There are currently 3 EOS R system cameras coming in the second half of 2022 [CR2]

Sporgon

5% of gear used 95% of the time
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Nov 11, 2012
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Forget RP, huge error on canon's part.
What an extraordinary comment ! With relatively small lenses and the grip extension attached the RP is the most comfortable camera to hold in one hand that I’ve experienced in forty years of photography, and this compliments it’s general ergonomics and interface. Judging by the serial numbers since it’s introduction it looks like Canon has shifted tonnes of them.
Hardly a huge error.
The only problem is I still prefer an OVF.
 
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Sporgon

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I'll have a good look at the entry level RF full frame when it's out, it would be great if it includes a viewfinder and a physical cable release port but I have a feeling they will not be included. Depending on the price and specs I may even instead get a used 6D or 6D II.
I wonder why you’re not considering the current RP ?
 
Oct 31, 2020
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Am I the only one that would just like an R5 that's 30mp, 4k oversampled, no 8k, No overheating and about $2500. - $3500?
Obviously it woundnt be called an R5 but you get the idea
I'd actually love a camera like with those specs and I fear it would be an in-house competition for the R6 because a lot of people prefer to have 30mp over 20mp. Plus, if the sensor is a new-developed one, it might have advantages over the R6 sensor. I don't see another camera being placed at the same price point as the R6 because should fill the gap between RP successor and the R6. This would also relate to the specs.
 

neuroanatomist

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neuroanatomist

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Birds in flight is not the only use of a telephoto lens. Most of my subjects are perched birds for example, in the forest where it’s really, really dark. A hell of a lot of shots are like 1/50 sec at 600mm focal length. The more IS the better!
I agree. The point is that IBIS is not going to give you much IS benefit at 600mm. That’s a photography basic. You can completely disagree with it, but when you argue with physics you’re going to lose.

I’m not saying Canon should ‘not include IS because most R7 users will be telephoto shooters’, I don’t think anyone in this forum understands who Canon will be targeting with an APS-C RF body. If they leave out IBIS, it will be because it’s a low cost body intended to pull Rebel/xxxD users into the RF ecosystem.
 
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We have a pretty good idea of what the entry level camera and RP replacement will look like:
- no EVF
- 20 MP sensor
- no mechanical shutter (my guess --> saves money)
- small camera housing (smaller as RP?)
- no IBIS (I guess due to pricing)

But I'm really wondering what specs the gap-filling/ below R6/ spiritual R successor will receive. Some of the suggested specs on this forum would cut into the R6 sales, but yet there have to be obvious improvements to the R, otherwise the R will keep selling pretty well.

My thoughts are:
- new sensor with around 26 mp (+/- 2 MP)
- FPS 8 (mechanical) max. 12 electrical shutter
- ergonomics close to the R5/R6 but probably they'll strip some buttons (hopefully not the joystick)
- IBIS??? --> biggest question for me. A 1.800-2.000 $ camera should come with IBIS, if it is around 1.300 $ I'm not so sure... --> plus, it differentiate the R6 by a big margin.

For the R6, I think a Mk II might not be so far ahead in the future (second half 2023). It could get an upgrade to differentiate from the gap-camera as well. These could be:

- higher MP count (my guess: 32mp) --> far enough from the R5 and the gap camera
- BSI technology
- 1/16.000 exposure time --> built for speed and yet differentiated to the R3
- slight Upgrade on video specs...

Just my thoughts, I'm curious and excited to see the new FF line-up shaping up this year and in 2023. I love my R but I'm still planning on upgrading because I shoot more and more wild-life and youth sporting events. Maybe the R successor will do (I don't need 20 FPS or more) and maybe not (depends on specs), but I can wait till 2024 if necessary :)
 

Jasonmc89

EOS RP
Feb 7, 2019
405
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I agree. The point is that IBIS is not going to give you much IS benefit at 600mm. That’s a photography basic. You can completely disagree with it, but when you argue with physics you’re going to lose.

I’m not saying Canon should ‘not include IS because most R7 users will be telephoto shooters’, I don’t think anyone in this forum understands who Canon will be targeting with as APS-C RF body. If they leave out IBIS, it will be because it’s a low cost body intended to pull Rebel/xxxD users into the RF ecosystem.
How is IBIS not going to give you more stabilisation at 600mm? Of course it is. That’s what it does.
 

AlanF

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How is IBIS not going to give you more stabilisation at 600mm? Of course it is. That’s what it does.
It gives you only a small amount more. Canon claims for the RF 100-500 that its IS is 5 stops and on the R5 6 stops with the IBIS. I don't see 6 stops. Ken Rockwell has done experiments - click the following links - and finds very little if any extra stabilization from the IBIS added to the IS of telephotos.

Ken Rockwell has compared the overall IS on the R5 and the RP for the RF 800 https://www.kenrockwell.com/canon/eos-r/lenses/800mm.htm
and has concluded:

"I see only about a half stop extra improvement with the R5 even though the R5 adds in-body sensor-shift stabilization; I haven't seen the R5 IBIS to add any significant improvement to lenses that are already stabilized. The R5 is an awesome camera, but I wouldn't get one solely for the additional in-body stabilization which doesn't seem to do as much as some people hope." (click on both links to see his results on the RF 800 and other lenses.)
 
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Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
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I would love to see an R7 that is an R5 body with a new APS-C sensor in it. I say R5 and not R6 because I really like that Mode button for convenience and the CFexpress/SD combo for high speed. Something like this in the high $1,000's would be an absolute winner.

Something like that would likely be priced in the high $2,000s. For the high $1,000s, we're more likely to see an RF mount 90D type of camera.
 

Michael Clark

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Apr 5, 2016
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I want an RP2 or RX, new budget entry, WITH FAN,
proper HDMI,
full ULTRA 4k will do, can live without 8k,
NO recording time limit, or if there IS one, 2 hours max would be fine
24-30MP
lp-e6 battery (not the horrendous lp-e17)

I don't want it at $999 and stuff missing, I wouldn't mind paying $1500 and everyone happy with it.

I guess you want a Corvette for the price of a Chevette, too?
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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How is IBIS not going to give you more stabilisation at 600mm? Of course it is. That’s what it does.

Because for the same amount of camera movement at 600mm the sensor has to move 10X as far as it needs to move with a 60mm lens. Or to put it another way, you can move the camera 10X as far with a 60mm lens as with a 600mm lens and get the same amount of blur, in terms of number of pixels on the sensor, that needs to be compensated for.
 
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neuroanatomist

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How is IBIS not going to give you more stabilisation at 600mm? Of course it is. That’s what it does.
Read, please. I didn’t state ‘no more’, I stated ‘not much more’. Not much ≠ none.

IBIS gives me 7-8 stops of stabilization with my RF 28-70/2L. As @AlanF states, the same IBIS system gives at best one stop with the RF 100-500L. As was pointed out earlier, Canon states there is no additional benefit of IBIS with the RF 800/11. Do you see a trend there?

The original point that you completely disagreed with was, “IBIS is less effective the longer the focal length.” Sorry that you seem unable to grasp that concept. It’s simple physics, and your inability to understand the facts doesn’t change them.

Perhaps a graphic from Canon will help. The blue line is labeled Sensor Shift Only (aka IBIS). See how it drops off along the Focal Length axis toward the Telephoto Side?

6A56B6BA-520E-4B12-88E2-DF6BF7B9F401.jpeg

If you still cannot grasp the concept that IBIS is less effective at longer focal lengths, perhaps you should just ignore the technological aspects of photography and stick to pressing the shutter button.

I don’t understand how all the chips in my iPhone work, but I can still use it to post to the CanonRumors forum.
 
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koenkooi

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Personally I hope Canon don’t take the viewfinder off the RP series. Unless you require fast frame rate there’s very little the current RP can’t do, the ergonomics and interface are as quick as my 5 series, so that makes it a bargain priced “competent” camera. Judging by the serial numbers since 2019 Canon are moving a lot of them.
I would love to see an R body in the style of the original EOS-M, as someone else put it: a 'deck of cards'. It would be a handy thing to slap on the RF16 or RF50 and have it with you in your coat pocket. I currently use the M6II for things like that, but it lacks both EFCS and ES modes and while the AF is fast, it's not as accurate as the RP or R5. An optional EVF would be nice, but not required for me.

Failing that, an RP-like body with support for electronic shutter would be a great companion to the R5, when the R5 feels too bulky to take with you.
 

scyrene

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Dec 4, 2013
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I agree. The point is that IBIS is not going to give you much IS benefit at 600mm. That’s a photography basic. You can completely disagree with it, but when you argue with physics you’re going to lose.

I’m not saying Canon should ‘not include IS because most R7 users will be telephoto shooters’, I don’t think anyone in this forum understands who Canon will be targeting with as APS-C RF body. If they leave out IBIS, it will be because it’s a low cost body intended to pull Rebel/xxxD users into the RF ecosystem.
Thank you for saving me the time to reply!
 

Sporgon

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Perhaps a graphic from Canon will help. The blue line is labeled Sensor Shift Only (aka IBIS). See how it drops off along the Focal Length axis toward the Telephoto Side?

View attachment 202281

If you still cannot grasp the concept that IBIS is less effective at longer focal lengths, perhaps you should just ignore the technological aspects of photography and stick to pressing the shutter button.

I don’t understand how all the chips in my iPhone work, but I can still use it to post to the CanonRumors forum.
That’s interesting. I had no idea that even Canon rated IBIS so much more effective than lens IS on short focal lengths.
 

neuroanatomist

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…a physical cable release port…
It took me a moment to see you mean ‘physical port for cable release’. My first thought was actually ‘port for physical cable release’.

F8186907-A300-46F7-9492-4C5198C33529.jpeg

It’s been a while since I’ve used one of those.
 
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neuroanatomist

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That’s interesting. I had no idea that even Canon rated IBIS so much more effective than lens IS on short focal lengths.
AFAIK, the best optical (in-lens) stabilization is 5 stops, and most lenses are rated in the 3-4 stop range (several RF lenses do offer 5 stops). IBIS is rated for 8 stops with the non-stabilized RF 28-70/2.

That seems to be the current cap, as lenses with 5-stops optical combined with IBIS still top out at 8 stops.
 
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neuroanatomist

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At some point, I need to test the effectiveness of the IBIS in my R3 with my TS-E 17 and 24. It’s been suggested that the RF 28-70/2 gets 8 stops IBIS because it has a large image circle (the non-stabilized RF 50/1.2 gets 7 stops).

TS-E lenses have huge image circles to allow for lens movements, so if that’s the rationale for the 28-70 they should get that max 8-stop benefit. Probably less benefit with a large degree of tilt and/or shift applied.

I often use shutter speeds in the 4-15 second range for my blue hour architecture shooting, and assuming a 1/15 s handholding, 8 stops of IS means a 15 s exposure. Not saying I’d leave my travel tripod (RRS TQC-14) at home when I go on trips, but it might mean that when I need exposures up to 8 s or so, I leave the tripod strapped to the backpack (at least for shift, which is doable handheld; tilt, not so much at least for me).
 

Ozarker

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So the R5s and R1 will not come until 2023... and no APS-C glass ever, or maybe merely only a single kit lens? A single crop camera model does not deserves a entire line of crop glass...
Other than cost, I never saw the point of APS-C lenses. The non-L ff lenses seem very inexpensive to me. I think you are right.