There is an APS-C RF mount camera coming [CR3]

David - Sydney

EOS R
CR Pro
Dec 7, 2014
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1: Less rolling shutter.
2: Higher video specs especially higher frame rates.
3: Faster flash sync speed.
4: Cost less.
5: Better magnification and framing in the viewfinder and back screen.
Which body/sensor (price bracket) are you comparing to?
1. assuming that the read speed from the sensor is faster then the R5 which is already pretty good. Less pixels would mean a faster frame rate assuming the bus speed is the same
2. Is the 7D series known for its video capabilities? Would Canon allow a weather sealed body with great video to be cheaper than the R6?
3. I would love to have a faster flash sync speed but Canon hasn't been above 1/200s for any 5D series as far as I know. I checked and the 7Dii has 1/250s which would be nice
4. Silicon cost would be cheaper but would it be overall cheaper if you include R&D for a new sensor and a lower production runs rather than recycling M6ii/1DXii's sensor?
5. Both the EVF and rear LCD are lower resolution so they are downsampled/pixel binned/line slipped already. Would it be different with an APS-C sensor?
 

David - Sydney

EOS R
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Dec 7, 2014
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Nah. I doubt it will be more than $2k. I'd expect it to compete with the Fuji X-T3, which has all the bells and whistles you've mentioned for $1500. For another ~$300 they could bump the sensor resolution and add IBIS so it would slot above the X-T3.
Does Canon want to compete with Fuji? M43 is a 2x crop vs 1.6 for APS-C and their glass reflects that sensor size.
Would people still buy a R6 if the new APS-C body is weather sealed, more mp and cheaper... with the only benefit being a full frame sensor? I guess that the 7D was exactly that compared to 6D hence me calling it a unicorn.
I am probably wrong as this is a rumour forum but Canon needs to maximise profits in a declining volume market
 

slclick

PINHOLE
Dec 17, 2013
4,591
2,955
Does Canon want to compete with Fuji? M43 is a 2x crop vs 1.6 for APS-C and their glass reflects that sensor size.
Would people still buy a R6 if the new APS-C body is weather sealed, more mp and cheaper... with the only benefit being a full frame sensor? I guess that the 7D was exactly that compared to 6D hence me calling it a unicorn.
I am probably wrong as this is a rumour forum but Canon needs to maximise profits in a declining volume market
The Fuji is a aps-c body fwiw.
 

jam05

R5, C70
Mar 12, 2019
536
346
"The same source also said that there aren’t any plans for RF-S lenses"

Good so far. Sounds like an option for those looking for M6 II / 90 D reach, without paying for the high res R or compromising on ergonomics (M series) or Autofocus (EF series).

A budget option without budget crop exclusive lenses wouldn't make sense to me. Going to f/7.1 and 11 is fine for people moving from APS-C to FF, as it pretty much just compensates the difference. But on a crop body, those apertures literally are a downgrade to many of the available options. And while the 24-105 mm STM 4.0-7.1 is cheap, it is not cheaper than the brighter and longer EF-S 18-135 mm 3.5-5.6 for example.

So this to me sounds like EF-M will remain the compact form factor line and rebels are just going to fade away without a direct APS-C replacement.
M series is selling a lot more cameras than the Rebel at this time
 

unfocused

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Jul 20, 2010
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It will be interesting to see how this all plays out. Not sure why the size would matter if this is a 7DII replacement. The 7D and 5D are almost exactly the same size and I don't believe size was ever a factor in anyone's buying decision for the 7D.

More important will be the button and joystick configuration.

A key question will be sensor resolution and how this will compare to a high resolution full frame "R."

Pricing will be interesting too. I would be surprised if this is priced below the R6. In fact, I expect it to fall somewhere between the R6 and R5 and probably closer to the R5 in price, if this is truly a 7D replacement. The target market for the 7D is not that price sensitive, and the lack of crop-sensor lenses makes be think this will be squarely aimed at well-heeled bird and wildlife shooters.

If Canon can get the supply chain issues resolved, should be an interesting year.
 
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tataylino

EOS M50
Jul 14, 2020
27
29
It is probably beginning of the end of EOS-M line. It won't be too long before they introduce a lower end aps-c after the R7.
 
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privatebydesign

I post too Much on Here!!
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Jan 29, 2011
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Which body/sensor (price bracket) are you comparing to?
1. assuming that the read speed from the sensor is faster then the R5 which is already pretty good. Less pixels would mean a faster frame rate assuming the bus speed is the same
2. Is the 7D series known for its video capabilities? Would Canon allow a weather sealed body with great video to be cheaper than the R6?
3. I would love to have a faster flash sync speed but Canon hasn't been above 1/200s for any 5D series as far as I know. I checked and the 7Dii has 1/250s which would be nice
4. Silicon cost would be cheaper but would it be overall cheaper if you include R&D for a new sensor and a lower production runs rather than recycling M6ii/1DXii's sensor?
5. Both the EVF and rear LCD are lower resolution so they are downsampled/pixel binned/line slipped already. Would it be different with an APS-C sensor?
I was replying to the specific comment “Question, what an APS-C sensor will do better than than the FF R5?”. All my points are facts borne from the physics of larger vs smaller.

Regarding 5 you are missing my point, in focal length limited situations where cropping a high density ff sensor vs using a native crop sensor. In that situation using a crop sensor camera gives you a narrower fov which often aids in viewing the subject and more accurately composing the picture, it also gives higher magnification.
 
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Skux

EOS 90D
Feb 21, 2020
129
165
I like the idea and it was really only a matter of time.

But as it stands this only makes sense for wildlife and sports shooters. There are no APS-C lenses in the RF lineup, and nothing on the wider end (10mm) that would suit vloggers. You'll just be paying for bigger, heavier, more expensive glass that you aren't getting value from, and at that point you're better off going Sony or Fuji.
 
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David - Sydney

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Dec 7, 2014
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More important will be the button and joystick configuration.
A key question will be sensor resolution and how this will compare to a high resolution full frame "R."
Pricing will be interesting too. I would be surprised if this is priced below the R6. In fact, I expect it to fall somewhere between the R6 and R5 and probably closer to the R5 in price, if this is truly a 7D replacement. The target market for the 7D is not that price sensitive, and the lack of crop-sensor lenses makes be think this will be squarely aimed at well-heeled bird and wildlife shooters.
The joystick is a differentiator between R5/R6 but would you necessarily need it? I haven't been using the R5's joystick very much at all. Eye AF is generally picking the subject accurately so joystick is for choosing between subjects but rear touch screen could also be used. The screen may not be as useful if wearing gloves.
The difference between 17mp (cropped R5 to APS-C) and ~20mp isn't huge and 20mp has been good for 1DX users. Cropping allows for great flexibility for composition as well.
If the APS-C potential buyers aren't price-sensitive then perhaps if they try the R5 then it may meet their needs sufficiently.
 
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David - Sydney

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Dec 7, 2014
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I was replying to the specific comment “Question, what an APS-C sensor will do betten than than the FF R5?”. All my points are facts borne from the physics of larger vs smaller.

Regarding 5 you are missing my point, in focal length limited situations where cropping a high density ff sensor vs using a native crop sensor. In that situation using a crop sensor camera gives you a narrower fov which often aids in viewing the subject and more accurately composing the picture, it also gives higher magnification.
Agreed. I thought that your comments were replying to my post.
I must say that the R5's ability to focus accurately on small/distant subjects is remarkable.
 
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Jasonmc89

EOS 80D
Feb 7, 2019
317
351
UK
YESSS!

Give me focus performance and frames per second on par with the R5, roughly 30MP, IBIS and good weather sealing and I’ll be happy! The only thing I definitely don’t like the sound of though, is the size.. Gotta be at least R6 size.

If you’re going to market an apsc R with only full frame lenses then it’s gotta be a high performance and robust model.
 

navastronia

EOS RP + 5D Classic
Aug 31, 2018
740
885
What happens when you put a 600 or 800mm f/11 lens on an APS-C R-body? 1280mm field of view, in the latter case. That's pretty cool. I wonder about how image quality would compare to using a 1.4x or 2.0x teleconverter on a shorter lens.