Teardown: The Canon EOS R5 gets an autopsy
- Thread starter Canon Rumors Guy
- Start date
There are reports that CFExpress cards heat up when in the slot even when not being used. I haven't got an R5 and can't verify this one way or another so perhaps someone who does can reply whether this is true or not.
If not it's just some careless coding by Canon where they're detecting card present for cutoff limits rather than card is set for recording.
If not it's just some careless coding by Canon where they're detecting card present for cutoff limits rather than card is set for recording.
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I'd guess aluminium vs copper is far down the chain of limiting factors, conservative measures in firmware prob being much greater, besides that sheet is so thin it would doubtful make as much difference and the TIM type and thickness they use probably has more limiting effect I suspect. Nowhere for the heat to go and is so thin and of negligible mass prob here to stay though as doesn't look like much space. Some Canons have a lot more room behind the sensor and no IBIS and I've seen active cooling mods for astro where a large heatsink/cold finger with or without heatpipes etc depending on space is installed and active cooling applied at some position. Keeps weather sealing if done right but doubt you could do it with IBIS even if had the space.
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I’m fine with the cutoffs. This isn’t a cinema body. It isn’t an A-Cam or B-Cam body. This is for specialty situations, or for those of us that mix a little video with photo work. I prefer Canon protecting the longevity and reliability of the camera and sensor. I like knowing that this will be the same on every job.
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That and ergo of two of my main reasons for choosing and sticking with Canon and I feel most folks probably appreciate their conservative nature. However they [most userbase] are not the ones who make the most noise. Don't get me wrong I do think they [canon] have their faults but the R5 debacle isn't one of them (on the hardware front anyway, you could argue how it was marketed and teased didn't outright cause it but didn't help things).
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This thing is jam packed with tech. To truly solve the heating issue in this form factor probably requires technological advancement in semiconductors, not much Canon could do by the looks of it. Sure they could engineer something crazy but the issue will be solved in time by the technology itself. Once semiconductors get to 5nm we'll probably see cooler running chips.
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I was wondering where the thermal sensors are. If the CFexpress card is generating substantial heat, maybe pulling the card and cooling it would speed up the recovery time. I would like to see a test that measures the CFexpress card temp when the R5 thermal sensors trigger a shut down.
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I can't get through a single thing from EOSHD. That guy is so full of ego and states his opinions as facts without sufficient logic or substantiation. Having a following doesn't make someone right. He typically makes emotional stabs at anyone in his forum who dares to disagree with him, however civilly they are discussing a matter.
As for making assumptions on the teardown and materials of R5? Are any of these talking heads or random people with angry opinions (because they can't buy a cinema camera for $4000) actually electronics engineers or have ever done a thermal analysis? If so, I expect more rigor than they are presenting. I have plenty of knowledge in this area and will leave it at that, but I'm not here making speculations despite my knowledge. Unless I know the power dissipation of all components in all modes, the thermal resistivity in each material, and run a 3D thermal analysis myself, I know better than to guess. There is no point acting like we know what the problem fully is. Sure, testing might yield some results, but people acting like Canon are idiots are being unfair....The assumption that armchair engineering is better than a dedicated team that cares about the product at Canon is ridiculous.
Regarding calling for legal action because people cannot read a spec sheet? Good luck in court with that weak argument and your 'righteous' anger. Pretty hard to make a legal case when you were told prior to purchase there are limits with the camera video modes, and that other camera activity could also downgrade the recording time.
Yes, if all you care about is a dedicated video camera that does all this incredible footage in a tiny MILC body, it is not for you, grab a Sony and enjoy life and 12MP stills. You are also unrealistic for thinking a full frame high MP camera with IBIS in a weather sealed body would NOT have some heat issues doing all that. As the mirrorless 5D5 this camera delivers incredible stills and light duty video. I'm having a blast with it and already producing great images.
Certain people always focus on the negative and are always victims no matter how much logic is applied.
As for making assumptions on the teardown and materials of R5? Are any of these talking heads or random people with angry opinions (because they can't buy a cinema camera for $4000) actually electronics engineers or have ever done a thermal analysis? If so, I expect more rigor than they are presenting. I have plenty of knowledge in this area and will leave it at that, but I'm not here making speculations despite my knowledge. Unless I know the power dissipation of all components in all modes, the thermal resistivity in each material, and run a 3D thermal analysis myself, I know better than to guess. There is no point acting like we know what the problem fully is. Sure, testing might yield some results, but people acting like Canon are idiots are being unfair....The assumption that armchair engineering is better than a dedicated team that cares about the product at Canon is ridiculous.
Regarding calling for legal action because people cannot read a spec sheet? Good luck in court with that weak argument and your 'righteous' anger. Pretty hard to make a legal case when you were told prior to purchase there are limits with the camera video modes, and that other camera activity could also downgrade the recording time.
Yes, if all you care about is a dedicated video camera that does all this incredible footage in a tiny MILC body, it is not for you, grab a Sony and enjoy life and 12MP stills. You are also unrealistic for thinking a full frame high MP camera with IBIS in a weather sealed body would NOT have some heat issues doing all that. As the mirrorless 5D5 this camera delivers incredible stills and light duty video. I'm having a blast with it and already producing great images.
Certain people always focus on the negative and are always victims no matter how much logic is applied.
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Not really since all TIM does is increase efficiency of heat transfer vs no interface metal<air>metal where you get a buildup. In this case there is no significant thermal mass to transfer heat into nor space to get something in there.
Adding fan means you need more airflow room and vents in body for intake and exhausts in other words turn it into a cine cam and lose weather sealing. Canon make those already, problem solved. The better solution IMHO at the risk of sounding like Apple is make users realise they are expecting it to be something it isn't. It is a nice optional extra with limits made more severe so as not to harm the longevity or primary functions of niche it is aimed at (a stills cam that has amazing lightweight hybrid vid capabilities. Need primarily heavy lifting vid centric work get something else).
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Thermal pads(once Canon seems to be using(compared to Hitachi HM03 and other graphite pads) are not a good medium to transfer heat, for low power components like RAM, VRM they are fine for higher power components they literally are $hit compared to decent thermal paste.
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They were also told it could be used as a backup camera. Now maybe it's me but I can't imagine someone grabbing a camera that's been assigned a backup role and then running around and shooting a bunch of stills with it, so even the "it heats up shooting stills" complaint seems a bit off to me even though it's factual, because why would you be shooting stills with your backup camera anyway?
Of course when someone pointed out "backup camera" then the kvetching moved on to needing to footnote it.
These people are determined to whine and bitch about this thing because it is not something that it isn't and was never meant to be.
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The author of the article plans to go to court if Canon doesn't do a recall.
EOSHD author: "Canon promised us 8k video"
Judge: "Did they warn you about the heat limitations in an official press release?"
EOSHD author: "Yes and I blogged about it. So I bought one and complained to Canon."
Judge: "Did you buy one after you read the press release?"
EOSHD author: "Yes and I tried 8k video and it doesn't work when it's hot. I demand a recall"
Judge: ...
My theory is still that the temperature limit is there to protect the CFexpress card. Even if it's not being recorded to the internal temperature can be enough to corrupt data. There's so much processing going on in this small form factor.
EOSHD author: "Canon promised us 8k video"
Judge: "Did they warn you about the heat limitations in an official press release?"
EOSHD author: "Yes and I blogged about it. So I bought one and complained to Canon."
Judge: "Did you buy one after you read the press release?"
EOSHD author: "Yes and I tried 8k video and it doesn't work when it's hot. I demand a recall"
Judge: ...
My theory is still that the temperature limit is there to protect the CFexpress card. Even if it's not being recorded to the internal temperature can be enough to corrupt data. There's so much processing going on in this small form factor.
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I expected better from you canonrumours. "Why does none of this matter when recording externally?" Because when you record to an atomos for example, its pure HDMI out. The cameras processor is no longer compressing/processing the video for storage.
Its why the atomos records to prores or whatever other codecs that comes with it. Because it is the EXTERNAL RECORDER DOING THE PROCESSING OF WHATEVER COMES OFF THE SENSOR. I thought this was basic knowledge for anyone intending to use the camera for videography.
Why then does the camera overheat faster with CF cards installed even externally? There could be a bug where the cf card continues to heatup even when not in use, just like how nvme ssds heat up sometimes even when you arent using them with your PCs. I believe canon COULD possibly fix this in firmware? Although im not 100% on whether this is possible since im not an expert. So perhaps Canonrumours could do without spreading misinformation if they dont even know why cameras dont overheat when recording externally?
Its why the atomos records to prores or whatever other codecs that comes with it. Because it is the EXTERNAL RECORDER DOING THE PROCESSING OF WHATEVER COMES OFF THE SENSOR. I thought this was basic knowledge for anyone intending to use the camera for videography.
Why then does the camera overheat faster with CF cards installed even externally? There could be a bug where the cf card continues to heatup even when not in use, just like how nvme ssds heat up sometimes even when you arent using them with your PCs. I believe canon COULD possibly fix this in firmware? Although im not 100% on whether this is possible since im not an expert. So perhaps Canonrumours could do without spreading misinformation if they dont even know why cameras dont overheat when recording externally?
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