The Canon EOS R1 is coming, here are a few things to expect

[TravelerNick]

On the F/11 lenses. Every increase in price shrinks the potential buyer pool. At the F/11 prices you can talk yourself into buying it and using it rarely.

At twice the price you start moving into the territory that only people who really think they need it will buy. That means all the fixed costs are spread over the smaller buyer base.

It's not just about price either. At F/8 the lens will be bigger and heavier. Further reducing the potential market.

I have virtually zero interest in anything over 200mm (and even that takes some convincing) but I'd likely buy the 600mm F/11 at the price. I'd even likely carry it.

An F/8 lens that is basically aimed at amateur wildlife shooters that don't want to spend the money on the exotic longer lenses but want something one stop faster than the F/11 is a pretty small market item. Niche items are rarely cheap.

Aren't there used EF lenses that can be adapted for similar prices? Canon also needs to compete with that further shrinking the pool of buyers.

 

[StevenA]

I'm not sure where you're coming from Steven, but you have just discounted and written off the years and years of practice, training, experimenting, visionary talents and skills, climbing on your belly through thorns to get the shot, determination, and plain hard work many have dedicated to perfecting their craft and creating images no one - I mean NO ONE - else could replicate. Just ask your daughter and she'll make you eat your words.

I haven't discounted anything. Modern tech is doing that - blame it. And actually, because of the advancements in cameras is the very reason my daughter picked up film. She said there was no challenge to digital and gains more satisfaction from getting an image on film.

Certainly we can agree film is more challenging? Thus, as I said, modern camera tech is blurring the lines between the novice and the professional.

 

[kaihp]

Certainly we can agree film is more challenging? Thus, as I said, modern camera tech is blurring the lines between the novice and the professional.

I'm not @garrev but I definitely agree that film was/is more challenging.

Modern cameras helps novices like me (going from a 5D3 to a 1Dx for autosports immediately doubled my keeper rate), but when panning technique comes in, I am still woefully inadequate. I may have access to same equipment as a pro, but but results are far behind. The fleshy bit behind the camera decides the images (still).

 

[StevenA]

I'm not @garrev but I definitely agree that film was/is more challenging.

Modern cameras helps novices like me (going from a 5D3 to a 1Dx for autosports immediately doubled my keeper rate), but when panning technique comes in, I am still woefully inadequate. I may have access to same equipment as a pro, but but results are far behind. The fleshy bit behind the camera decides the images (still).

Yes, Agreed, But I wonder what your panning keeper rate would be using film, instead of a 1Dx?

 

[kaihp]

Yes, Agreed, But I wonder what your panning keeper rate would be using film, instead of a 1Dx?

Same as with the 1Dx. None

 

[StevenA]

Same as with the 1Dx. None

Haha. Fair enough.

 

[gunship01]

I've no doubt there are people that will never be satisfied with the number of pixels a camera's sensor has and will always want more. For me, 45mp on the R5 is a sweet spot. Anything bigger would just slow down my process. For those suggesting 60mp or higher, that's a lot of mp for full frame sensor, may as well move into medium format if that's a big requirement.

Agreed Tom. Well put.
I'm with the group aligned with the ideological business aspect of 1) incremental development (not too much technological advancement at once so as to keep the customers aligned with the product and not jump ship) and 2) making the R1 emulate the competition's Z9 in specs and price (the final product being 45 MP and around $6K).

 

[SwissFrank]

So far nothing in the R line has tempted me.

Gosh, Steve, IBIS? a 50/1.2 with literally ten times the resolution of the previous model? The R5's ability to nail focus on humans to birds? Or just another several stops of DR and ISO speed improvement?

I'll meet you half-way. I like shooting landscapes and cityscapes and want maximum detail in my shots and don't need AF or IBIS to do those, just a tripod. And I'd LOVE 100MP, but I wonder if the lenses for the camera line mentioned can actually resolve that finely? The Canon 50/1.2 can, I believe. If not, then we get a high-resolution photo of a poorly focused detail, and that's not compelling to me.

 

[GoldWing]

I "hear" that Nikon has over 400,000 pre-orders for the Z9 already as of last week.

How many of those people are not interested in a 45MP R1?

If the R1 is not 80 to 85MP Canon is cutting off their nose to spite their face. So easy to change frame rate by adjusting file size.

When was the last time Canon had 400,000 pre-orders on a camera?

The R1 might be Canon's last chance. And how do our current Canon inventory of $12,000 f/2.8 400mm , compare to the new Nikon 2.8 400MM with a built in TC?

If the R1 is 80 to 85MP our agency is prepared to replace every 1DX, 1DXII and 1DXMKIII in inventory as well as invest in new optimized glass for the RF platform. While the few million we'll be spending might not drive Canon's final decision. There are too many like us on the agency side, sports team, league, magazine, digital producers and even enthusiasts to realize that the initial base could exceed Nikon's 400,000 orders. More important, look at the cross-over from other genres. Multiple fashion, wildlife and wedding photographers have said they would move to a platform with that resolution.

Of the 400,000 Z9 pre-orders.... How many people would cancel their Z9's, if Canon announced the R1 has a significantly better resolution to offer?

Canon needs to step up well before 3rd 1/4 2022... Or the ship will have sailed......

 

[neuroanatomist]

I "hear" that Nikon has over 400,000 pre-orders for the Z9 already as of last week.

I “hear” the earth is flat and the moon is made of green cheese.

Got any actual evidence?

I didn’t think so.

 

[stevelee]

Gosh, Steve, IBIS? a 50/1.2 with literally ten times the resolution of the previous model? The R5's ability to nail focus on humans to birds? Or just another several stops of DR and ISO speed improvement?

I'll meet you half-way. I like shooting landscapes and cityscapes and want maximum detail in my shots and don't need AF or IBIS to do those, just a tripod. And I'd LOVE 100MP, but I wonder if the lenses for the camera line mentioned can actually resolve that finely? The Canon 50/1.2 can, I believe. If not, then we get a high-resolution photo of a poorly focused detail, and that's not compelling to me.

I have very little use for a 50mm prime. I think I have used my f/1.4 on one occasion since I got the 6D2, when I knew I’d be taking a picture of a small group in available light. If I take anything in that focal length range, my kit zoom works fine otherwise. All my pictures of humans or birds appear sharp. One guy in the small group shot appeared slightly fuzzy because he was a bit farther away than others. The cure for that would have been to stop down slightly more, not having the camera focus on somebody else’s eye or focusing on one of his eyes and making everybody else fuzzy. As it was, when I resized for use in the neighborhood newsletter and for the web, he didn’t look fuzzy, at least not so anybody would notice.

All the things you list are nice, and I am happy they are available for people who want or need them. I have not perceived the need. Hence the lack of temptation. I am thinking of my own picture taking, which is not the same as that of a lot of folks here, apparently.

The reviews I have seen of the Fuji GX lenses tend to rave about them, some more so than others, but all really good. I would do more reading up before I decided on the two lenses I would buy, with usefulness for what I want to do the main concern. The kinds of things I would shoot with the 100S would not need IBIS or fast autofocus or birds’ eyes, just a tripod and some patience, not much unlike you.

Yesterday may be instructive. Yesterday was beautiful. The 7.8 acres of woods behind my house are looking very nice now with increasing fall colors. It has been a very busy weekend, so when I got home after lunch yesterday, I was bushed and just sat down and dozed off rather than taking the camera out into the woods. If I had had another $10,000+ of gear, I still would have sat down and dozed off. I think Wednesday will still be nice, so maybe that will be a good day to go out and shoot pictures with what I have now. If lunch with a friend tomorrow doesn’t go on too long, I could start scoping out a trail in the afternoon. I’ll put the battery on to charge tonight, just in case.

The moral of all that is that if I don’t go out to shoot over the next couple days or if it turns out to be not that much fun, then I can reasonably conclude that I’m not really that interested in expanding my landscape photography, and the temptation for that equipment will be significantly attenuated. OTOH, if my reaction is “Gee, I wish I had another 75 megapixels for this great shot,” my credit card could take a good hit before Friday.

 

[SwissFrank]

The R1 might be Canon's last chance.

O my gosh, Cannon is DOOOOOOMED!

Seriously, haven't they been #1 in camera sales since 1991 or so? I think even if they slip to #2 they'd be fine but I think last sales figures showed them increasing their market share. Most people don't even WANT a 1 model, too big, too heavy.

 

[stevelee]

I did go out on trail in the woods behind my house yesterday. I took the 16–35mm zoom, but no tripod. I was really intending just to scope out things for this afternoon. I was surprised how green the trees there still were, so I didn’t go back today. I took a few pictures anyway, and a couple of them looked like another 75MP might be in order. But really, stopping down a bit and using a tripod would likely have cured what ails those pictures. I wasn’t being very careful even as it was.

The trees you can see from my bedroom, living room, and deck looked even nicer today than yesterday. Even the maples out front are looking good. So late in the afternoon I took a few pictures from the deck. Here is one out back, and one of a tree out front seen from between the houses.

 

[canonmike]

If a 7D or 7D II was the right tool for the job given a person’s budget, why not just keep using it? It’s not like it suddenly quit doing what you wanted it to. I can appreciate GAS as much as the next guy, and the idea will sound weird to folks on a board dedicated to rumors about the coming latest and greatest, I realize.

My unscientific unrandom anecdotal sample of folks using or aspiring to those cameras have 100% been people with sons playing high school football. Unless sales of pictures to other parents is too lucrative to give up, many of those owners suddenly have no long term special need for it once the son graduates.

My unscientific unrandom anecdotal sample of folks using or aspiring to those cameras have 100% been people with sons playing high school football. Unless sales of pictures to other parents is too lucrative to give up, many of those owners suddenly have no long term special need for it once the son graduates

Guilty, your honor, except it was when my grandson graduated, not my son, after which my 7D sat on my bookshelf for a couple of yrs, before I ultimately sold it. Your comment was spot on.

 

[AutoMatters]

In my opinion, a "global shutter" (offering significantly reduced high ISO/low light noise, plus significantly increased dynamic range) would provide the most likely incentive for serious photographers to choose/upgrade to a Canon R1 over an R3 or R5. I would very seriously consider such an R1. That R1 would be too tempting to pass up.

Canon, are you reading this?

Jan

 

[AutoMatters]

I had one of those Sony Mavica mini-cd cameras a long time ago. Interesting camera.

Believe it or not, I still have mine, along with a bunch of mini-discs with photos on them.

 

[AutoMatters]

Launching the R1 with mindblowing specs and 50mpix sensor ASAP is the only smart thing to do now…


Please take notice of this (my) point of view:

Canon made the biggest mistake ever to use a 24mpix sensor in their flagship whilst competition is already using 45 or 50mpix. A result of years and years of sleeping R&D department. Canon was top of the list, who could possibly beat them? Best camera’s, best lenses, what could go wrong? No need for mind blowing new development, just some ISO and FPS improvement and pro’s would upgrade their bodies once in every four years.

And then competition (Sony) caused some earthquakes in the camera scene.

That is why they suddenly called this camera the R3 instead of R1 and came up with some BS story about press and sports photographers needing smaller files to transfer. If that was the real case then they would have made an option for shooting Medium Raw (half size) and Full Raw. Believe me, the R3 ís the R1, but Canon got the surprise of their lives when Sony popped up with the A1 with 50mpix and then quickly named it R3.

Just common sense …

Interesting conjecture...

 

[AutoMatters]

And think twice when buying the R3, by the time the R1 hits the market, nobody wants an R3 anymore. Maybe some hobby planespotter, but your 6000 euro investment will be shattered in just a year.

I disagree. The R3 should be very well suited as is to my motorsports photography needs.
Jan

 

[GoldWing]

Just had the Nikon rep come in with the Z9 and everyone at our agency was just blown away by the IQ, focus, DR and ergonomics.

Our goal was to get 15fps at double the resolution of the 1DXMKIII. The Z9 is going to do exceptional in the pro-market.

For the first time in 15 years, our agency has put the budget to Nikon again.

 

[privatebydesign]

Just had the Nikon rep come in with the Z9 and everyone at our agency was just blown away by the IQ, focus, DR and ergonomics.

Our goal was to get 15fps at double the resolution of the 1DXMKIII. The Z9 is going to do exceptional in the pro-market.

For the first time in 15 years, our agency has put the budget to Nikon again.

Great, does that mean we don't need to listen to you droning on anymore about how sh!t Canon are?

Now you can live over on NikonRumors and tell them about how great Canon used to be and how the Z9 would be perfect if it didn't have a flip out screen because as pros you can't stop yourselves breaking them off all the time, after all pro cameras don't have movable screens.....