The next full-frame RF mount camera will be a replacement for the Canon EOS R

koenkooi

EOS 5D Mark IV
CR Pro
Feb 25, 2015
2,373
2,490
The Netherlands
Canon are difficult to predict these days.
The "R Mkii" is apparently going to sit "below" the R6 (presumably this refers to pricing).
I think we can expect significantly lower build quality, a single card slot, only modest burst speed, probably no IBIS, and they'll probably use it to test out some new ergonomic features (as with the R and R7). Low res EVF, and possibly a fixed screen? Sensor could be 20MP, certainly won't be less, but could be 24MP or another rework of the 30MP sensor?
That sounds like an R10, but with a full frame sensor.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Upvote 0

entoman

wildlife photography
May 8, 2015
1,310
1,596
UK
I imagine they are extremely frustrated by the supply chain constraints just when they caught up on tech.
Yes they will be, but other camera companies are in the same position. When the supply chain problems are eventually sorted, they'll benefit from a huge pent up demand, and sales will sky-rocket. Just take a look at what happened with the tourism industry - the pandemic almost destroyed it, but as soon as it subsided and we were all vaccinated, demand for holidays went through the roof. The problem for both the tourism industry and camera manufacturers is whether they can respond quickly enough to meet the demand.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Upvote 0

yungfat

EOS 90D
Feb 16, 2013
136
58
It’s totally fine for me if Canon decided to reuse the 5DIV 30mp sensor.
Price below R6 is welcome.

I was thinking to purchase an R after the announcement of R5 & R6, because of the price is so attractive,but I go with the Rp which is a gift for my wife.

I don’t shoot video, even if I shoot, I don’t go with 4k so the huge crop doesn’t bother me at all.

After all, I believe R still a very good camera.

Glad to see an update for it.

Cheers!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
Upvote 0

Czardoom

EOS RP
Jan 27, 2020
578
1,314
Well no, you don't really "get it". It's not so much that I "don't like the R", and I totally agree about the horrendous ergonomics of early Sony cameras. I just feel that the R could have been a lot better if it hadn't been rushed out. I did actually consider buying one, but after borrowing one and comparing it to my 5DMkiv I decided it made more sense to keep my DSLRs a while longer, and wait until Canon produced a "better" mirrorless camera - a decision I've never regretted. Ultimately I bought the R5, and I still own the 5DMkiv although it is overdue for replacement with another RF mount body.

To answer your other question "was the 5DMkiv mediocre?" - yes, IMO it was. Just compare it to its closest rivals the Nikon D750, D810 and D850, all of which were launched around the same time (or earlier) than the Canon, but were better specified, better performing and more reasonably priced. I was already too deeply tied into Canon (having previously owned 40D, 50D, 6D, 7D, 7DMkii, 5DMkiii and 5DS, plus several Canon L lenses), and the 5DMkiv had the best sensor that Canon made, but compared to Nikon models it was - mediocre.

In my DSLR days there were many times when, if I could have afforded it, I would have gladly switched to Nikon. I'm glad I stuck with Canon though, as their current models (R6, R5, R3, R7) are all extremely good and serve their respective customer niches very well.
You make a lot of assumptions as if you know the facts, but I guess that is typical of the internet forum user. You have no idea that the R was rushed out - considering cameras take about 3 years to develop, this seems highly unlikely. I don't recall a lot of bug fixes or major problems upon release which would have given an indication of it being rushed out and a stop-gap camera. Spec wise, it seemed in line with what Canon had been offering all along.

That being said, thanks for your more detailed and thoughtful explanation without the rhetoric. If you compared the R to the Nikon offerings and found it mediocre, I can't disagree with your opinion. Mediocre is not a word I would have used for a camera that can easily be used by professionals with excelent results, but so be it. I agree totally that Nikon makes excellent cameras and anyone starting today - or at that time - could easily choose Nikon over Canon. About a year ago, not happy myself with the Canon FF choices (R5 and R6 too expensive for what I needed, RP not good enough for what I wanted) I switched from Canon to Nikon and bought the Z5, which, in my opinion, is a much better camera at that price point than the RP. When I had a chance to get a used Z7 for about $1600, I jumped at that, too, which gave me a higher MP camera for less than half the price of the R5. My main reason for jumping, was how good - and smaller and lighter - some of the Z lenses are. I like a one lens solution as I am often picture taking while also walking the dog. The 24-200mm Z lens is perhaps my favorite lens I have ever bought for that reason. Better than Canon's 24-240 - in fact, seemingly as sharp as the Canon RF 24-105 with almost twice the range. Their wide angle (14-30 f/4, if I remember correctly) was also quite compact and sharp corner to corner. I consider it a real shame that Sony has taken such a chunk out of Nikon's sales over the past few years, but that's what great marketing and having the backing of so many internet influencers can do. The only thing Nikon mirrorless lagged behind in, was AF and FPS. If you aren't into sports, birds and wildlife, Nikon mirrorless is far better than Sony at every price point level, in every respect, in my opinion. The only reason I came back to Canon in the end was, after 25 years of shooting Canon, I could not tolerate Nikon colors. Especially when fall season arrived. I just find Canon colors to be so much better - although I realize it may just be what I am used to, rather than any actual measurable spec.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
Upvote 0

john1970

EOS R3
CR Pro
Dec 27, 2015
555
712
Northeastern US
Interesting development because I thought the next FF camera from Canon was going to be a high MP camera. I believe earlier rumors suggested that the next FF would be ~100 MP.

With that said, a replacement for the R and Rp makes a lot of sense. An R with an updated focusing system like the R6/R5, but at a lower price could sell quite well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Upvote 0

entoman

wildlife photography
May 8, 2015
1,310
1,596
UK
I consider it a real shame that Sony has taken such a chunk out of Nikon's sales over the past few years, but that's what great marketing and having the backing of so many internet influencers can do. The only thing Nikon mirrorless lagged behind in, was AF and FPS. If you aren't into sports, birds and wildlife, Nikon mirrorless is far better than Sony at every price point level, in every respect, in my opinion. The only reason I came back to Canon in the end was, after 25 years of shooting Canon, I could not tolerate Nikon colors. Especially when fall season arrived. I just find Canon colors to be so much better - although I realize it may just be what I am used to, rather than any actual measurable spec.
Yes it's a great shame that Nikon has lost market share - for many years they've had better (Sony) sensors than Canon, better specifications, cheaper prices and at least equal build quality and durability. I don't like Sony ergonomics or colour science, and I absolutely loathe the way they push their products via internet influencers, but I give them credit for pushing the envelope. Canon and Nikon were both stuck in a rut and fully deserved the kick up the rear that Sony gave them. Nowadays all 3 brands are producing wonderful products and we are very lucky to be so spoiled for choice.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Upvote 0

entoman

wildlife photography
May 8, 2015
1,310
1,596
UK
That would be then be canon thrash.
Canon have a nice choice of existing FF sensors to repurpose for the "R-whatever it is".

20MP from the R6 & 1Dxiii
24MP from the R3
26MP from the 6DMkii & RP
30MP from the 5DMkiv and R

The only one that hasn't already been used twice is the 24MP... and it's probably the best of the bunch.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Upvote 0

entoman

wildlife photography
May 8, 2015
1,310
1,596
UK
Hoping for a sweet spot between the R5 and R6…similar to a Sony A7IV and an equivalent price tag. Not holding my breath.
That could well be EXACTLY what Canon do. Hold your breath a bit longer! If the camera is going to sit "below" the R6 though, there will be a few sacrifices - single card slot, slower burst speed to name just two.
 
Upvote 0

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
CR Pro
Jul 21, 2010
27,864
7,922
Canon have a nice choice of existing FF sensors to repurpose for the "R-whatever it is".

20MP from the R6 & 1Dxiii
24MP from the R3
26MP from the 6DMkii & RP
30MP from the 5DMkiv and R

The only one that hasn't already been used twice is the 24MP... and it's probably the best of the bunch.
I don’t think the R replacement will get a stacked, BSI sensor like the R3.
 
  • Like
  • Sad
Reactions: 4 users
Upvote 0

David - Sydney

EOS 5D Mark IV
CR Pro
Dec 7, 2014
1,530
1,299
www.flickr.com
The RF 100-500mm is an improvement over the EF 100-400mm, with longer max focal length, much better stabilisation, closer focusing and a marginal increase in sharpness, although there are downsides e.g. inability to use an extender at focal lengths shorter than 300mm, and a fairly hefty price tag.

The RF 100mm macro is sharper, quieter and focuses closer than the EF version, and better stabilised, but it's a lot more expensive, and has totally different AF characteristics - disappointing early results led me to completely change my AF settings compared to those that were perfect on the EF version.
I would add that the weight is lower and the collapsed length as well if a EF1.4x TC was included. Given that the RF70-200/2.8 can't accept extenders then this is the only RF option compared to my previous EF setup (EF70-200/2.8 + 1.4/2x TCs) at the time of purchase. Definitely no regrets as I have used it far more than I expected with even significant crops giving amazing results. Also, a second hand EF100-400mm was hard to find and was keeping its pricing much higher than other EF lenses in the market. Now that a RF100-400mm is available, I think that the benefits between the two RF telephotos is less obvious especially at the price difference.

I would add that there isn't enough benefit (to me) to "upgrade" to RF versions of the EF16-35/4 and EF100mm/2.8 macro.... at least until my current ones die one way or the other. My wide angle is my workhorse lens and does everything I need perfectly. Maybe having a wider focal length would be occasionally useful but not enough to warrant upgrade.
I don't use my macro enough to warrant an upgrade. I got it second hand and it is perfect for when I use it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Upvote 0

David - Sydney

EOS 5D Mark IV
CR Pro
Dec 7, 2014
1,530
1,299
www.flickr.com
The tinyer aps-c model without viewfinder will be a R100 or even R1000, i think. The replacements of them will be R20, R200, R2000 in a few years.
R8 and R9 will never be used due to the fact a R7 is still aps-c, they won't add a 8 or 9 with fullframe.

I still think a R will not have a successor (there is, R6 and R5, yeah yeah different price, but all prices increased). But the entry level RP will have a replacement to have something in the sub 1000 range.
That is indeed a reasonable position.
I would like a backup RF full frame camera for workshops/trips that would be small/low cost but a better sensor than the RP/6Dii.
Frame rate/EVF and even AF etc could be subpar but I would need full frame to suit my wide angle lenses.
 
Upvote 0

David - Sydney

EOS 5D Mark IV
CR Pro
Dec 7, 2014
1,530
1,299
www.flickr.com
IBIS is overrated.
Compare camera shake with a non-stabilised tele or macro, on a 5DMkiv, and on a R5, and you won't notice much difference.
Yes, I have both bodies and have made multiple comparison tests using stabilised and non-stabilised Canon glass.
You'll see an improvement in stabilisation if you use short focal length lenses, but with teles nearly all of the stabilisation is done with the lens, not the body.
I had the unfortunate situation of being in Iceland for 2 weeks with lost luggage for 11 days.... so no filters or tripod :-(
IBIS was critical to handle longer exposure times hand held in this case.
You are correct about OIS vs IBIS for long vs short focal lengths but they still work together. OIS can't handle yaw etc but with longer focal lengths IBIS can't move that far.
That said, IBIS also reduces body shake for high mp sensors in general.
I definitely don't see it as overrated but it depends on your shooting genres.
 
Upvote 0

David - Sydney

EOS 5D Mark IV
CR Pro
Dec 7, 2014
1,530
1,299
www.flickr.com
That naming system guarantees they run out of names after 10 models
I am just getting used to the RF mount
I do not care to switch again
EF = "Electro Focus"... do we know what "RF" stands for?

I think that the R mount is here for a very long time to come so switching any time soon would be highly unlikely unless you switch away from Canon.
EF started in 1987 so 35 years so far and still supported with native lenses for a long time to come.
R mount (combining FF and APS-C):
R3/5/5c/6/7/10 so far with r1/2/8/9 currently available in the single digit range.
R/Ra/RP naming convention likely to be replaced
R10 could be the start of R20/R90 etc

I think that the maximum number of EF/EF-s bodies that Canon were actively selling was 12 in 2015...
1Dx/1Dc/5Ds/5DSr/5Diii/6D/7Dii/70D/760D/750D/100D/1200D
One could argue that 1Dc was a cinema body and that 5DS/r were basically one body but 12 is a lot and there are far less now.

I have tried to find what is the currently available EF/EF-S bodies and different retailers have different models available. This could be due to leftover inventory as well.
1DXiii/5div/6dii (5dsr in some)
90D/850D/250D/2000D/4000D (most retailers don't have all of them). Entry level models may be more available in developing countries as well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Upvote 0

David - Sydney

EOS 5D Mark IV
CR Pro
Dec 7, 2014
1,530
1,299
www.flickr.com
Yes that's possible, but it would be competing directly with the R7 - an absolute bargain camera with 33MP, IBIS, 2 card slots and good build quality.

Which would you buy, and why?

Personally I'd choose the R7, or wait for the R6Mkii (probably 24-26MP) although I don't think that will arrive until 2024.
The main issue with the R7 (and RF-S lenses) is that there is no wide/ultra wide angle lenses available except for adapting EF-S lenses. Happy for Canon to release native RF-S lenses made from their EF-S or EF-M range but for the moment, there is no option besides the RF16mm prime which is still 26mm ff.
 
Upvote 0