely.

The RF APS-C camera is a niche product for a small number of people prepared to pay a premium for an APS-C camera to use high quality lenses. Despite what these people think they are in the small minority of Canon's current APS-C customers.


I think essentially what we'll see is an M7 and an R7 essentially identical except with different mounts.
Certainly the RF camera referenced here seems akin to a 7D successor and targeting users who will pay a premium for an APS-C camera, but I struggle to imagine Canon building this camera and then leaving things there. I think if they make one APS-C RF body, there is a good chance that other APS-C RF cameras come along to hit other price points. Canon has pumped R&D into RF, but the price for entry is still on the high side for first-time camera buyers. I could certainly see a lower cost body coming to RF to entice first time buyers to get into the Canon RF ecosystem, much the same way EF-S bodies were an easy transition to EF bodies.

I'm not sure I agree that Canon wouldn't re-launch lenses in APS-C RF mount - it really depends on their long-term plan, and they certainly re-launched several EF lenses in RF mount. Canon has been on a patent spree for RF lenses including focal ranges more akin to APS-C on RF mount (RF 18-45), and patented several slower primes (albeit full frame patents). If Canon can fill out the lower cost/lower size range of RF lenses and shows willingness to create an APS-C RF line at all, then I could see a lot of temptation to move away from EF-S and EF-M entirely. Doing so could potentially fill (to some extent) the "small and light" niche held by EOS-M, and the "entry to mid-level" niche held by EF-S, while creating a more direct transition for those buying entry level bodies to purchase higher-end full frame bodies. It would also reduce the number of mounts they need to manage, and ensure that new entry level cameras are developed on the same platform they've openly admitted to focusing on. The more I think about it, the more I struggle to see Canon continuing to release bodies with mounts where no new glass is coming any time soon.
 

padam

EOS R
Aug 26, 2015
1,261
921
And you've missed my point. So did someone else who I responded to earlier, in his reply to me.

That's two of you who have looked at this rumor, and said, basically, "well that means the EF-M is dead" (or probably dead). No, this rumor doesn't mean that. It doesn't even do a thing to make the demise of the EF-M more likely than before.

Both of you have cited other reasons to conclude that EF-M is likely going to be deemphasized (more than it already is), but haven't explained to me how you make a leap from this rumor to concluding the EF-M is in more trouble than anyone thought yesterday.
Your guess is plain wrong and you can see that just by reading the contents, which are based on everything that has happened until now, and predicted to happen in the future. And everything anybody is writing about future products is a prediction and it may change, that's not difficult to see.
People seem to be very sensitive about a system potentially being discontinued (or just everything in general that is a differing opinion or written in a style different to them, etc. etc.).
I don't really get this, since it will remain available for several years to come, it will have the higher-end body that was missing before, and it is also a very small system to begin with, not like the Olympus m43 system with a much wider range of products and much more development behind it.
 

Fletchahh

7D Mark II
CR Pro
Aug 31, 2020
23
35
Pasadena, CA
Certainly the RF camera referenced here seems akin to a 7D successor and targeting users who will pay a premium for an APS-C camera, but I struggle to imagine Canon building this camera and then leaving things there. I think if they make one APS-C RF body, there is a good chance that other APS-C RF cameras come along to hit other price points. Canon has pumped R&D into RF, but the price for entry is still on the high side for first-time camera buyers. I could certainly see a lower cost body coming to RF to entice first time buyers to get into the Canon RF ecosystem, much the same way EF-S bodies were an easy transition to EF bodies.

I'm not sure I agree that Canon wouldn't re-launch lenses in APS-C RF mount - it really depends on their long-term plan, and they certainly re-launched several EF lenses in RF mount. Canon has been on a patent spree for RF lenses including focal ranges more akin to APS-C on RF mount (RF 18-45), and patented several slower primes (albeit full frame patents). If Canon can fill out the lower cost/lower size range of RF lenses and shows willingness to create an APS-C RF line at all, then I could see a lot of temptation to move away from EF-S and EF-M entirely. Doing so could potentially fill (to some extent) the "small and light" niche held by EOS-M, and the "entry to mid-level" niche held by EF-S, while creating a more direct transition for those buying entry level bodies to purchase higher-end full frame bodies. It would also reduce the number of mounts they need to manage, and ensure that new entry level cameras are developed on the same platform they've openly admitted to focusing on. The more I think about it, the more I struggle to see Canon continuing to release bodies with mounts where no new glass is coming any time soon.

I hope some RF-S or equivalent lenses get developed, if only to see what high end crop lenses Sigma comes up with. I personally love (and own) the Sigma EF-S 18-35mm f1.8 and 50-100mm f1.8, and even the lack IS in those lenses doesn't matter as much with the introduction of IBIS.
 

Stuart

Hi, Welcome from an ePhotozine fan, & 6D user.
Jul 22, 2010
389
128
London & Woking
www.ephotozine.com
I'd written off APS-c for the RF mount. But great - more bodies feeding the RF lens line up.

Higher speed - 8k video cameras with IBIS, on a smaller APS-c chip, heat pumps, and 200fps? Global shutter? Also good for frame by frame bird flight.
 

SteveC

R5
CR Pro
Sep 3, 2019
2,482
2,348
I hope some RF-S or equivalent lenses get developed, if only to see what high end crop lenses Sigma comes up with. I personally love (and own) the Sigma EF-S 18-35mm f1.8 and 50-100mm f1.8, and even the lack IS in those lenses doesn't matter as much with the introduction of IBIS.

It's possible Canon will say "hell no" to that. I'm speculating (and of course all of this is predicated on them producing a RF mount with a crop sensor behind the mount). EF-S lenses brought in some confusion, and Canon went out of the way to make sure you couldn't put a crop EF lens onto a full frame camera, making sure to put some sort of tab in, and creating a new tab for their crop sensor cameras that would take that tab. (It's not really a separate mount, honestly.)

With an RF APS-C lens, they'd want to label it very, very clearly to make sure somebody doesn't buy the lens, stick it on their full frame camera, have it go into crop mode, then complain that there is a bug--"my new 69mm makes my camera go into crop mode!" "Well, yes, silly, because it's a crop lens!" "Really?"

I'd even go so far as to call it an "RF APS-C" lens on the box, instead of coding it with an S, which could mean anything, but that's a decision for the marketers, IF they decide want to go there with crop lenses in the first place. Which wouldn't surprise me either way.
 
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SteveC

R5
CR Pro
Sep 3, 2019
2,482
2,348
I'd written off APS-c for the RF mount. But great - more bodies feeding the RF lens line up.

Higher speed - 8k video cameras with IBIS, on a smaller APS-c chip, heat pumps, and 200fps? Global shutter? Also good for frame by frame bird flight.

For that they'd have to either upsample, or come up with a 45MP APS-C sensor. The 32 MP APS-C sensor in the 90D and M6-II is already a marvel.
 

Aaron D

Hey!
Jul 21, 2016
273
265
Kansas City
www.aarondougherty.com
I certainly see the appeal of the M cameras--I had the first version for a year but sold it because I always used a FF camera anyway. I bought the M for its compactness, but used the 5Div for image quality, even though it was a load to drag around relatively speaking. And besides which I need a backup body for assignment work, so both have to be the same sensor size. Architectural, so it's critical the lenses stay 'wide'.

So here's my tangential idea:

How 'bout a range-finder style RF full frame body? Make it even more compact than the R is now and give it enough pixel density that you can still crop your birdies?
 

amorse

EOS R
Jan 26, 2017
823
1,113
www.instagram.com
And you've missed my point. So did someone else who I responded to earlier, in his reply to me.

That's two of you who have looked at this rumor, and said, basically, "well that means the EF-M is dead" (or probably dead). No, this rumor doesn't mean that. It doesn't even do a thing to make the demise of the EF-M more likely than before.

Both of you have cited other reasons to conclude that EF-M is likely going to be deemphasized (more than it already is), but haven't explained to me how you make a leap from this rumor to concluding the EF-M is in more trouble than anyone thought yesterday.
I'm assuming you're referencing me here - my apologies if I've got it wrong. Again, I did not say "well the EF-M mount is dead", nor did I say it is probably dead. I said "maybe there's some truth to the death of EOS-M then" which was a reference to the rumour from August 29th that said it would be phased out in 2021.

As to why this rumour could lend any credibility to the rumour from the 29th, this rumour said this will be a "higher margin camera built around speed and a smaller footprint than the EOS R5 and EOS R6." I'd argue that EOS-M cameras are made to have the smallest footprint reasonable for an ILC, and establishing a small footprint body in RF mount with an APS-C sensor steps on the toes of EOS-M in some ways. Combine that new piece of information from this rumour (a smaller footprint body) with the rumour from August 29 on the end of EOS-M, and with Canon's notes on moving R&D focus largely into RF mount, and I think there is more reason to believe Canon could reproduce some of the benefits of EOS-M in the RF mount, which could eventually make EOS-M redundant.

Again, I'm not saying M is dead, but this rumour impacts my perspective on the longevity of EOS-M.
 

blackcoffee17

EOS RP
Sep 17, 2014
695
889
Very interesting - maybe there's some truth to the death of EOS-M then. I guess the crux of the question here will be whether or not the "higher margin" nature of the body will put it out of reach for many traditional 7D buyers.

Any word on a higher resolution full frame body coming with it?

Compared to all M bodies and entry level cameras, the 7D is also "higher margin".
 

Philrp

Waiting patiently for my APS-C EOS R
Sep 2, 2018
42
74
FYI.

I bought 7D cameras because I wanted the high end features at a price I could afford, and it let me buy lenses that could fit any Canon camera, while retaining their value.

If photography ever becomes my living, I just need to change the body. No M camera would can do any of this.

Can't wait for my APS-C RF mount camera, with EF adapter ;o)
 
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brad-man

Semi-Reactive Member
Jun 6, 2012
1,676
588
S Florida
FYI.

I bought 7D cameras because I wanted the high end features at a price I could afford, and it let me buy lenses that could fit any Canon camera, while retaining their value.

If photography ever becomes my living, I just need to change the body. No M camera would can do any of this.

Can't wait for my APS-C RF mount camera, with EF adapter ;o)
That's all well and good, but your situation is hardly representative of the buying public at large...
 

David - Sydney

EOS R
CR Pro
Dec 7, 2014
1,010
838
www.flickr.com
Your guess is plain wrong and you can see that just by reading the contents, which are based on everything that has happened until now, and predicted to happen in the future. And everything anybody is writing about future products is a prediction and it may change, that's not difficult to see.
3 things you know for sure about a forecast:
1. It is wrong
2. The further out the forecast, the more wrong (inaccurate) it is
3. Any forecast is better than having no forecast
:)
 

dwarven

EOS RP
CR Pro
Dec 12, 2019
294
459
California, US
FYI.

I bought 7D cameras because I wanted the high end features at a price I could afford, and it let me buy lenses that could fit any Canon camera, while retaining their value.

If photography ever becomes my living, I just need to change the body. No M camera would can do any of this.

Can't wait for my APS-C RF mount camera, with EF adapter ;o)

You can adapt EF lenses to an M body.
 

tataylino

EOS M50
Jul 14, 2020
27
29
Only when they introduced an entry level APS-C RF mount (maybe will be named R100 or R1000?), that would be end of M line.
 
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