There is still discussion internally at Canon about an APS-C EOS R camera

BBarn

EOS M6 Mark II
Nov 2, 2020
56
35
The biggest selling point for APS-C cameras is lower cost and smaller size/weight. Since RF-s lenses are off the table, most of the APS-C benefits would be absent as well. An APS-C RF mount body with big and heavy FF lenses would be out of place in the world of trim Sony and Fuji APS-C cameras. Nikon had the sense to make a couple small and light lenses for their DX Z50.

That leaves the very small birders market for an APS-C body with FF lenses. Maybe some day, well into the future.
 

Mr Majestyk

EOS RP
Feb 20, 2016
419
276
Australia
I hope they move to 1.5x crop sensor if they go to APS-C on RF mount. EF-S was always silly how they limited it's use unlike other makers with their DX lenses.

Not sure why they think there wouldn't be a market for vastly more affordable APS-C cameras. EF-M is a sad joke and should be killed off ASAP.
 

lo lite

EOS 90D
Apr 29, 2014
102
1
49
Hamburg
I really like my tiny M6mkI for street photography because it is so tiny and unobtrusive. This leads to the fact that people do not take you seriously and so behave more naturally. If I would run around with a EOS1 size body, people would shrug and ask: what are those pictures for?
 
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unfocused

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My parsing of the @Canon Rumors Guy post:
There have been countless rumors and opinions of whether or not Canon will be bringing an APS-C camera with an RF mount to market to take the place of the Canon EOS 7D series of DSLRs. Most of the information has been quite vague through the years.

This is a rumor about an RF mount APS-C camera to "take the place of the Canon EOS 7D." It's not about other possible APS-C bodies in the RF mount. So, there is really no point in discussing other options in this thread.

I have been told that Canon has actively been doing market research with select pros and others to see if there is a real demand for such a camera.

Wow! Canon conducts actual market research instead of listening to forum experts who confidently predict that the market is (take your choice) a) huge or b) non-existent.

If true, this probably means we are quite a ways out from seeing an actual product, even if they decide to proceed. Makes sense, as Canon already has enough bodies in the pipeline for 1-2 years anyway (R3, Entry level R, R cinema, R5 s, R1). The good news then is that forum experts will be able to opine on this topic at least through 2022 and maybe even through 2023. Yay!

The EOS M line of Canon cameras is in a state of unknown, though I have reported a few times that the EOS M lineup will ride off into the sunset in its current form in favor of the RF mount.

If correct, this means that Canon has not yet decided what they want to do with the EOS M line. "Unknown" for those who are definition deficient, means a state of uncertainty. As in, no decision has yet been made.

There are zero plans for Canon to make RF-S lenses, and I think this makes a ton of sense.

I don't see this as a significant revelation. Of course there is no need for a specialized RF-S mount. RF bodies automatically adapt to the image circle of the lens. EF-S lenses were needed because you could not physically fit a Canon crop sensor lens on a full frame body without hitting the mirror. (You could, however, fit some third party lenses if you didn't mind the vignetting.) If Canon wanted to make lenses for crop sensors, they would not need to change anything, as the lenses would simply crop on a full frame body, just as adapted EF-S lenses currently do. So, I see this as simply stating the obvious.

Depending on what Canon ultimately decides to do with crop sensor bodies in general for the RF mount, I don't see them releasing a body without at least a couple of crop lenses.

My added two cents:

I think time is the enemy of an R7. The 45mp of the R5 already yields a very adequate 1.6 crop. The 100-500 (if Canon ever delivers them) along with the 600 and 800 f11 lenses already cuts into the "reach challenged" market. The release of an R5s would cut into the R7 market even more.

Then there is the pricing. I must assume that part of Canon's research is to determine a price point for an R7. What's the most they can charge for an R7 and still get people to buy one. My guess is that it has to come in under $3,000, but that's just my guess. I can already hear people whining that it should cost $2,000. Dream on. If Canon's research shows they can only get $2,000 for the body, it don't think it will get developed.
 

privatebydesign

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I think that an ASPC R-mount camera makes a lot of sense, and if so, it should be supported by a few RF-S lenses. You can them mount RF and RF-S lenses without an adapter, similar to mounting EF and EF-S on a crop DSLR. The difference would be that you could also mount an RF-S lens on a full-frame camera, which would then switch into crop mode. This wasn't possible with DSLRs due to mirror clearance issues.

Such a system would provide a clear upgrade path, unlike moving from M to R.
I think the fact that the crop system would need supporting lenses is the fatal flaw of the concept.

Maybe in five or ten years when the current R system is filled out and all production issues overcome then they can diversify the RF system more. At that point the EF-s system will be practically dead anyway so there would be nothing to lose.
 
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jam05

R5, C70
Mar 12, 2019
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Canon should have released the RF mount on the M body. Granted it'd make the M bodies a little taller, but they could then reorganize the internals a bit to be a little shallower or narrower. The bigger mount would force a greater height but no greater volume for the body.

The EF-M lenses would instead be RF mount in this case. They could have the same narrow barrel size with a slight flare at the base to fit the bigger mount. Some clown on this forum I'm now blocking claims such a flare would kill sales for the lens line but I can't see how. Lenses have always sold fine getting big towards the front so I don't see why the reverse would be the case. Just like the camera, the lenses wouldn't increase in volume, and I don't think people care about the diameter of lenses in their backpack or lens shelf at home, but rather the volume.

So among those lenses, some could be small image circle as the EF-M lenses in fact are. But they could also have introduced quite a number of modest primes--which my lens line theory would call consumer or street lenses--with full-sensor image circles, for almost the same cost as small-sensor-image circle. (For instance 24/2.8, 35/2, 50/2 or 85/2.8), the cost of the optics themselves is tiny; more money is surely going into the lens barrel, IS sensors and motors, and so on.) Since these lenses would be not only for the small-sensor cameras but also preparing the way for a potential full-frame sensor camera, they could afford to introduce a few more of them. Let's say. As to why the small-sensor shooter would want them? They'd only be fractionally heavier or more expensive to buy. However they'd probably have far less vignetting. And this would hold out the promise (to the extent the consumers were even aware they were buying full-frame lenses) that the lenses would continue to have serious value used, and that their system would continue on for decades, in both ways protecting their investment.

---------

OK, at this point, we have an alternate-reality full of RF-mount lenses (some with small image circle) and RF-mount cameras with small sensors. If Canon never introduces the full-frame mirrorless, fair enough, no real harm done. Just keep making these small-sensor RF bodies, at some point forget the big-image-circle lenses, and just support this M-like RF ecosystem for decades.

But in fact, Canon, they DID introduce the R with its full-frame sensor. And given the above strategy, then from the very first day there's be not only several more full-sensor lenses available (lenses the RF lineup is sorely missing today, mind you!) but a bunch of compact small-image-circle that, at a pinch, could be used on full-frame bodies.

And note a special ability such a lens would have: it casts a circular image on the full-frame sensor, but you needn't crop it to a specific rectangle at exposure time. You can save the whole image, and in post processing, take a normal 3:2 cut, or a vertical 2:3. Or a square, or whatever. If the camera wasn't leveled you can rotate the image a few degrees without losing pixels. This would give a benefit to using a full-frame R body with a small-circle lens that you wouldn't have with a small-sensor body. In short this combination would be mid-way between the current R and M lines in power and resolution.

I wish Canon had gone down this road. I wish I could just put the 22/2 or 18-55 zoom on my R body now and then, when I wanted something smaller in my backpack than my 24-120 but didn't want to go buy an entire second M outfit to have more portability and more importantly invest the huge time commiting the new system to muscle memory, establishing the workflow, and so on.
Total BS. The sector and user group of the M50 and M6 are NOT professional, wedding, or the traditional users of apsc cameras. People need to get over the sensor and mount trip. The belief that every consumer purchases a camera device based on the mount or sensor is a falacy.
 

-pekr-

EOS R5
CR Pro
Canon can't afford to support a 5th lens mount with RF-s lenses. If they did then only wide angle RF-s lenses would be needed as the range of RF glass or adapted EF glass is excellent!
I'll fix it for you - the 5 lens mounts of Canon is just a myth of few ppl here. EF is a dead end - no new lenses will ever be developed. EF-S is a complete dead end. EF-M is a well isolated niche, which you can't adapt and use anywhere else. The only future proof and relevant thing is RF then, so better just remember those two letters :)
 
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jam05

R5, C70
Mar 12, 2019
511
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An apsc R mount camera won't have anything to do with the M50 or M6. Different user group. Its the body ergonomics and size NOT the sensor inside.
 

Skux

EOS 90D
Feb 21, 2020
128
165
Canon A-2.

It's time for Canon to jump into the retro-style market with a Canon A-1-inspired mirrorless camera. Full frame, APS-C, who cares as long as it looks cool.

They'll never do it, and I'll never stop asking for it :ROFLMAO:
 
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tomsop

EOS M6 Mark II
Mar 23, 2012
80
12
Wouldn't it be cool if a Canon representative made himself available for questions - like Tim Cook sitting down for an interview. All we do is waste energy, speculate and surmise because Canon refuses to have direct conversations with their customers.
 

sanj

EOS R5
Jan 22, 2012
3,916
822
I wish and hope Canon updates it's crop cameras and launches new lenses with it. Without compact, lighter lenses that go with the camera, I would not be interested in the crop camera.
 

privatebydesign

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I wish and hope Canon updates it's crop cameras and launches new lenses with it. Without compact, lighter lenses that go with the camera, I would not be interested in the crop camera.
Even those that think there is a case for an R7 can’t justify a market for lenses to go with it.

There is one ‘serious photographers’ APS game in town, Fuji, and they make their camera sales profit on instant film cameras not APS digital cameras and niche lenses, nice though they are. I don’t understand why anybody think Canon have an interest in moving into that market space when the only serious manufacturer in it doesn’t even make much money.
 
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peconicgp

R6, M6mkII
Oct 18, 2017
12
10
Connecticut, USA
Who knows maybe Canon tries to keep pace and converts the M line into a retro-styled apsc line of cameras? Fuji does and now Nikon has developed a retro-style camera....
 

David - Sydney

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I'll fix it for you - the 5 lens mounts of Canon is just a myth of few ppl here. EF is a dead end - no new lenses will ever be developed. EF-S is a complete dead end. EF-M is a well isolated niche, which you can't adapt and use anywhere else. The only future proof and relevant thing is RF then, so better just remember those two letters :)
I'm not sure that anything is "fixed". Canon is supporting 4 different lens systems now. That can't be disputed.

RF lenses are the future for Canon. Canon has needed to flesh out their RF lens system as a priority to suit the new bodies so it is not surprising to anyone that no other lenses have been released since 2018.

New EF lenses may not be released but it certainly isn't dead by any means and will be available for sale and supported for at least a decade to come. Some EF and EF-s lenses will be discontinued over that period though but RF lenses all bring some additional features to the table over any roughly similar EF counterparts... even for RF400/2.8 and RF600/4. Canon will be happy to take your money for either EF or RF lenses.

5 lens mounts are needed if canon emulated Nikon's Z crop sensor system if you want to develop a mid cost solution. I am putting M series in the low cost segment but it will never have EF-m telephotes when adapted EF lenses can be used. I can see the argument for a higher end crop sensor but don't think that RF-s lenses will be required as reach is everything. EF-s wide angle lenses can be used if those users want wide angle. My money is that the EF-s 10-22mm will be the last EF-s lens available for sale.
 

David - Sydney

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I wish and hope Canon updates it's crop cameras and launches new lenses with it. Without compact, lighter lenses that go with the camera, I would not be interested in the crop camera.
Cheaper/lighter RF lenses will come with time. A classic RF ~40mm/2.8 pancake is an obvious one as the EF version + adapter doubles the cost and size.

A low end APS-C R mount system would be hard to justify with between M at the very small/light crop market and rumoured $800 full frame body (like Sigma fp) if cheap/small RF lenses are released.
 

privatebydesign

I post too Much on Here!!
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Every time this comes up, self-styled experts will opine that there is no longer any market for APS-C. I cannot say for other niches, but those who express these opinions completely fail to understand the nature photography niche and understand how big it is. We're not necessarily talking about pro nature shooters here, but general bird and macro photographers. The niche is massive. Who do you think buys all those high end binoculars and scopes. The simply fact is if you use FF, you inevitably end up cropping it to less than APS-C size - I mean nearly every photo. I shoot FF as well. I am speaking from experience.
Why do you think macro photography is better when using a smaller sensor?
 

sanj

EOS R5
Jan 22, 2012
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Dont crop cameras make up bulk of camera sales? Then why say that Canon would not be interested?
 
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