The Next EOS M? [CR1]
- Thread starter Canon Rumors Guy
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Does the phrase "perfuming the pig" come to mind. Canon was way late to the market, took it's strike and whiffed terribly. They have the money to try again, but the train has left the station. By the way,
my Fuji XE and several lenses look a lot like what Canon should have offered.
my Fuji XE and several lenses look a lot like what Canon should have offered.
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What I don't understand is when everyone here claims the full frame can't be done, why not use the same basic body of the 6D without the mirror/viewfinder? No it would not be pocket-able - my sony nex 5n is not pocket-able, but it would reduce weight and size while still functioning just like mk111.
I wouldn't go to a job without two bodies in my camera bag I just would prefer if that second or third backup camera while having the exact same sensor characteristics of the main body could also be designed in it's own unique way. In this case as small as possible for those times when I want to go hiking, street scenes, video work, mounting in unusual places and don't want a full size dslr. (funny I use to strictly use a 4x5)
After using the sony nex I've come to one conclusion there are two size cameras one is point n shoot pocket-able and the second needs to go in a bag.
Here's my analogy (I'm not a golfer or a gopher) it seems Canon keeps making all these different cameras to be all to every use instead of making each camera body unique to help with specific problems. A golfer doesn't carry around a bag full of 9 irons or (do I dare
a bag full of woods. Nor is their putter manufactured significantly inferior to his driving wood because it's a lesser tool.
Yes mirrorless cameras are here to stay however I disagree they need to be a whole new system, but I'm only a photographer(tool user) not an engineer.
I wouldn't go to a job without two bodies in my camera bag I just would prefer if that second or third backup camera while having the exact same sensor characteristics of the main body could also be designed in it's own unique way. In this case as small as possible for those times when I want to go hiking, street scenes, video work, mounting in unusual places and don't want a full size dslr. (funny I use to strictly use a 4x5)
After using the sony nex I've come to one conclusion there are two size cameras one is point n shoot pocket-able and the second needs to go in a bag.
Here's my analogy (I'm not a golfer or a gopher) it seems Canon keeps making all these different cameras to be all to every use instead of making each camera body unique to help with specific problems. A golfer doesn't carry around a bag full of 9 irons or (do I dare
a bag full of woods. Nor is their putter manufactured significantly inferior to his driving wood because it's a lesser tool.Yes mirrorless cameras are here to stay however I disagree they need to be a whole new system, but I'm only a photographer(tool user) not an engineer.
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Jeff said:What I don't understand is when everyone here claims the full frame can't be done, why not use the same basic body of the 6D without the mirror/viewfinder? No it would not be pocket-able - my sony nex 5n is not pocket-able, but it would reduce weight and size while still functioning just like mk111.
I wouldn't go to a job without two bodies in my camera bag I just would prefer if that second or third backup camera while having the exact same sensor characteristics of the main body could also be designed in it's own unique way. In this case as small as possible for those times when I want to go hiking, street scenes, video work, mounting in unusual places and don't want a full size dslr. (funny I use to strictly use a 4x5)
After using the sony nex I've come to one conclusion there are two size cameras one is point n shoot pocket-able and the second needs to go in a bag.
Here's my analogy (I'm not a golfer or a gopher) it seems Canon keeps making all these different cameras to be all to every use instead of making each camera body unique to help with specific problems. A golfer doesn't carry around a bag full of 9 irons or (do I dare
Yes mirrorless cameras are here to stay however I disagree they need to be a whole new system, but I'm only a photographer(tool user) not an engineer.
If Canon were to make a mirrorless camera using the same EF lenses, then it wouldn't be much smaller because the mount size/design remains the same and it affects lens size.
If Canon were to make a mirrorless camera using a new mount, then wide to normal focal length lenses might get a bit smaller, but the large aperture telephoto lenses will be nearly the same size. Anyone thinking that a 400 f/2.8 will be a lot smaller for a FF mirrorless camera than it currently is does not have reasonable expectations. One of Canon's advantages is its large selection of lenses available. Redesigning all the lenses for a new mount will take YEARS although an adapter can help lessen the transition pain.
I think Canon will eventually get to FF mirrorless bodies, but it will be a slow transition as technologies develop and production costs fall for the newer technologies (EVF at the same quality as the pentaprisms, etc.). The other issue is that APS-Cs outsell FFs, so it's natural that Canon would address that larger segment with the EOS-M first. I'd be tempted to get a 2nd generation EOS-M if it had improved AF for the wife and as a backup camera. For lowlight and shallow DOF, I'd want to use fast primes anyway and those are not pocketable anyway...
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Be careful what you wish for...Sith Zombie said:Lol
http://www.petapixel.com/2012/04/27/ikea-cardboard-camera-called-knappa-to-land-on-store-shelves-soon/
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mrsfotografie said:
A little too late I just sold a Sony Nex 6 and bought an M with both lenses.Don't belive all the hype I thought it sucked. The battery lasted about an hour the iq is not as good as the M.It's always is focusing and no way to turn it off andeats batteries like candy.It does focus a little faster for sure,but it's no SLR either.Also do any of you naysayers here actually own one?
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bigal1000 said:
Yes I do have a Nex-6
I agree it can be heavy on power use but that also depends on the lens in use (ie powerzoom vs manual zoom or prime) and proper power management settings. I've a second battery just in case it runs out.
IQ, I don't know what you're on about. It's stunning - better than the 7D.
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Why all the hate on the M? Anyone who has used mirrorless cameras knows the AF is the weak point, and otherwise the M is an amazing little camera. It got some bad reviews from people who didn't take the time to get to know the camera, and those negatives have been repeated over and over by a bunch of trolls. I'd like to see how many poopooers have actually used one.
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Canon Rumors said:<div name=\"googleone_share_1\" style=\"position:relative;z-index:5;float: right; /*margin: 70px 0 0 0;*/ top:70px; right:120px; width:0;\"><g
<strong>Canon’s next mirrorless?
</strong>Along with last week’s 7D spec list, we also received what is said to be the next EOS-M camera. A lot of people haven’t jumped on the EOS-M system yet, whether it’s the bad rap the AF gets, or the lack of lenses in the system, sales are quite weak for the little EOS camera. Most people seem to want something a little bit higher end, or at least be able to add accessories to improve the usability of the camera.</p>
<p><strong>Specifcations
</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>24mp APS-C Sensor</li>
<li>New generation AF system</li>
<li>DIGIC V</li>
<li>Removable Electronic Viewfinder (Very high resolution)</li>
<li>Optional grip attachment</li>
<li>5fps</li>
<li>Slightly larger than the current EOS M</li>
<li>Introduced with 3 more lenses</li>
<li>$999 USD</li>
</ul>
<p>Now, all of that sounds like pretty much everyones wish list, so take this CR1 rumor with a grain of salt. I will say that the next EOS M camera is definitely pointing to being higher end from other information we’ve received. An entry level EOS M system camera could be coming in early 2014 and sit in the sub $500 category.</p>
<p><strong><span style=\"color: #ff0000;\">c</span>r</strong></p>
That I would jump on.
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bigal1000 said:
The Fuji came to the market with some decent (fast prime) lenses -- a normal fast prime (street shooters lens), a wide prime and a macro. No ho-hum consumer zooms.
They also tapped into an unfilled niche that the mirrorles enthusiasts had wanted for quite a while -- a rangefinder styled MILC with a built in viewfinder.
The camera is more expensive than Canon's offerings, much like a 1 series body costs more than a Canon 6D. It's in a completely different league.
The OM-D and Panasonic GH3 are also in completely different league (to the EOS-M) and sit at comparable price points.
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tallrob said:
The EOS-M is just dandy until you start comparing it with the competition. Canon's offering is too-little-too-late. Olympus and Panasonic have already spent years refining AF and developing a system of lenses.
Canon comes into the market late with a me-too offering -- no innovation, weak lens system, and under-speced compared to similarly priced peers. You can get away with charging a premium if you are the market leader (as they are in DSLRs). The mistake is that they are not a leader in mirrorless cameras (actually they are pretty close to dead last at least among the major players).
As a DSLR vendor, they are justly aggorant.
As a mirrorless vendor, they are just arrogant.
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Canon needs to do a Sony and release a ridiculously good EOS M and market it properly.
I personally wouldn't mind a taller EOS M body if it meant I could use EF lenses.
I personally wouldn't mind a taller EOS M body if it meant I could use EF lenses.
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Hmmmm.... for two years prior to the introduction of the Eos-M, Canon's entry into the mirrorless market was a hot top on CanonRumors. Curiously, Canon ignored nearly every suggestion made, and it's turned out to be a failure. Who'd have thought?
After picking up my first mirrorless camera about two years ago, I've had a strong interest in the segment and have been watching it closely as it evolved. If I was going to relaunch it, I'd: -
1. Develop a lens roadmap, make it public and stick to it. Canon is competing against well-established systems. With only two Eos-M lenses, there is little market confidence that Canon is serious about this segment. Adopters need to know the system will be supported. Canon needs to communicate with their customers and provide timely firmware updates to fix problems and improve the camera.
2. Develop high quality "L" grade lenses. Anecdotally, I'd say a higher percentage of experienced photographers buy mirrorless cameras. They want superior, high quality lenses. With EF compatibility, there is only a need for handful of native focal lengths - 18, 35, 50, 85 and 135 would cover it, along with a couple of consumer zooms.
3. I don't think autofocus is that important (but obviously still needs to be "ok") and should be as good as a DSLR in liveview. With mirrorless cameras, the key ingredients are image quailty and portability. I detected some anti-Eos M sentiments in earlier posts. And while I'd agree that a DSLR is an optimal mix of features and image quality for most people, it isn't the right solution for all people. With an increasing number of elderly photographers, hikers, bikers, travellers, people that don't want to carry 2kg of camera gear on their shoulders all day, people that don't want to look conspicuous, people that like shooting with Infra Red filters etc etc there is rapidly growing interest in smaller and lighter gear. Many people will happily trade size for slower autofocus. But very few people will trade image quality for anything. In theory, the design of a mirrorless camera could/should be able to produce technically better images. Canon needs to put this theory into action. They need to demonstrate that full frame cmaeras aren't the only game in town.
4. The two camera strategy is a good idea. To set them apart from the competitors, the higher end camera should have substantial weather sealing. It needs to be well built, made of metal and have sufficient buttons and dials to have all main features readily accessible - ie it needs to be a "photographers" camera and not a tarted up P & S. It also needs an EVF (and maybe a viewfinder). It needs a weak infrared filter. Focus peaking with manual focus lenses would be well regarded. Both cameras need to look good. And they have to be distinctive. They have to be something that you would be proud to own. Personally, I'd go with retro Canonet styling. But modern styling can also look good - I'd just try to make it more angular than some of Canon's recent work. Battery life is also very important. These cameras aren't going to be pocketable anyway, so don't scrimp on the battery - give us something that can last all day.
While I'm not surprised that the Eos-M hasn't performed well, I am happy that Canon is in this market. It is an important market with the growing number of people seeing the benefits of high quality, but smaller and lighter gear. I'm just hoping that Canon will produce a camera that I'd like to buy.
After picking up my first mirrorless camera about two years ago, I've had a strong interest in the segment and have been watching it closely as it evolved. If I was going to relaunch it, I'd: -
1. Develop a lens roadmap, make it public and stick to it. Canon is competing against well-established systems. With only two Eos-M lenses, there is little market confidence that Canon is serious about this segment. Adopters need to know the system will be supported. Canon needs to communicate with their customers and provide timely firmware updates to fix problems and improve the camera.
2. Develop high quality "L" grade lenses. Anecdotally, I'd say a higher percentage of experienced photographers buy mirrorless cameras. They want superior, high quality lenses. With EF compatibility, there is only a need for handful of native focal lengths - 18, 35, 50, 85 and 135 would cover it, along with a couple of consumer zooms.
3. I don't think autofocus is that important (but obviously still needs to be "ok") and should be as good as a DSLR in liveview. With mirrorless cameras, the key ingredients are image quailty and portability. I detected some anti-Eos M sentiments in earlier posts. And while I'd agree that a DSLR is an optimal mix of features and image quality for most people, it isn't the right solution for all people. With an increasing number of elderly photographers, hikers, bikers, travellers, people that don't want to carry 2kg of camera gear on their shoulders all day, people that don't want to look conspicuous, people that like shooting with Infra Red filters etc etc there is rapidly growing interest in smaller and lighter gear. Many people will happily trade size for slower autofocus. But very few people will trade image quality for anything. In theory, the design of a mirrorless camera could/should be able to produce technically better images. Canon needs to put this theory into action. They need to demonstrate that full frame cmaeras aren't the only game in town.
4. The two camera strategy is a good idea. To set them apart from the competitors, the higher end camera should have substantial weather sealing. It needs to be well built, made of metal and have sufficient buttons and dials to have all main features readily accessible - ie it needs to be a "photographers" camera and not a tarted up P & S. It also needs an EVF (and maybe a viewfinder). It needs a weak infrared filter. Focus peaking with manual focus lenses would be well regarded. Both cameras need to look good. And they have to be distinctive. They have to be something that you would be proud to own. Personally, I'd go with retro Canonet styling. But modern styling can also look good - I'd just try to make it more angular than some of Canon's recent work. Battery life is also very important. These cameras aren't going to be pocketable anyway, so don't scrimp on the battery - give us something that can last all day.
While I'm not surprised that the Eos-M hasn't performed well, I am happy that Canon is in this market. It is an important market with the growing number of people seeing the benefits of high quality, but smaller and lighter gear. I'm just hoping that Canon will produce a camera that I'd like to buy.
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paul13walnut5
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Well haters, I did it. I bought one!
22mm kit with EF-M adaptor. in black.
Tried one in store, with af set to single point (the way I've always used any AF camera other than my EOS 3) and in both one shot and servo modes it is well up to my needs and expectations from this kind of camera.
22mm kit with EF-M adaptor. in black.
Tried one in store, with af set to single point (the way I've always used any AF camera other than my EOS 3) and in both one shot and servo modes it is well up to my needs and expectations from this kind of camera.
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