There's More to a Camera System Than Just the Gear

Canon Rumors Guy

Canon EOS 40D
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Jul 20, 2010
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There’s an<a href="http://petapixel.com/2016/03/14/photographer-matt-granger-ditching-sony/" target="_blank"> interesting article on PetaPixel</a> about Australian professional photographer Matt Granger and his experience with the Sony A7 cameras and the level  of support you receive when you own Sony gear in Australia.</p>
<p>His experiences seem to mimic mine in Canada, the quality of service from Sony Canada is abysmal at best. I’ve had a number of items that have needed repair, and every single one of them took more than 12 weeks to get back to me, and one of the items I haven’t seen for 6 months.</p>
<p>I  tracked all of our Canon repairs when Lens Rentals Canada was open, and 90% of the repairs done by Canon Canada took less than 2 weeks door-to-door.</p>
<p>From Matt Granger</p>
<blockquote><p>“It all comes down to <em>service</em>,” Granger <a title="" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apCc5JD4PYs" target="_blank" rel="external">writes</a>. “For many types of my work the gear itself is suitable for me. The sensors are quality. The images and video are outstanding. For other work I have never used them (rough conditions, tricky focus).”</p>
<p>“But with service like this – I just can’t use them at all.”</p></blockquote>
<p>Service isn’t going to be great every time, but it should be more often than not. In Canada, I recommend joining the <a href="http://www.canon.ca/inetCA/en/categoryHome/msegid/5/catid/4345" target="_blank">Canon Canada CPS program</a>, even if you’re not a professional, you can qualify for the Gold level of service and support.</p>
<p>The quality of image that the Sony system can produce is outstanding, but I don’t feel it’s worth being without a camera or lens for months if something goes wrong.</p>
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axtstern

EOS M(ediochre)
Jun 12, 2012
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Depends on where in the world you are.

I d not earn money with my gear but a failing central piece of my equipment still hurts.
However my situation is special. A lot of very old Canon gear, a lot of thirdparty.

My strategy is usually: Avoid single failure when you take your equipment to anywhere it counts.
If it breaks outside of the 1, 3 or 5 year warranty or if it broke because I dropped it:
Buy a newer, better or more sexy substitue to apieve my GAS and take the broken warrior on my next China trip. The various camera shop sprawls in the larger Chinese cities always have skilled tinkerers who stangely have all that spareparts Canon has ceased to provide. Also 3rd party lenses especially the expensive Sigma zooms like the 120-300 seem often to fail with the rolls running inthe bearings of the zoom mechanism. A major finacial pain in Europe, a 50 Euro operation in China. Canon lenses are spread enough over the world to allow you to find people who can deal with them. The more exotic manufacturers (including Sony) simply never reached critical mass.
 
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neuroanatomist said:
Refurb7 said:
But ... but ... but ... Sony has 4K. And mirrorless. So it must be good. ;)

The sensor, man...the sensor!! Nothing else matters... ::)
So, IF Canon's new generation of Sensors+ADC improves Low ISO Dynamic Range, they will reduce the quality of service accordingly?
 
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Jul 21, 2010
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JohanCruyff said:
neuroanatomist said:
Refurb7 said:
But ... but ... but ... Sony has 4K. And mirrorless. So it must be good. ;)

The sensor, man...the sensor!! Nothing else matters... ::)
So, IF Canon's new generation of Sensors+ADC improves Low ISO Dynamic Range, they will reduce the quality of service accordingly?

Sure – after copying their sensor, why not copy Sony's innovatively poor service? ;)
 
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Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
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kaptainkatsu said:
Service is everything. That is why for my primary job, 99% of the time I buy Snap-on tools. If I have any problems, I call my dealer, he's at my shop within a week and fixes/replaces no questions asked.

I broke one of their 3/4 inch drive 2 1/2 inch sockets..... The Snap-on guy showed up at 8:00am next morning and said "you get a free replacement but you have to tell me how you broke it". Despite having used an 8' long "handle extension", they still claimed it should not have happened and the guy opened up a new set to give me my replacement socket as they did not have any loose spares of that size..... Now that's service!
 
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This is the main (perhaps only) reason I chose Canon over Nikon about 16 years ago when I wanted to switch to an autofocus (film) system. I had been using Pentax K1000. I was leaning towards a newly released Nikon model, I think it was N90S, so I filled in a photo magazine reply card to Nikon for information. Several weeks, no information arrived. So I called their 800 number, request appropriate brochures, they took my address, several weeks nothing arrived. I thought if they cannot even respond to a potential new user who wants to buy their equipment, they must have terrible service and I do not want to deal with them.

So I called Canon 800 number and in less than a week several brochures were in my mailbox. Based on that experience I bought the Canon Elan2e (and eventually a second one) which were my main cameras for about a decade.

Another important factor (that has nothing to do with sensors, dynamic range, etc) is overall feel and ease of use. I taught camera classes at a local photo lab and the layout of Nikon bodies is far less intuitive than Canon bodies. Even my co instructor who is a Nikon user himself often had a hard time finding how to change functions on Nikons.
 
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I have to agree completely. As a working pro (going into my 40th year doing this!), service is paramount. When I finally went digital in 2003, a buddy of mine who is an Olympus Visionary, connected me with Olympus and the E-1. They had their OGPS (Olympus Global Professional Service) and to great care of us working pros. Then they went through some issues corporate wide and service became non-existent beginning in 2010. We put out the call to both Canon and Nikon to check out demo gear for the studio, and something very interested happened.
The Canon rep drove four and a half hours out to our studio, spent the day with us, and set us up with demo gear. He also made a personal introduction to the head of CPS and made sure we had everyone's contact info. In the mean time, we didn't so much as even get a return phone call or e-mail from Nikon. I had shot professionally with Nikon in the late 1970's, so I figured I had at least a chance with them!
We have been with Canon ever since, and I must say their service is unsurpassed! We all know that things will stop working sooner or later, or they get dropped and damaged. I love the fact that there is someone in our corner on the gear side!
 
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Canon service has been amazing. Already told the story a few times where a kid knocked my 5D MK III out of my hands and cracked the casing near the hot shoe - under 1 week turn around and far cheaper than I expected. Would not have been worth an insurance claim, that is for sure. Love CPS, they have always treated me well and super fast. Heard the stories about Nikon and my three main reasons for Canon were 1) The Glass, 2) The Service, 3) The presence.

Canon products, especially glass, seems to hold the value well, and given they have a larger presence, often easier to find products on secondary market. Some of the Nikon offerings as of late have been a little tempting, but for those few thinks I like better, there is far more I don't want to give up.
 
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Aug 11, 2010
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when my brother-in-law decided to get into photography as a hobby, we had a long discussion of whether or not he should go Sony or Canon. as a computer science guy, he was initially enamored of Sony as a company really pushing the technical envelope. browsing some forums, he deduced that Canon was imminently in fear of death due to not shoving all the best technical goodies into the 5D Mark III and this further convinced him to go Sony.

so I discussed the concept that the OP has pointed out, that when you buy an interchangeable lens camera, you are buying into a system. Sony doesn't come close to matching Canon's system. it's clear that Sony wins if you want a mirrorless body, or if you want lots and lots of bells and whistles. to me though, that's pretty much where the Sony wins stop.

lens selection: only Nikon can even come close to Canon. Sony is decades away from having the comprehensive lens portfolio that Canon provides to EF-mount users. and with lens rentals becoming a thing, you really do have affordable access to every single one of those EF-mount lenses.

lens cost: Sony lenses are generally more expensive than their equivalent performing Canon counterparts.

customer support: even for non-pros, we sometimes break things. I busted a 16-35mm f/2.8 L lens horribly, it got shipped out to Canon, fixed, sent back like-new, and has kept on working for four years now. cost me a little north of $200 at the time, and only took a week between sending it out in a box and getting it back in my hand. not using CPS, just support for regular joes.

ubiquity: in a similar vein, if you were to lose/drop/destroy a lens while traveling somewhere else in the world during a long trip, I'm pretty sure the first camera store you waltz into will have something that can mount to your EF or EF-S camera. not so confident about Sony.

confidence in system: Sony has been all over the map with their camera offerings. they're doing what we refer to in the corporate world as "throw it against the wall and see what sticks". you've got A-mount, you've got A-mount DT, you've got E-mount, you've got E-mount FE... now it's NEX, now it's just Alpha, now it's DSLRs, now it's pellicle mirror DSLRs, now it's mirrorless. Sony is a massive corporation that could easily write off their entire camera division and just dedicate themselves to sensors, or rededicate themselves to cell phones, or pull out altogether and focus on any of the thousand other things that Sony does (basically, pull a Samsung). Canon's got other divisions but their camera unit is a fundamental part of their corporate identity. where some people see lack of innovation and boring products when they view the Canon M-line and unwillingness to go crazy with EF-S and EF DSLRs, I actually see a very reassuring constancy in product lineup that makes me confident in continuing to buy their products.

the stuff you don't see: read Roger Cicala's lens teardowns and look at how Canon is paying attention to designing its circuit boards and barrels for robustness and ease of service. also read his experiences with different companies from the perspective of a vendor. check out the Canon CPS room at the Super Bowl or the Olympics. this is why Canon is the apex predator in the photo world. people on forums always talk about how "it's so simple, why can't Canon see this one thing" when in reality, it's Canon that sees millions of tiny details that you, the casual shooter and forum browser, are missing. and it's those things that actually make the biggest impact on the bottom line.

the doom-and-gloom is overhyped: I laughed when my brother-in-law told me the part about how if Canon doesn't "fix" the 5D Mark III with the 5D Mark IV, it's doomed. I told him that everyone on forums said the same thing about ... pretty much every other Canon DSLR ever. I've been around long enough to remember the complaints about the 5D Mark II, the 50D, the 7D, the 1D Mark IV, the 1DX, the 7D Mark II, the 6D... and yet each of these products releases, they sell fantastically, and you walk around and see them in the hands of tons of people who shoot seriously and casually. I told him to actually keep track as we were on vacation and see how many people were shooting with Canon DSLRs versus Fuji, Olympus, Sony, Panasonic, and Nikon bodies. not just draw a data set from one anecdote, or one day, or your impressions from one moment, but very seriously keep track of every camera body you see. we saw a TON of canons.

and finally, word of mouth: when your product occupies a large part of the market, it's easy to find people with lenses that are compatible with your camera. while I'm not a professional, I have photographed for half a dozen weddings as the primary photographer. I've been able to swap lenses with the video guy because, hey, we're both shooting Canon. I've been able to swap lenses with coworkers for fun because, hey, we both shoot Canon. nowadays my brother-in-law swaps lenses with me because, hey, he wound up buying a 6D and loving it.

props to the OP for starting this thread. I don't think it will be read or appreciated that much by the folks who like to come here and whine about Canon, but it needs to be pointed out time and again to new folks who haven't had an opportunity yet to see or understand the whole package that Canon offers.
 
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AcutancePhotography said:
I guess I have been lucky. I have been shooting 35mm/DSLR since 1980 and I have never had to send in any camera equipment in for servicing.

I don't really consider the servicing in my purchasing decisions. But then, I am a hobbyist.

Depends... on the initial cost. For something that cost a few hundred dollars with a repair cost of a few hundred, the quality/availability of service is not that important. For something that cost a few thousand dollars with repair costs in the hundreds, then service can be important. And it's not just to address manufacturer defects. It is also for user-induced damage (i.e. drops).

I'm a hobbyist too, but my 5DIII started giving me intermittent error codes after a couple years of use (past the warranty period). It cost several hundred for the repair, but that was far cheaper than buying a camera to replace it.
 
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Dec 11, 2015
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Never dealt with the Sony photo service, but dealt with their laptop repair service. TL;DR, but if somebody's interested - read on. I had ~$3000 VAIO Z laptop and one of the USB ports broke. I had an on-site repair warranty, so a technician popped up in a few days after my call, and that's not bad. The bad thing - he had no parts to replace at all, no idea what he expected to do on site though... He ordered a PCB with the port and showed up next week and suddenly realized the broken port is actually soldered onto the motherboard (left side), and it's not the PCB he got (right side). Nice... He offered to mail the laptop to a Sony repair facility in CA. A week later I got the laptop back repaired but with a broken lid sensor. Called Sony again, spent a little over 1 hr explaining that it's not a "driver issue" and I did "turned it off and on again", talked to a few "supervisors" and finally got a confirmation to send the laptop back to CA. A week after got the laptop back fully functioning, it worked happily ever after for about a year and then motherboard died but it was out of warranty already :)
So you may ask did I learn a lesson? Yes I did - when the ISO dial stopped clicking on my A7r I just sold the camera on eBay and didn't mess with the Sony service. The Sony stuff is good while it's working. If you buy something from Sony - make sure to buy their best and longest warranty, and consider the warranty price as a part of the actual equipment you're buying. And unfortunately it still means nothing if the service sucks.
 
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