The Canon EOS R1 may not come until the 2nd half of 2023 [CR2]

entoman

wildlife photography
May 8, 2015
1,012
1,185
UK
That's your opinion - not mine.

I don't want an R5 or R3 in an RP body for an RP price. I am realistic.
The problem for me with the RP was/is that the sensor was outdated at the RP release, and the EVF was/is much too slow.
I was fine with the rest for its price.
The time since its release didn't make it better. And I don't want an APS-C backup camera any more.
So if they bring a real successor - fine. If not, I'll spend my money on something else (not Canon)
You're fully entitled to disagree. I'll be very surprised if Canon bring out a FF successor to the RP, for most prospective buyers I think the R10 will take its place. So you may very well find yourself spending your money on "something else (not Canon)", and if that's your choice, I wish you well with it.
 

Jasonmc89

EOS RP
Feb 7, 2019
405
473
UK
Nope!

What you (and I) want is not what the average RP or R10 buyer wants. Unless persuaded otherwise by influencers or salespersons, they won't care whether the camera has a APS-C sensor or a FF sensor. What they are looking for is an up to date, well specified camera that will take good enough pictures to satisfy them, and an APS-C sensor is more than good enough for that. I actually know of a couple of pro wildlife (macro) photographers who have switched from FF cameras to an even smaller sensor, i.e. M43, and others who are seriously considering the same move.

FF is only really necessary for people who (like myself) often shoot in low light and/or want to exploit shallow depth of field. Few novices fit in that category.

There was no contradiction in my earlier comments - the RP is a nice camera and continues to sell well, but no model lasts forever. People crave for the latest gear, and for novices the R10 fits the bill extremely well and I predict that it will within a few months outsell the RP.

The R10 also makes an excellent and affordable lightweight backup or second body for more serious photographers, a better choice IMO than an RP. I'll bet that for typical usage most owners would be unable to tell the difference between an RP image and a R10 image. Critical users will in any case have the sense to use a modern denoise program to overcome any minor increase in noise resulting from a smaller sensor.
M43 is SO big in the macro world right now. I know 2 people who switched to Olympus recently. Their built in focus stacking, combined with the increased depth of field makes them awesome for macro!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

entoman

wildlife photography
May 8, 2015
1,012
1,185
UK
M43 is SO big in the macro world right now. I know 2 people who switched to Olympus recently. Their built in focus stacking, combined with the increased depth of field makes them awesome for macro!
Yes, I'd definitely consider an OM1 as a secondary system. The in-camera focus stacking and merging is a fantastic feature, especially when combined with the fast burst speed and what is probably the best image stabilisation on the market. Also there is Pro Capture, which is incredibly useful for capturing fast moving insects (or birds) at the "decisive moment". Zuiko lenses are also extremely sharp. On top of that consider that Olympus/OM Systems probably has the best weather-sealing of any brand. The only real limitation is the low megapixel count, which means you have to be pretty accurate with framing as there's little opportunity for anything other than minimal cropping.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

Maximilian

The dark side - I've been there
CR Pro
Nov 7, 2013
3,989
4,236
Germany
You're fully entitled to disagree. I'll be very surprised if Canon bring out a FF successor to the RP, for most prospective buyers I think the R10 will take its place. So you may very well find yourself spending your money on "something else (not Canon)", and if that's your choice, I wish you well with it.
I think I already stated, that I am (and @bergstrom and maybe some more) maybe not a big enough market for a FF successor of an RP.
So maybe there won't be any - pity.

But I read your posts as contradictory because you argue one time into one and then into another direction.
First you argue (maybe Canon has decided) to put an R10 in the place of a (real) PR successor, which it isn't.
Then you claim that APS-C and FF sensors are not much differing. And you seem to want something more acc. to my spec list than the R10 offers.
And when I - buy empirical experience - claim your arguments wrong (APS-C versus FF sensor) you switch back to market segment argumentation which have already been settled.
Looks like a weathercock in a whirlwind to me...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users

mxwphoto

R6 and be there
Jun 20, 2013
56
89
M43 is SO big in the macro world right now. I know 2 people who switched to Olympus recently. Their built in focus stacking, combined with the increased depth of field makes them awesome for macro!
That is called using the right tool for the right job.

Want photos and video without the bulk, top end cellphone.
Want increased DOF for macro and in camera processing, m4/3.
Want longer reach for wildlife without huge added bulk, m4/3 or APS-C.
Want the absolute creamiest bokeh on your portraits, FF or larger with a fast lens.
Want the perfect all in one camera, in your dreams.
 
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: 5 users

Bishop80

EOS M6 Mark II
Jan 4, 2014
79
84
The R1 may not come until the 2nd half of 2023, but when can we expect the credible spec rumors to begin?

:unsure::)
 

entoman

wildlife photography
May 8, 2015
1,012
1,185
UK
Macro world with controlled light conditions or macro world with available light?
I'll do the latter. I'll prefer bigger sensors.
One of the pro guys I know who now shoots M43 macro focus-stacking, mostly shoots with a complex home-fabricated twin-flash setup. The other one shoots always by ambient light - when stacked images are merged, most of the luminance noise is cancelled out, and denoising software is so damn good nowadays that it's not really a problem anyway.

If I could afford to run 2 systems I'd certainly consider M43 as a secondary system for the in-camera stacking and merging, and the Pro Capture, both of which would benefit my own photography (mostly insects and birds). Like most people I upgraded years ago from APS-C to FF for the low-noise benefits (and shallow d.o.f.) but these are largely negated by modern denoise software. The only fly-in-the-ointment for me is the low megapixel count (pixel-shift is hopeless for moving subjects).

Features like Pro Capture and in-camera stack merging are unlikely to appear in FF systems for some while, as to work well they demand very fast readouts, very fast burst speeds, and huge buffers. I think the tide will turn and in the not too distant future APS-C and M43 will see a major revival.
 

mxwphoto

R6 and be there
Jun 20, 2013
56
89
My R1 wishlist:
Quad pixel all cross type AF
BSI 38mpx HDR dual gain sensor with 1/500 flash sync and 16 stops dynamic range
60fps electronic
20fps mechanical
8k 120p, 4k 240p 1080 480p sensor width readout
Dual identical card slots (for whatever format that can handle the video load)
Huge buffer for 500 raw files
2 second pre record buffer
Pixel level adjustable motion sensor for auto trigger capture
Sensor shift star capture like with Pentax
Comes in 2 flavors, small size and a R1s(uper) version with permanent grip
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users

entoman

wildlife photography
May 8, 2015
1,012
1,185
UK
My R1 wishlist:
Quad pixel all cross type AF
BSI 38mpx HDR dual gain sensor with 1/500 flash sync and 16 stops dynamic range
60fps electronic
20fps mechanical
8k 120p, 4k 240p 1080 480p sensor width readout
Dual identical card slots (for whatever format that can handle the video load)
Huge buffer for 500 raw files
2 second pre record buffer
Pixel level adjustable motion sensor for auto trigger capture
Sensor shift star capture like with Pentax
Comes in 2 flavors, small size and a R1s(uper) version with permanent grip
Wish-lists are one thing, reality is something else. ;)

My guess is that the R1 will have a lower specification than the Z9 and a considerably higher price...

The main differences will probably be that Canon retains mechanical shutter and features an improved version of the eye-selection AF found in the R3. I also wouldn't be massively surprised if it featured the new-style thumbwheel from the R7. Just guessing.

Either way an R1 isn't on my wish-list - for me it would be overkill. The R5 suits me just fine, although as stated above, I'd consider M43 as a *secondary* system for the in-camera stack merging and Pro capture, which IMO are unlikely to feature in the R1 or any other FF camera for the foreseeable future.
 

bergstrom

Photographer
Feb 23, 2015
428
285
Only the 'a' and 'P' are taken, so they have a bunch of the alphabet left as well :)

God, I wish Canon made their cameras in Hungary. There's 46 letters in the alphabet. Only our great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great grandchildren will see the final R version coming to market.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
CR Pro
Jul 21, 2010
27,247
6,778
R5's can break a marriage.
"Marriages don't break up on account of an R5. It's just a symptom that something else is wrong."
(those who get the reference will know the R5 is not a likely subject of the response...)
 

InchMetric

Switched from Nikon. Still zooming the wrong way.
CR Pro
Jun 22, 2021
222
251
Of course the RP will be replaced eventually. It just may not be called "RP." The cost differential between full frame and crop sensors is no longer what it once was. It makes just as much sense for Canon to produce low cost full frame bodies as it does to produce low cost crop sensor bodies. In fact, it may make more sense, since buyers of the full frame body will be able to use their lenses on more expensive models without having to crop.

I think Canon would like to get back to the old days when people could seamlessly trade up from the lowest cost SLR to the F1 without having to invest in new lenses to get the same field of view.

Honestly, I felt the R7 made sense since it is clearly aimed at people seeking more "reach." But I'm perplexed by the R10.
Most insightful post I’ve seen here I’m a long time. Every single sentence bears scrutiny.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

entoman

wildlife photography
May 8, 2015
1,012
1,185
UK
I think Canon would like to get back to the old days when people could seamlessly trade up from the lowest cost SLR to the F1 without having to invest in new lenses to get the same field of view.

Yes, that would make sense for consumers, but Canon are in the business of making money, so they might actually prefer people to buy a whole new set of lenses...
Honestly, I felt the R7 made sense since it is clearly aimed at people seeking more "reach." But I'm perplexed by the R10.
Agree regarding R7. As for the R10, it serves either as a cheap spare body for established RF users, or as a base model for novices, i.e. the market previously the realm of the RP. Don't get me wrong, I like the RP, but I think within a few months it'll get crowded out by the R10, and then the RP will be quietly dropped.
 

The3o5FlyGuy

eatin'
Jun 8, 2017
50
74
Miami
www.jessedelice.com
The R6 and the R5 has already caused the price of the 1Dx Mark III to plummet. I was hoping with the R7 and the R1 dropping this year the price of a used 1Dx might drop even further. I wanted it because of some of its video features and because i wanted that unlimited buffer. I often hit the buffer even with the fastest memory cards on my R6.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

sanj

EOS R5
Jan 22, 2012
4,118
993
Cook it well Canon. Take your time. Meanwhile, R5C does it all (mostly)...
 

SnowMiku

EOS 90D
Oct 4, 2020
181
134
It doesn't need to be FF ;)
The 24MP APS-C sensor in the R10 will produce images at least as good as the ageing 26MP FF sensor of the RP.
.... and the R10 is a far better overall camera, with the latest AF tech.
Perfect for novices or those on a low budget.
I wouldn't consider the R10 as a direct replacement for the RP due to the Full Frame RP vs R10 APS-C sensor.
With the RP you can get closer to the subject, for example portraits and get a more shallow depth of field, with the APS-C you will have to step back from the subject to get the same shot, with a deeper depth of field.
Or you could use an 80mm lens on an RP and 50mm lens on the R10 and shoot at the same distance, but the RP will have the more shallow depth of field at the same aperture due to the bigger lens.