There are currently 3 EOS R system cameras coming in the second half of 2022 [CR2]

[Jethro]

for round numbers, say a half inch taller and wider to account for the increased diameter of the RF mount vs. EF-m mount. That's assuming the screen, EVF, battery, etc stay the same as the comparison body.

Brian

If they include IBIS (as they likely would with a true R7) that would add a certain amount of extra bulk. Not sure how much though.

I'm not sure those wanting an R7 would want it as small as possible, because they will likely want to mount some pretty big lenses. Now, in terms of (possible) future replacements for the M series, that's where the smaller bodies would have to come into their own.

 

[David - Sydney]

I'm guessing nothing below an R7 (if there is one) will have IBIS. But we'll see.

I am not sure that the R7 will have IBIS. It will mostly be targeted at telephoto users where IBIS is less effective anyway.

 

[David - Sydney]

So the R5s and R1 will not come until 2023... and no APS-C glass ever, or maybe merely only a single kit lens? A single crop camera model does not deserves a entire line of crop glass...

Wide angle EF-s lenses will cover the APS-C sensor without any issues but won't be the smallest/lightest solution.
The forecasted RF 18-45mm f/4-5.6 IS STM would be another option going to ~29mm full frame equivalent. It should be small and cheap (by RF standards)
I believe that there won't be a RF-s mount

 

[cgc]

"Crippled sensor"? That, I am unhappy to say, is a new one. Very creative!

Well, they could always make a FF sensor with identical pixel density (with far more resolution and same IQ at image level) for the same exact tele reach of APS-C. This just depends on how they cut the CMOS wafers.

Instead they choose to make the FF in one body (bigger pixels) and the long reach (smaller pixels) in a separate cropped body (more chances to sell both). Both sensors are "crippled" in some way from the technologically feasible high resolution single FF one.

 

[David - Sydney]

It would be interesting to see a RP mark ii... probably without an EVF for size/cost and be a bridge from phone cameras to full frame.
For me, it could be a great backup body or one where I could use it for star trails overnight. A second hand RP would be another option as well.

 

[cgc]

From my understanding, all existing Canon EF-S (APSC) lenses should work perfectly with the EF-R adapter on any R-mount crop sensor Canon bodies. That would include ultra wide angle lenses like the EF-S 10-18. I believe these EF-S lenses would fill the entire smaller APSC sensor without cropping (as happens on the full-frame R bodies). Thus, buyers of crop sensor R bodies would have plenty of crop lens choices from the get-go. Canon might develop native R mount crop lenses if they saw the demand, but users could adapt all the existing EF-S lenses to meet immediate needs. And that might be all there is to it.

Many (if not most) EF and EF-S lenses are discontinued

 

[Exploreshootshare]

I bet for the names being:

• R7 for around 32MP APS-C (great features and speed, crippled sensor and OVF nostalgia plus EVF)
• R10 for the new full frame bellow R6/R5 with around 32MP (mirrorless 90D successor and R replacement)
• R100 for a tiny entry-level full-frame with no EVF (mirrorless 850D successor and RP replacement)

My guess is Canon will keep the single digit number models for full-frame models. So here it goes:

- R100 for the APS-C if it is more like a slight above entry level camera OR
- R10 for the APS-C if it's spaced like a the 80d/ 90d series

- R9 for entry level --> basically just a sensor in a camera housing
- R8 for the new full frame below R6/5 --> R8 also shows some distance to them...


R7 will stay reserved as a placeholder in case Canon decides to offer a truly pro APS-C model...

 

[entoman]

I have had an M6 with EVF-DC2 since 2017, and the M6II since 2019. I've never even come close to losing the EVF, which I rarely use, but always have with me, just in case. I agree that $250 (or pounds) is a lot to pay for it. I got mine bundled in a deal when I bought my M6, and it cost me $49. If Canon offered the EVF discounted in bundles with a tiny R camera, that would be a great idea. What I really love about the detachable EVF for the M6 and M6II is that it allows me to use the camera without an EVF most of the time. I only use it with longer lenses. The M6 and M6II are so wonderfully light and compact that I carry them with me far more than my R. A friend recently moved from his Nikon D800 to a Sony A7C just because of the size.

If you got the EVF for $49 then I agree that it's a bargain, and I can understand the desire for a camera that fits in the pocket, for occasions when you don't want to lug a larger setup around, or for when you want to be inconspicuous.

I'm genuinely glad that it's a solution that works for you, but I'd rather pay a bit extra to get a built-in EVF, and I wouldn't under any circumstances use a rear screen for my own photography for several reasons -

I consider them too small to be usable for composition as it's not possible to adequately see details or distracting features in the background.
It's much easier to hold a camera steady when it's held against the face, than at arms length.
In bright conditions reflections on the screen make it virtually unusable.
I can't properly judge exposure via WYSIWYG when the contrast and brightness of the screen auto-adjusts to compensate for ambient light.

I'm most definitely in the "no EVF/OVF, no buy" group!

 

[Exploreshootshare]

Now it there will be many full frame bodies:

Previously: 1DX, 5D4, 5DS, 6D (total of 4)
Now: R-entry, R-better, R6, R5, R3, R1 (total of 6)

I'd assume that more market segmentation in full frame implies less room for crop sensors.

Absolutely agree. There won't be as many APS-C as we had for EF mount. I guess a maximum of three cameras and maybe a retro one...

 

[David - Sydney]

Another option for the R7 is an APS-C sensor that has the same pixel density as a future full frame R5s.
Using the 32mp example from 90D/M6ii then it would scale to 82mp full frame.
I think that it is possible for Canon to reuse the 2019 90D sensor in a R7. It may be 3 years old but it would be much cheaper than developing a new sensor.
14fps for M6ii vs 10fps for 7Dii,
Higher pixel density
better video,
flippy screen,
single vs dual card slots
lighter but probably less rugged/weather sealing
Might not have a LPE6 battery though

 

[David - Sydney]

Many (if not most) EF and EF-S lenses are discontinued

B&H have heaps in stock (Canon and 3rd party). The main ones will be the EF-s 10-18mm and 10-22mm otherwise EF and RF would be used.

 

[entoman]

My guess is Canon will keep the single digit number models for full-frame models. So here it goes:

- R100 for the APS-C if it is more like a slight above entry level camera OR
- R10 for the APS-C if it's spaced like a the 80d/ 90d series

- R9 for entry level --> basically just a sensor in a camera housing
- R8 for the new full frame below R6/5 --> R8 also shows some distance to them...


R7 will stay reserved as a placeholder in case Canon decides to offer a truly pro APS-C model...

I've always found it strange that in the xxD series, a high number (90D) is more advanced (and more recent) than a low number (60D), whereas with the xD series, a high number (6D) denotes a model less advanced than a low number (1D).

It's equally odd that ALL the full frame DSLRs had single digit designations, whereas the APS-C models had single (7D), double (80D), triple (750D), and quadruple (1000D) digit designations, plus weirdo alternative names - the 850D, Kiss X10i and Rebel T8i all being exactly the same model!

As for the RF mount cameras, my undoubtedly incorrect prediction is:

Hi end models, whether APS-C or FF, will all be single-digit (R1, R3, R5, R6, R7)

Economy/beginner models will all be double digit (R10, R50 etc).

 

[Bob Howland]

Continue reading...

Wild guesses: The bottom-of-the-line camera will be as small as possible, to see if they can convince potential M-mount customers to go R mount instead and maybe, eventually kill off the M system. I'm not sure Canon has any lenses to match with it. Maybe Sigma will bail them out again. The R6 sensor is a really interesting choice.

The source's description of the APS-C body sounds really interesting. Maybe there are enough of us 7D/7D2/etc users to provoke a replacement. I'd settle for 24MP but may be in the minority in that.

I still want to know what the C300-3 and C500-2 "modules" are.

 

[peters]

How small could they get a crop sensor RF mount body? Say in comparison to the M5 or M6 MK II…

Given the very short flange distance and the allready impressive tiny RF lenses they recently announced - I'd say and hope "VERY small"
Travel camera here we go =)

 

[Bob Howland]

How small could they get a crop sensor RF mount body? Say in comparison to the M5 or M6 MK II…

Why would the sensor have to be crop? The limiting factor is the size of the lens mount and the R-mount isn't that much larger than the M-mount. I could see M6-2 size or slightly larger, full frame.

 

[Phenix205]

Can someone help me understand the advantage of having a large RF mount for an APS-C sensor? Mounting a high end expensive RF lens on an APS-C sensor camera makes no sense to me. Many people like Fuji X mount cameras because they are compact and overall system cost, weight and size are reduced significantly. Personally I hope Canon would revitalize the M series and develop some high quality prime or zoom lenses for travel photographers, and concentrate on producing more affordable RF bodies and lenses.

 

[Deleted]

Why would the sensor have to be crop? The limiting factor is the size of the lens mount and the R-mount isn't that much larger than the M-mount. I could see M6-2 size or slightly larger, full frame.

Cost. You still get more good sensors per wafer than you would with FF. it still makes a difference. Then we have the ancillary costs, buffer memory for instance. More pixels means more memory, heat to manage with increased data throughput. You can have a more pixel dense sensor but less pixels to deal with so can limit the above costs. Then there is the ibis, the bigger sensor requires more current do drive the actuators that move it so more cost increase. It all adds up to a not insignificant amount.

 

[Del Paso]

"Crippled sensor"? That, I am unhappy to say, is a new one. Very creative!

A crippled sensor is a sensor which has been hit several times with the legendary cripple hammer.

 

[entoman]

Wild guesses: The bottom-of-the-line camera will be as small as possible, to see if they can convince potential M-mount customers to go R mount instead and maybe, eventually kill off the M system. I'm not sure Canon has any lenses to match with it. Maybe Sigma will bail them out again. The R6 sensor is a really interesting choice.

The source's description of the APS-C body sounds really interesting. Maybe there are enough of us 7D/7D2/etc users to provoke a replacement. I'd settle for 24MP but may be in the minority in that.

I still want to know the C300-3 and C500-2 "modules" are.

It wouldn't surprise me if Canon launched a couple of crop lenses for any budget crop RF cameras that they may produce.

Perhaps a pancake 28mm F2.8 for group shots, parties, scenery, street.

... and possibly a very compact retractable telezoom (80-180mm F5.6-8?).

Such a pair of lenses might, as you hint, help to convince potential M customers and smartphoners to buy into RF.

 

[Deleted]

Can someone help me understand the advantage of having a large RF mount for an APS-C sensor? Mounting a high end expensive RF lens on an APS-C sensor camera makes no sense to me. Many people like Fuji X mount cameras because they are compact and overall system cost, weight and size are reduced significantly. Personally I hope Canon would revitalize the M series and develop some high quality prime or zoom lenses for travel photographers, and concentrate on producing more affordable RF bodies and lenses.

As per my post on the last page. I own both FF and crop cameras. When out for a long hike, I can carry a 100-400 on a crop body and still get the pixels on subject I would with a FF/600mm combo. Also means I can track fast subjects like swift handheld for a lot longer than I could with a 600 F4. For a 100-400 I do not need a tripod but for long use I would with a big 600 depending on the situation.

I also shoot macro handheld for hours. I favour crop/60mm over my ff/100mm all the time. The 60mm fits in the bag easier. More importantly it is much lighter on long sessions. As the muscles tire it is more of a struggle to keep steady so less successful shots.