Update: The Canon EOS R3 will be officially announced on June 29th

Danglin52

Wildlife Shooter
Aug 8, 2018
313
340
You misunderstand me.

YES, by ALL MEANS sell two if you can affordably engineer and market two.

But is Canon releasing two cameras?

No. In fact the rumor mill says after the R3 the next TWO cameras will be cheap models, if I recall correctly.

So they're not "selling two," they're selling one and leaving the other market (slow/hi-IQ) unserved. (Well, we DO have the R5, which is awesome; I was just hoping to move from R to R3, but maybe I have to do R to R5 to R1???)

Now I'd agree with you that having two market segments, and serving one now, and the other at least 3 cameras later, if that is their strategy, MIGHT be more profitable than my proposal of a slow/hi-MP camera tweaked so it can also produce lo-MP images as quickly as a lo-MP camera could. But maybe its not.

I've worked six years of my career in Japanese firms in Japan in Japanese, and while everyone here seems to think they're geniuses at making these decisions, the way it works is there will be a group with some rough consensus but where most group members are afraid to push their opinion much at all, a senior person will tweak that consensus, and at that point NOBODY CAN QUESTION IT. It is FINAL. You see that constantly. The Fukushima reactor decided to move the backup generators up to the hilltop to keep them safe from tsunami. Smart move! But the extension cords weren't available. So did they delay moving the generator? OMG NO, it was a FINAL DECISION THAT IT BE MOVED so they moved it despite literally every person in the reactor knowing that it would leave them with no power if the main generator stopped. So then later they were flying in supplies to the villages cut off by the radiation zones. A helicopter is hovering literally 1 meter off the ground while the ground crew is yelling at him that the airport is closed, therefore he cannot land, and that decision is FINAL and cannot be changed even to get drinking water to thirsty residents. Go back to the Tokaimura Incident, where the entire reactor staff knew certain steps involved mixing plutonium by hand in a god damned bucket. I am not kidding. Staff in a hurry tried to do a double-batch and pop went the weasel. The bucket part wasn't part of the decided procedure, but the decided procedure was basically missing a step and you couldn't make the reactor run without improvising that step. But the decision on the procedure was final, even though it was known to be dangerous.

I've also worked in Swiss companies in German and Canadian companies in English. Big companies aren't totally freewheeling and open to alternate opinions even in the West, but they're far more open than in Japan. Anyway, YES, Canon surely has some kind of plan, and you guys seem to think it must therefore be a great plan. But I know how these plans are cooked up and I don't share your confidence.

> this camera will be probably be a very nice solution with better high ISO

I mentioned elsewhere but my theory is that down-sampling a hi-MP camera, especially a back-side sensor, down to a lo-MP sensor's resolution, will give you approximately the same noise as that lo-MP sensor.
I was only responding to your comment about understanding market segmentation. I acknowledged in my post that their decision could be a mistake and only time would justify or condemn their approach. The merit of their strategy would also depend on their product release plans which none of those outside the company or NDA are aware. They did a great job of keeping the R3 under wraps and close to unknown until the actual development announcement. I know there has been debate about the camera being relabeled from an R1 due to competition, but anyone with product development and marketing knowledge knows you don't change a direction close to launch (you stated this yourself). It would be nice to have a camera that does it all, but many times the Swiss Army knife approach manages to do a lot of things while not doing all of them in an optimized manner. They continue to expand the base technology platform, but keep layering on more compute and data bandwidth intensive tasks that bump up against the platform limits. As to creating multiple resolution of files from a larger sensor, I experimented with this on my R5 compared to an R6 I rented for a trip to YNP. While the downsized R5 files @ 12,800 were not bad, I felt the R6 files were "crisper" with less noise when shot in similar lighting situations. I switched lenses for the test and the light was consistent between shots (an elk grazing late afternoon around sunset). These were natural high ISO shots vs just cranking the ISO up to 12,800 in bright sunlight.

The R3 should work for me since I shoot wildlife and it has higher FPS, improved tracking and will probably deliver better high ISO performance with the new sensor. It would have been a tougher decision at less than 30mp since I wanted a bit of room for crop than the R6 I considered. I ALWAYS carry a backup body and it doesn't have to identical, jus in the same family. I held off buying a second R5 or R6 as a backup hoping Canon would release the R1. Assuming everything holds, I will carry the R3 as primary when shooting wildlife and the R5 when higher resolution or backup is needed. I sold the 1dx II for the R5 and feel the +/- balance out for the R5 in my use case.

On a final note, this is effectively their first large product backlight/stacked sensor with production capacity limitations. Canon is conservative and may want to test the waters in a full production versions at the lower res before they launch into high resolution sensor. While they probably already have test runs of a higher res sensor, they may still need to work out production issues before they bet on a pro level introduction. So, the higher resolution sensor you want may be technically "finished" it may not be ready for prime time yet. Introducing the in R3 gives them a test bed, ramp up production and. be prepared to put there name behind the high res sensor in an R1.

Companies are definitely NOT infallible because they are directed by people.

David
 
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Tangent

EOS 90D
Nov 13, 2015
143
94
So rumor has it that the RP will be replaced by a downmarket camera and an upmarket camera that will also serve as an R replacement. Call it the RP+.

That said, is it too much to hope the RP+ will have this new 30.1 MP backside illuminated sensor? (Or something similar with the new tech?) That would be great. More DR and yes to IBIS. Still keep it reasonably compact.
 
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Sep 17, 2014
804
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So rumor has it that the RP will be replaced by a downmarket camera and an upmarket camera that will also serve as an R replacement. Call it the RP+.

That said, is it too much to hope the RP+ will have this new 30.1 MP backside illuminated sensor? (Or something similar with the new tech?) That would be great. More DR and yes to IBIS. Still keep it reasonably compact.

You can be 100% sure the RP replacement won't have the R3's sensor or anything similar. In best case scenario it will get the R6's sensor or something similar.
 
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Chig

Birds in Flight Nutter
Jul 26, 2020
532
802
Orewa , New Zealand
Bit let down. The Sony A1 is 50 MP and just as fast. I hope the AF really performs.
Well the AF isn't as good in the A1 as in the R5/R6 anyway and resolution isn't everything.
Sony claims the A1 can shoot 30fps but in reality it struggles to get even half of those shots in focus with fast moving subjects so it's just marketing fluff, whereas the R5 and R6 can get 90-95% of their 20fps in focus and I think the R3 will be similar.
If the A1 is their professional flagship body then it's not very serious competition to the R5 let alone the R3 or 1DXiii
The A1 can only shoot 20fps RAW the 30fps is limited to compressed RAW, heif or jpeg
 
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AEWest

EOS RP
Jan 30, 2020
410
513
Now I'm thinking about selling my 1DX mkiii and picking up the R3 this summer but do I hold out for a R1...? It has to at least have specs this great.
The R1 may well be a slower shooting high MP studio camera rather than a sports camera. So the right choice may depend on your type of photography.
 
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Chig

Birds in Flight Nutter
Jul 26, 2020
532
802
Orewa , New Zealand
The R1 may well be a slower shooting high MP studio camera rather than a sports camera. So the right choice may depend on your type of photography.
I doubt the R1 will be anything other than an all out sports camera and if anything the resolution may be lower and the fps higher(say 20mp and 45fps for example), Canon will probably make a high resolution version of the R5 like the 5Ds and 5DsR
 
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Chig

Birds in Flight Nutter
Jul 26, 2020
532
802
Orewa , New Zealand
Is it stacked sensor? the description just mentions BSI.
  • 30.1mp backside illuminated image sensor (A Canon first)
Canon's own website says : "The first EOS series camera to feature a full frame, back illuminated, stacked CMOS sensor for high-speed readout, and DIGIC X for high-speed image processing. Combined to deliver 30 frames per second with AF/AE tracking when using the electronic shutter, and significantly reduced image warping.⁣"

However Canon still hasn't officially mentioned 30mp anywhere as far as I know
 
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vignes

EOS M50
Oct 19, 2017
46
48
Australia
Canon's own website says : "The first EOS series camera to feature a full frame, back illuminated, stacked CMOS sensor for high-speed readout, and DIGIC X for high-speed image processing. Combined to deliver 30 frames per second with AF/AE tracking when using the electronic shutter, and significantly reduced image warping.⁣"
CR should fix the info....
 
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AEWest

EOS RP
Jan 30, 2020
410
513
I doubt the R1 will be anything other than an all out sports camera and if anything the resolution may be lower and the fps higher(say 20mp and 45fps for example), Canon will probably make a high resolution version of the R5 like the 5Ds and 5DsR
Why would Canon follow up a pro body sports camera with another one? Why would anyone need 45 fps? May as well use video.

The Nikon Z9 will be their flagship with likely 50 MP, and a pro body. Canon won't challenge it with an R5 body camera. I expect the R1 to have at least 60 MP, probably more.
 
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reef58

EOS RP
CR Pro
Apr 16, 2016
448
463
North Carolina
youtu.be
You really don't seem to understand how logic works.

When you say the 1DX3 does EVERYTHING better than the R, and I say you're full of it, I am not saying the 1DX3 does NOTHING better than the R. Instead I'm saying the 1DX3 does NOT do everything better than the R. I win that argument by even having ONE thing the R does better, and I think we've mentioned a half-dozen. Hell, you mentioned at least three for me.

How do you not know that the contrary of "everything" is "not everything?" Who told you the contrary of "everything" is "nothing?" How did an adult become an adult without understanding this? I'm honestly flummoxed. And I'm a little scared to think fellow citizens, fellow voters, actually don't even understand basic things like this.




I gave a list of quite a few ways the R beats a 1DX3. Where the heck do you get the idea "all I care about is MP?" (In point of fact my favorite benefit of the R is the RF lenses. If I could take just one superior ability, it'd be the lenses.)
You seem to be the one struggling with logic, but carry on.
 
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I am currently R5 shooter , mostly shoot Alpime Ski racing and freestyle skiing. I shot the Sony A9 then the A9ll yet even before the official announcement of the A1, Sony had said they were not going to make a “real” full size pro body with integrated battery grip so at the time the R5 had just came out so I dumped my complete Sony system and took a chance on the R5, Shooting the entire past winter with the R5 with battery grin, the RF 100-500 primarily I was very happy with the results especially when switching from 12fps mechanical to 20fps electronic shutter, I found the mechanical shutter for me was a big battery hog.
Really looking forward to the R3 this winter season though I was hoping for 45mp, I found having the extra megapixe’s was extremely helpful that opened up excellent cropping options. I am still keeping an eye on the Nikon Z9 and see how quickly they can release longer Z glass.
Excitng times to be a sports photographer
 
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EOS 4 Life

EOS 5D Mark IV
Sep 20, 2020
1,556
1,256
The R1 may well be a slower shooting high MP studio camera rather than a sports camera. So the right choice may depend on your type of photography.
Canon has made it clear that R3 is not their pro sports mirrorless camera so we can expect that will either be the R1 or R1x.
 
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john1970

EOS R3
CR Pro
Dec 27, 2015
556
716
Northeastern US
I will likely purchase a R3 and like others do think of what Canon will eventually put into their future top of the line mirrorless system, the R1. My instincts tell me that the R1 will likely have dual CFE type B cards, AF superior to R3 (quad pixel AF), and maybe a quad bayer sensor with a global sensor with faster e-shutter of 40 fps. I still place my bets that Canon releases a R1 for the winter Olympics in 2022 and I would not be surprised if the MP resolution of the R1 and R3 are essentially the same.
 
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InchMetric

Switched from Nikon. Still zooming the wrong way.
CR Pro
Jun 22, 2021
245
269
Availability will be a key question mark. The agencies and CPS members will likely get theirs first, the rest of us low lifes will have to wait.

Good old Tony Northrup doesn't think we'll see the R3 untill 2022, maybe even the second half. That sounds way too long a wait, may as well not announce it then. I believe late fall of this year is most likely.
Everyone who orders one the first day will get one the first day it is shipped. Like everything ever.
 
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