There is an APS-C RF mount camera coming [CR3]

Jethro

EOS R
CR Pro
Jul 14, 2018
558
451
APS-C sensors are cheaper to make
Are they that much cheaper to make though? And if the R7 includes a lot of the 'pro' features from the R5, I wonder how much cheaper overall it will be. Certainly more than the R6.
 

degos

EOS RP
Mar 20, 2015
421
356
I disagree with you over the MP and processor. The Canon 32 MP is 'difficult'. It needs high resolving power lenses. The 26 MP X-Trans on the Fuji kicks it out of the park.

All recent EF lenses, and presumably RF, have been designed for 100MP+ FF sensors. Or 40MP+ APS-C.

QUOTE="Jethro, post: 870362, member: 380753"]
Are they that much cheaper to make though?
[/Quote]

Yes, more sensors per wafer and therefore losses from defects see proportionally lower compared to FF sensors of identical density. That's why APS-C existed in the digital era.
 

ctk

Refurb EOS R Kit
Mar 25, 2020
65
66
Cinema cameras aside, why?

Who want's this over full-frame? With today's processors, FF has proven to be just as performant as something like the 7D line. If you give me the "reach" argument, then I would give you the FF crop argument. If you give me the cost argument, then I point to the RP. Cheaper than that then you're going to have an up-hill battle against Fujifilm and Sony, or you know, Canon's M lineup.

I don't think it makes any sense, but maybe that's just me. I just hope they don't split their attention developing 'RF-S' lenses that are inferior in every way.

The only way it would be remotely interesting to me is if they made a really good, significantly more compact camera body with some really good, compact, L-glass (IE, competitive with Fuji's lenses), while also obviously maintaining the ability to use FF lenses. Then, maybe I'd justify one as a travel camera/backup body.

But seeing as how they never made L-glass for EF-S...

In other words, give me an RF line of APS-C lenses that can go toe-to-toe with Fuji X or GTFO.

I agree. To put some more spice on it, Nikon has sold about 80K Z50s. Given that they and Canon barely invested in crop DSLR systems with millions of units sold, I think the odds of a crop Z system going much further are very slim. Which makes RF-S, especially in the context of EF-M, that much more dubious of a proposition. Anyone who can afford RF L glass can afford FF bodies and while non L RF glass has been pretty good it's not leaps and bounds better than EF glass.

I honestly feel like the appeal of RF-S is pure contrarianism and inclusionism. I guess it's not too expensive for Canon to throw such people a bone, but I think anyone expecting more than an RF-S 15-xx variable aperture zoom is in for a rude awakening.
 
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Hector1970

EOS R
CR Pro
Mar 22, 2012
1,346
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I think an R7 20FPS 24 to 30MP with a good focusing system for around $1000 would sell very well.
It will probably end up being $2500.
I think there is a market for an R7. A compact solid weatherproof body with a good grip to balance bigger lens would be great.
With what Olympus can achieve with a micro 4/3 sensor Canon could make a good machine with an APS-C sensor.
In the end it will come down to price. It will be somewhere between R6 and R5.
The price will make or break it. If it's too close to R5 why not go full frame.
The old 7D/7DII had a "reach" advantage through the viewfinder but with EVF you can zoom in to focus and track.
A R7 could have amazing performance as the Canon digic chips would have no problem with 24 to 30 MP file size for FPS or buffer.
 

David - Sydney

EOS R
CR Pro
Dec 7, 2014
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789
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With the exception of the MP there are cameras out there that fit the bill. X-T4 and X-T3 from Fuji. Why wait for Canon Vapourware, again.
The wait for R5 was definitely worthwhile for me. I'm sure that moving to Sony (canon lenses) would been been okay but I am glad that I waited.
Vaporware? sure it was a long wait but this is CR3 which is the closest to an actual Canon announcement. A lot of discussion in this forum but no consensus about feature set and cost. A lot of very hopeful people for a lowish cost which I can't see happening.
I'm sure that the Fujis are great for what they are and are available now rather than 12 months from now with Canon. No one is suggesting that you have to wait unless you have EF/RF glass that cannot be used on Fuji so a much larger cost to switch.
How long the smaller players survive is a declining market will be fascinating to watch. Canon doesn't have to compete directly on cost.
 
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blackcoffee17

EOS RP
Sep 17, 2014
688
852
I would be very happy with an APSC camera in an R5 body. No need to be smaller. That's already smaller and lighter than a 7D.
Add a modern 24-28mp sensor with the latest AF, full width sharp 4K and price it under $2000.
 
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Sep 2, 2020
3
2
It is interesting to see the discussion here and I guess we would all love a definitive answer from Canon as to what their plans and roadmap is! From their perspective it must be very difficult - with a shrinking market it is probably hard to justify developing, manufacturing and selling two (or even four if you include EF and EF-S in the last action) ranges of lenses.

For me, I think I am looking for a quality Canon APS-C camera as an upgrade from my 600D (T3i) - initially lenses are not important as I would use my EF / EF-S lenses but moving forwards I would probably acquire new lenses developed for the camera model / range. I was getting excited about the prospect of the M5 II but this seems to be fading from the radar along with M series lens development - I guess I will pin my hopes on a suitable R series - I just wish it was not so far into the future ......!
 
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David - Sydney

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Dec 7, 2014
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I would be very happy with an APSC camera in an R5 body. No need to be smaller. That's already smaller and lighter than a 7D.
Add a modern 24-28mp sensor with the latest AF, full width sharp 4K and price it under $2000.
Although the 7D came out at USD2k, what you are asking for is already above the R6. Full width 4K would either equate to 6+k raw (the 1DXiii's 20mp sensor is 5.5k raw) and/or downsampled 6k->4k video. With a higher res sensor and latest AF would need to push it above the R6 in pricing terms especially if weather sealing was included. Of course, it could be another unicorn like the 7D series.

I originally started with a 7D but moved to 5Diii. The 5Diii was slower (fps/AF) and couldn't focus in low light but milky way shots were actually possible. That high ISO performance was a "night and day" ;-) showing the difference between APS-C vs full frame and was worthwhile for me. The difference may not be as wide with today's technology but that was the upgrade path from APS-C to full frame.

Comments saying that full frame proponents are elitist are misplaced. Horses for courses but the R5 (albeit at high price) combines speed/AF/mp/weather sealing/high ISO performance to keep me happy for a long time to come
 

Czardoom

EOS RP
Jan 27, 2020
316
695
Yes but why a smaller and therefore poorer handling body what is this obsession with teeny weeny :cry:
Because the size and weight of the camera is an important "spec." I have an "R" and also an Olympus E-M1 II. My main camera is the Olympus because of the size and weight difference. When the R6 was announced, I was seriously interested in getting one to replace my R. When the size and weight were slightly more than the R, I decided not to get one. That was the determining factor. It doesn't have to be teeny weeny, but smaller and lighter would be welcome for many.
 

Czardoom

EOS RP
Jan 27, 2020
316
695
While not mentioned often, wider DOF is another reason to that a photographer might want an APS-C camera. About 6 years ago, I went from a crop rebel to the FF 6D. Very happy to be "upgrading"! Found out that it wasn't always the "upgrade" that I thought it would be. Found out it is really just another system alternative. For landscapes, it worked great - although there were times that I missed the extra reach. But what I really missed was the wide DOF. I shoot a lot of flowers. Not pure macro, but fairly close up. I found with an FF camera, I could not - in many cases - get the shot I could get with my crop rebel. Ended up getting a crop camera after all, and in those 6 years have owned both APS-C and M4/3. So, while FF certainly has advantages in many areas, it may not be the right camera in certain situations. And that is why some people want and need APS-C. Because it does some things FF can't do as well.
 

David - Sydney

EOS R
CR Pro
Dec 7, 2014
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Would this mean Canon abandons the cheaper entry level FF RF, and replaces it with APS-C?
There is a marketing segment where Canon can state that the RP is the cheapest entry point into the RF multi-verse. Just like there are cheaper BMW/Audi/etc models to get people into their ecosystem. I can see a segment where there is both APS-C and full frame RF but they would need to have similar spec levels corresponding to their marketing segment. A 7D equivalent would between R6 and R5, and a cheaper one (with M6ii/90D sensor) in the RP body at an entry level.
 

David - Sydney

EOS R
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Dec 7, 2014
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While not mentioned often, wider DOF is another reason to that a photographer might want an APS-C camera. About 6 years ago, I went from a crop rebel to the FF 6D. Very happy to be "upgrading"! Found out that it wasn't always the "upgrade" that I thought it would be. Found out it is really just another system alternative. For landscapes, it worked great - although there were times that I missed the extra reach. But what I really missed was the wide DOF. I shoot a lot of flowers. Not pure macro, but fairly close up. I found with an FF camera, I could not - in many cases - get the shot I could get with my crop rebel. Ended up getting a crop camera after all, and in those 6 years have owned both APS-C and M4/3. So, while FF certainly has advantages in many areas, it may not be the right camera in certain situations. And that is why some people want and need APS-C. Because it does some things FF can't do as well.
I didn't notice that issue moving from 7D to 5Diii. With crop you would be further away with the APS-C so not really in closeup range which can be useful not to disturb small subjects. But doesn't full frame give you the option of shallower depth of field but you can always close your aperture when you choose? APS-C won't give you the option of shallower DOF compared to FF.
 
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Chig

Birds in Flight Nutter
Jul 26, 2020
420
505
Orewa , New Zealand
Really hope this is a 7D style camera suitable for Birds in Flight and Macro
My hoped for specs :
Basically the R6 body and feature set including the Digic X processor and DPAFii
Aps-c sensor : either the 32mp one from 90D or preferably a new higher quality one of similar mp but better low light performance
No AA filter
No IBIS
In camera focus bracketing/stacking
Automatic exposure compensation would be a great option, for example when the camera detects the subject such as a bird is dark or light coloured it automatically tweaks the iso up or down as appropriate (I often find I'm shooting say seabirds which are white mostly and a dark coloured bird suddenly appears and I can't adjust my exposure compensation in time)
Similar or slightly lower price than R6
Pop up flash is always useful too
Are you listening Canon ?
Please, pretty please !
 
Last edited:

drama

EOS 90D
Sep 1, 2016
101
244
Because FF at the same pixel density is normally 1. much more expensive and 2. Slower frame rates due to the processor having to process many more pixels.
...but you're not buying a full frame camera. You're buying an APS-C sensor camera. Just one with an RF mount, engineered for full frame glass. Unless we're getting some RF-S lenses, I just don't see how it works - am I being dense? what am I missing?
 

Jasonmc89

EOS 80D
Feb 7, 2019
309
345
UK
Really hope this is a 7D style camera suitable for Birds in Flight and Macro
My hoped for specs :
Basically the R6 body and feature set including the Digic X processor and DPAFii
Aps-c sensor : either the 32mp one from 90D or preferably a new higher quality one of similar mp but better low light performance
No AA filter
No IBIS
In camera focus bracketing/stacking
Similar or slightly lower price than R6
Are you listening Canon ?
Please, pretty please !
Spot on.
 
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LRPP

I'm New Here
Feb 18, 2020
11
27
  • Canon 2972C005 (RF body to EF, EF-S lenses mount adapter) is a real product you can buy
  • Canon 6098B002 (M body to EF, EF-S lenses mount adapter) is a real product you can buy
  • Canon M body to RF lenses mount adapter doesn't exist
  • Canon EF body to RF lenses mount adapter doesn't exist

It seems the future of the (two) APS-C lines has been already written by Canon.