Rumored Canon EOS M6 Mark II specifications [CR1]

[canonnews]

Well I think any reasonable company that is making business is not going where the market is not going DSLR is less than a third of the market now and quickly dying. So no, I don’t think we will see many new DSLR cameras in the future, and yes Canon might be the only one to do so to make a few niche sales with DSLR fanboys.
Look at this chart as a CEO and tell me what focus you give to your R&D department?
View attachment 185835

what's missing is the fact that the major changes from 2018 to 2019 YTD have been because of Nikon and Canon really disrupting the market. And if this is from sony, this is revenue-based, and probably shipped totals or FOB values, which is a little asterisked because both full frame, and mirrorless have had the majority of new releases, these things ebb and flow depending on life cycles.

Also what's missing from that "statistic" is the fact that mirrorless, even with the massive new investments and shipping from Canon, Nikon and Panasonic, has not even come close to matching the loss in DSLR numbers by the disruption.

This I'm sure has some executives panicking more than anything.

They have to continue to encourage the DSLR user base in one of two ways that mirrorless is what they should be getting into and really the RF and Z mounts or come up with new F and EF mount products, if there's a significant resistance to change.

So no, it's not just one focus, because that will certainly be a problem. what missing is the significantly sized user bases that still exist for the F and EF mount systems.

 

[Architect1776]

what's missing is the fact that the major changes from 2018 to 2019 YTD have been because of Nikon and Canon really disrupting the market. And if this is from sony, this is revenue-based, and probably shipped totals or FOB values, which is a little asterisked because both full frame, and mirrorless have had the majority of new releases, these things ebb and flow depending on life cycles.

Also what's missing from that "statistic" is the fact that mirrorless, even with the massive new investments and shipping from Canon, Nikon and Panasonic, has not even come close to matching the loss in DSLR numbers by the disruption.

This I'm sure has some executives panicking more than anything.

They have to continue to encourage the DSLR user base in one of two ways that mirrorless is what they should be getting into and really the RF and Z mounts or come up with new F and EF mount products, if there's a significant resistance to change.

So no, it's not just one focus, because that will certainly be a problem. what missing is the significantly sized user bases that still exist for the F and EF mount systems.

One huge advantage canon has is that all EF and EFs lenses work 100% with the RF mount. That is huge.The major reluctance is optical vs electronic viewfinder. As mirrorless cameras are developed by Canon this will be pretty much the only differentiation of note. With Nikon a huge number of their auto focus lenses were made completely obsolete so there would be a large number of users reluctant to have to buy new lenses.
I personally see no issue moving to RF at all for me.Not only the EF and EFs I have will work just fine but I can now use my FD/FL/R lenses with no optical correction needed to get to infinity. In fact the mirrorless cameras will attract a subset of users who want to use old lenses and with Canon now producing a great camera series that all these and other, including old Leica lenses, lenses I see exciting times ahead. Yes, cell phones will cut into sales and that is to be expected as until cell phones appeared there was no low end competition.
canon just needs to adjust and be flexible.

 

[FredEOS]

what's missing is the fact that the major changes from 2018 to 2019 YTD have been because of Nikon and Canon really disrupting the market. And if this is from sony, this is revenue-based, and probably shipped totals or FOB values, which is a little asterisked because both full frame, and mirrorless have had the majority of new releases, these things ebb and flow depending on life cycles.

Also what's missing from that "statistic" is the fact that mirrorless, even with the massive new investments and shipping from Canon, Nikon and Panasonic, has not even come close to matching the loss in DSLR numbers by the disruption.

This I'm sure has some executives panicking more than anything.

They have to continue to encourage the DSLR user base in one of two ways that mirrorless is what they should be getting into and really the RF and Z mounts or come up with new F and EF mount products, if there's a significant resistance to change.

So no, it's not just one focus, because that will certainly be a problem. what missing is the significantly sized user bases that still exist for the F and EF mount systems.

While I totally agree with your remarks, I would add that 1dxii / 5div and 5d / d850 are mature (and perfect) DSLR products with no new competition, they fit well the existing base of DSLR shooters with a full lens kit. It’s just about preferring Canon or Nikon.
Now, from a business perspective these equipped shooters -that won’t change because they have too much love for their DSLR- are not an interesting target for Canon and the competition wanting to SELL new products and new lines of glasses.
Question: if you are a photographer or videographer that wants to upgrade from entry/midrange or just new (even professional) and wants to buy a first camera, are you SERIOUSLY going to buy a DSLR ?
No, most won’t of course.
And as it is all about money (yes, yes), I don’t see Canon going anywhere else than full mirrorless with new RF mount. That’s why I believe that the future professional lineup will be Rxi and not 1dxiii.

 

[FredEOS]

I don't think you can draw that conclusion either.

I think people with misplaced but sincere beliefs could appear to be trolls, but I'd expect those types to be able to back up their claims/beliefs with actual images or data that support those beliefs/claims thereby giving their emotional attachment a basis in (their) reality. In my experience when they do present data or images it is relatively easy to illustrate that it does not show what they think it does and they go back to wherever they came from.

On the other hand trolls don't present anything of even cursory value and just think the louder they shout or the more reaction they get the more impressive their message is, in my experience their only belief is noise = good, reaction = even better, noisy reaction = nirvana.

Hum... no. I’m not trolling, and not trying to make noise. I posted the chart from Sony knowing that I would get some “feedback” about it, but I don’t believe that a respectable Japanese company like Sony is publishing fake information to please themselves and troll the audience...
AND... I also read the Canon 2019 Q2 report (link on this website) published by hum... Canon... where they say: “upcoming cameras are mirrorless including pro models and new RF lenses” ...because... “sales are dropping with our actual lineup and the market is going mirrorless”. It’s in the report, AND it is also not mentioning anywhere any DSLR model.
Is Canon trolling us too ?

 

[BillB]

I don't think you can draw that conclusion either.

I think people with misplaced but sincere beliefs could appear to be trolls, but I'd expect those types to be able to back up their claims/beliefs with actual images or data that support those beliefs/claims thereby giving their emotional attachment a basis in (their) reality. In my experience when they do present data or images it is relatively easy to illustrate that it does not show what they think it does and they go back to wherever they came from.

On the other hand trolls don't present anything of even cursory value and just think the louder they shout or the more reaction they get the more impressive their message is, in my experience their only belief is noise = good, reaction = even better, noisy reaction = nirvana.

Both motivation and rhetorical seem to have something to do with being a troll. I think someone could be sincere, but use trollish rhetoric in arguing their sincerely held belief.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Look at this chart as a CEO and tell me what focus you give to your R&D department?
View attachment 185835

+1 to all the hearty guffaws about the footnote.

The independent data are from CIPA, YTD DSLRs comprise 56% of global ILC shipments. Those are units, I’m sure Sony prefers reporting in value rather than units (makes them look better), DSLRs are 41% of ILC shipments by value.

If I were the CEO, I would know the margin for my products and be able to make an informed decision to drive profits for my shareholders.

But the facts remain – more people buy DSLRs than MILCs, and more people (nearly half the ILC market) are buying Canon ILCs. I have no doubt that Sony leadership knows the value of a customer base comprising half the market, they just don’t discuss it publicly because they’re in third place by that metric.

That’s why I believe that the future professional lineup will be Rxi and not 1dxiii.

It’s ok for you to believe that. It’s also ok for people to believe that the earth is flat, but stating it publicly makes them look foolish.

 

[BillB]

While I totally agree with your remarks, I would add that 1dxii / 5div and 5d / d850 are mature (and perfect) DSLR products with no new competition, they fit well the existing base of DSLR shooters with a full lens kit. It’s just about preferring Canon or Nikon.
Now, from a business perspective these equipped shooters -that won’t change because they have too much love for their DSLR- are not an interesting target for Canon and the competition wanting to SELL new products and new lines of glasses.
Question: if you are a photographer or videographer that wants to upgrade from entry/midrange or just new (even professional) and wants to buy a first camera, are you SERIOUSLY going to buy a DSLR ?
No, most won’t of course.
And as it is all about money (yes, yes), I don’t see Canon going anywhere else than full mirrorless with new RF mount. That’s why I believe that the future professional lineup will be Rxi and not 1dxiii.

You may be right about where things will end up, but it may take a while to convince some professionals on some things like AF tracking, ruggedness and shutter lag, especially if the 1DIII is an outstanding piece of equipment. A lot of photographers may end using (and even buying) both for quite a while.

 

[privatebydesign]

I'd happily run a 1DX MkIII and a high resolution R as a complimentary set of bodies that give me enhanced capabilities.

 

[dcm]

I'd happily run a 1DX MkIII and a high resolution R as a complimentary set of bodies that give me enhanced capabilities.

Waiting for the high resolution R to pair with my 1DX MkII. Decided to skip the 5Ds. Not in a hurry.

 

[privatebydesign]

Hum... no. I’m not trolling, and not trying to make noise. I posted the chart from Sony knowing that I would get some “feedback” about it, but I don’t believe that a respectable Japanese company like Sony is publishing fake information to please themselves and troll the audience...
AND... I also read the Canon 2019 Q2 report (link on this website) published by hum... Canon... where they say: “upcoming cameras are mirrorless including pro models and new RF lenses” ...because... “sales are dropping with our actual lineup and the market is going mirrorless”. It’s in the report, AND it is also not mentioning anywhere any DSLR model.
Is Canon trolling us too ?

I wasn't alluding to any specific post or poster, merely hypothesizing on possible posters potential proclivities. (Do I win CR alliteration of the day award?)

 

[canonnews]

Hum... no. I’m not trolling, and not trying to make noise. I posted the chart from Sony knowing that I would get some “feedback” about it, but I don’t believe that a respectable Japanese company like Sony is publishing fake information to please themselves and troll the audience...
AND... I also read the Canon 2019 Q2 report (link on this website) published by hum... Canon... where they say: “upcoming cameras are mirrorless including pro models and new RF lenses” ...because... “sales are dropping with our actual lineup and the market is going mirrorless”. It’s in the report, AND it is also not mentioning anywhere any DSLR model.
Is Canon trolling us too ?

they don't report "fake" information, but it is misleading.
Canon, Nikon and Olympus all report their unit volume for ILC's. and make specific mention of their marketshare with respects to unit volume.
Sony a while back decided that they look better identifying themselves by overall revenue. They are the only camera company to relate their marketshare to do so.
So when three report one way, and one reports another. What would you call it?

 

[Jasonmc89]

I did try the EOS R, and while it's a great little camera, it did take some getting used to. Have to reprogram that muscle memory. I'm not sure I'd be comfortable replacing my 5D iv with it yet, one because I'm not familiar enough with it yet, but two because the 5D iv does have some features that the R does not. If I break my 5D I'd probably look at the R as a cheaper replacement.

I'm not sure being left in the dust is a real risk in this transition though. DSLRs continue to work, and I think you can categorize the key benefits of mirrorless as several features which increase the likelihood of getting a shot. They all increase odds of success, to some extent, by providing features which help the shooter perform quickly and accurately. That can be a big help for some types of photography, but when your niche requires slow and thoughtful action, those mirrorless features don't add so much to success. I don't find myself missing a lot of shots because I can't keep focus or I'm getting my exposure wrong, or I can't see the screen, or I can't react fast enough. For people like me, mirrorless doesn't seem to add that much.

Yes, mirrorless comes with some great new features and technology, but it doesn't make the image for you, and it doesn't ease the process for some types of photography. For now, I prefer the optical viewfinder and haven't seen the need in my photography for those key features.

Well said.

 

[privatebydesign]

Both motivation and rhetorical seem to have something to do with being a troll. I think someone could be sincere, but use trollish rhetoric in arguing their sincerely held belief.

Point taken.

 

[privatebydesign]

Waiting for the high resolution R to pair with my 1DX MkII. Decided to skip the 5Ds. Not in a hurry.

Exactly the same situation. After that high resolution R I might look at the 1DX MkIII but who knows, I'll be old enough to think about retiring by then and just enjoy the M5 MkII

 

[dcm]

Hmmmm. Also looking forward to replacing my M3 to go with my existing M5. I like the two camera setup for hiking and travel. Already easing into retirement.

 

[addola]

DIGIC 8+ Processor? It must be a new, more capable processor than the non+ DIGIC8, so it's interesting to see what other cameras would get it

 

[JohnyT]

OK, here’s my thoughts on the obvious lack of EOS M high performance lenses:
What if Canon would adapt the EOS R lenses to the new M bodies?
Think about an intermediate adapter were included in the M body design that would adapt the body for the EOS M lens, and another adapter that would accept an EOS R lens?
The best of all worlds! EOS M, R and EF lenses on the EOS M bodies. Could be done!

 

[Yasko]

And here we go again, the sensor talk.
Eventually we will see a minor upgrade in the dr/iso as always (if at all with 32 MP).
Just telling from experience. But hey! Let‘s see.

 

[mchris]

OK, here’s my thoughts on the obvious lack of EOS M high performance lenses:
What if Canon would adapt the EOS R lenses to the new M bodies?
Think about an intermediate adapter were included in the M body design that would adapt the body for the EOS M lens, and another adapter that would accept an EOS R lens?
The best of all worlds! EOS M, R and EF lenses on the EOS M bodies. Could be done!

They could do that but they need a new M body with built-in RF protocol. As far as I know, the EF-EOS M adaprer and EF-RF adapter, they don't translate the signals. They just pass the signals and the bodies have double protocols EF-M and EF or RF and EF to work with the EF lenses. They can include a third (RF) protocol to M bodies and then there is the problem of flange distance. This can be solved with optics or with a movable sensor.

 

[BillB]

OK, here’s my thoughts on the obvious lack of EOS M high performance lenses:
What if Canon would adapt the EOS R lenses to the new M bodies?
Think about an intermediate adapter were included in the M body design that would adapt the body for the EOS M lens, and another adapter that would accept an EOS R lens?
The best of all worlds! EOS M, R and EF lenses on the EOS M bodies. Could be done!

Flange distance of R is 20mm and flange distance of M is 18mm. The 2 mm difference is not enough for an adapter. There are a bunch of EF and EF-s lenses that can be adapted to M. We have to make do with those.