What’s next for the Canon EOS R5 and Canon EOS R6?

[chik0240]

I've had a couple hours to test the R5, and Wahhhhhhh overheating, it is garbage and I'm so mad that Canon personally cheated me! I was going to shoot cat videos and weddings in 8K for 6 hours every day but this thing is stupid and an obvious failure. It should only cost 50 dollars. Canon is doomed and crippled us again. I just threw it off my balcony. Just kidding .

The real scoop: So far it is great and I am not encountering anything but being mostly impressed. Adjusting to the form factor of a smaller body and the new controls, etc. but so far so good. Some notes from my first play time:

This is going to make shooting very pleasant and more convenient, and be a robust stills camera in all light and weather, and competent video camera for light and mid duty jobs in moderate to good light. The build feels very solid and elegant and the body is clearly well thought out for the most part. The only thing I have found that is a real negative, is the grip is more squared and smaller than most FF DSLRs and is not nearly as comfortable, and the controls feel a bit close together which is an advantage for reaching some and disadvantage for others.

Ergonomics:

• The thing is silent in electronics shutter and pretty darn quiet mechanical.
• Not a fan of the smaller size and less rounded grip compared to a DSLR. Space and comfort are slightly reduced and controls are not as perfectly placed. It isn't awful, but is the thing I like least so far. I will be buying an L bracket to hopefully make it larger and better balanced. Canon and industry should calm down with the one camera for all purposes and leave pro gear pro- and large for comfort. Also would be easier to pack in features and cool probably.
• The screen is very high quality and great touch response. Articulation feels solid, like it will not be fragile unless you really screw up and ram it into something. Visually, it is on par with a good phone screen, just smaller.
• I still love an optical viewfinder and how much more natural that feels, but there are many advantages to EVF and with this one, it is not awful to look through. You can shoot, operate the menus, and review all in the viewfinder. I particularly like how much larger images look reviewing in the viewfinder.
• Screen and VF brightness lowered from default by one tick look best to me indoors and should save power unless I need the brightness.
• The timeout on the screen and VF can be lowered, but not as far as I think it should be. I want max power savings. The 5D4 had a 2 second timeout on review of images and I think this screen and VF should have that low of an option too. The lowest is 15 seconds currently. You can turn off either VF or screen in menus but would prefer short auto off time options .
• The menu system and display options on screen and in viewfinder will suit anyone, they have done a really great job offering many options for info display and control setup. So many ways to customize to a simple workflow for most tasks. Still miss quick control custom layouts though.
• Batteries fully interchangeable with previous ones, even off brand.
• The magnesium alloy seems different composition, maybe to enhance thermal conductivity closer to copper since the body is the heat sink surface? I can feel the body take heat form my hands very slightly, and that should help dissipate heat from inside. After a long session of constantly playing with everything the body felt barely warm at 78-80 degrees ambient.
• There is a very subtle quiet clunk if you move the un-powered body in a direction with hard enough motion (takes a good shake). This is the IBIS mechanism, which when un-powered, allows the sensor to float on the IBIS suspension. I don't think this rattles at all as some have said. It feels solid still and to me the sound is no bother. When powered, does not happen.
• All buttons seem well placed. The dials are decently placed but a bit close on the top for my large hands. The joystick is up too high but not awfully so. Not nearly so cramped as many mirrorless bricks, but I still wish this smaller-is-better mentality, when we are talking about pro equipment, would stop. Portable stuff should be a niche market. By comparison, the 5D4 feels luxuriant and more natural in the hand. Large lenses also look dumb on a mirrorless but whatever.
• I love the top screen, which I think is e-ink like any kindle and displays the mode even when off .
• You can operate the mode dial like the old one without looking down. Better, you can remove modes you will not use from that rotation order. It could be just a few modes if you want, like Av, M, B, C1, or any other list you desire.
• Everything feels intuitive for the most part. Video configuration and shooting is just easy, and you get good info as you select options about shooting times, etc. Stills basic settings are accessible in several screens and via the dials of course. Getting to deep settings is never more than a couple buttons or touches and much can be customized. Very easy to use overall for any shooter, particularly Canon shooters, and hoping I will get as comfortable with it, or more, as the 5D4 over time.

Performance so far:

• The focus system is amazing. So fast compared to 5D4 even in low light. So many options for different scenarios. Tracking on objects works well but I have not tried face or animal modes yet, but I can tell there is a lot of ability here. Machine learning and later firmware may make this even better still. It is already class leading and 100% coverage focus points is great. Video focus seems reliable, effortless and easy. For stills, I cannot figure out how to get the focus point to move when I move the joystick without first pressing the focus spot button. Time to read the manual.
• I got something near but slightly below the 20FPS with an old 24-105 EF mk1 and off brand battery in a quick unscientific burst test of about 50 images. In electronic shutter only, this thing flies. It did take a while to write the buffer out to my midgrade SD card but I had plenty more buffer to go if I had wanted it.
• IBIS is great. I handheld a 1/6 second on my old 3 stop 24-105 and it was almost as sharp as a 1/100 so I am getting at least 4-5 stops on an old EF lens and could never have hand held that before.
• Image quality looks like a good step up form the 5D4 in clarity, noise, high ISO, and color (slightly). I have only done some quick tests so this is just first impressions. Some reviewers are saying the Canon sensor stills quality is out there with the best of them now, and while the base DR is not the absolute top of the pack, it is not far behind, very good and improved. At high ISO, DR is equal or better than most competitors as it has been since the 5D4 came out with Canon sensors.
• High ISO is looking more usable than the 5D4. Will need to take more subjects to get a better feel. An astrophotography landscape trip ought to put it through the ringer, hopefully I will do that soon.
• Tried some 4K30 and 4K60 low bitrate (haven't bought cards to try higher res or bit rates yet). To me it looks really good compared against my Sony NXCAM HXR-NX80 4K. Of course uncropped full frame, I can get much wider, still clear and sharp with great Canon color, and a way better stabilizer. Haven't done a pixel peeping 4K comparison, but the 5D4 held its own against most 4K options and this should be even better. Won't even get into the nonsense about HQ modes and limits, I did not buy this as a dedicated video camera and don't even have the memory cards for those modes yet. I will still retain dedicated video tools because I don't have this belief any hybrid can do it all yet, and probably not for years to come.
• Shot for only a few minutes of video at a time so far so no comment on heat issues but I doubt for my normal uses I will encounter them. If I need long form video for interviews or documentary (which I only very rarely do) I have a dedicated pro Sony NXCAM camcorder for 1080P (still very appropriate for most jobs) and 4K, and off camera sound capture. That is the most realistic kind of camera for event and documentary work in my opinion. If I was doing full frame video production I would look at the newest Sony, or more likely the SH1, or if I could afford it, a used or new Cinema camera. Hybrids may never do it all just based on engineering trades and physics, despite what all the entitled people think and poor marketing suggestions.

Conclusion so far? Going well, no major regrets. To me, the camera is as advertised as I never latch onto a feature with unrealistic expectation. Field testing on some tough shoots soon should tell me if I love it, but I already like it. Curious to see how others are getting along with their R5/6 if you were able to get one.

how about battery life? I mean say for sports event shooting did you need to change battery? that's where a lot of ppl cares

 

[cornieleous]

I wish some if the settings could be accessed through the display and not having to dig through the menu like switching from animal to person eye tracking, canon log/raw, and slow mo 120. Other than that, I also need to play around with it and find the quirks and stress test the batteries, memory, heating, etc.

Yep I need to put it to some real rigors too, but good so far.

Have you tried custom menus and controls? That greatly sped up my workflow on 5D4. I have a custom menu tab each for settings I need for astro, landscape, etc.

 

[Krispy]

Yep I need to put it to some real rigors too, but good so far.

Have you tried custom menus and controls? That greatly sped up my workflow on 5D4. I have a custom menu tab each for settings I need for astro, landscape, etc.

Yeah. Custom menu is a fraking life saver for my 5DIV. I haven’t assigned anything to the R5 yet. That’s a tomorrow thing.

 

[cornieleous]

how about battery life? I mean say for sports event shooting did you need to change battery? that's where a lot of ppl cares

I would have to go out and shoot long session with many bursts and lots of focus activity to give a good answer for that use case, but playing around for a solid hour with all kinds of things and either screen or EVF on most of that time, taking a few bursts, some video, using the EVF and screen and I was down to 70% from full on an LPE6, not the new higher capacity battery which I haven't charged yet. My guess is a pro reviewer will do that sport or wildlife use case with battery reports before I do, and hopefully report it without hype.

I have airplane mode on, and EVF and screen slightly dimmer than default and get the feeling battery life will not be quite as good as the 5D4, but not too much worse. I'll know more after I do a timelapse, which I have lots of careful data on from the 5D4 to compare against.

 

[Krispy]

Yep I need to put it to some real rigors too, but good so far.

Have you tried custom menus and controls? That greatly sped up my workflow on 5D4. I have a custom menu tab each for settings I need for astro, landscape, etc.

The thing that bugs me is the screen on top stays partially on after you turn the body off. Apparently you can’t turn it off and it’s a thing with the R too, unless you pull out the battery.

 

[quilatoo]

includes all my EF lenses except... EF100mm macro. A bit of a surprise for me although I wouldn't normally shoot high speed burst with it.

That's good news. Unfortunately for me I only have a 16-35mm f4 that will work at 12 fps mechanical, and that isn't something I'd traditionally think of doing (those landscapes aren't hopefully going to be moving at 100mph!).

When it comes to 'real world' reviews I do wish a lot more of the YouTube crowd would do more on the performance of third-party EF lenses, since both Sigma and Tamron upped their game in the past five years or so; making them decent prospects against the native offerings. From what I've seen of the initial R release (and there's no reason to think R5/R6 would be different) they all work fine and in some ways better than on DSLRs, it'd just be good to know what actual limitations there are, including things like using IS and IBIS. Naturally Canon aren't going to be the ones coming out with that info.

The dream is to slap my Sigma 150-600 and 1.4 TC onto an R5 and make genuinely usable with better autofocus above f8 and 12 fps shooting!

 

[-pekr-]

It's probably far too late for this, but the best solution for long high bit-rate record times is a dedicated heat sink. I think Canon might be better served in the long run by bringing two variants to market. Keep the weather sealed R5 and R6 as they are now with their modest recording times and market those to stills photographers. And then release video modified versions (RV5 and RV6 if you will) with a redesigned back to accommodate a vented heat sink (and fan possibly). The rear of the camera would probably look like the monstrously ugly Fuji GFX-50S, but it would certainly take care of the overheating issue.

Please no ... just lead the heat to the bottom plate and solve it by attaching special grip, containing less batteries, a vent or other cooling solution, peltier, whatever.

 

[chrisgibbs]

You can operate the mode dial like the old one without looking down. Better, you can remove modes you will not use from that rotation order. It could be just a few modes if you want, like Av, M, B, C1, or any other list you desire.

That sounds superb, those rotating *hard marked dials* are akin to playing roulette when in a rush, with an eye in the EVF.

 

[chik0240]

I would have to go out and shoot long session with many bursts and lots of focus activity to give a good answer for that use case, but playing around for a solid hour with all kinds of things and either screen or EVF on most of that time, taking a few bursts, some video, using the EVF and screen and I was down to 70% from full on an LPE6, not the new higher capacity battery which I haven't charged yet. My guess is a pro reviewer will do that sport or wildlife use case with battery reports before I do, and hopefully report it without hype.

I have airplane mode on, and EVF and screen slightly dimmer than default and get the feeling battery life will not be quite as good as the 5D4, but not too much worse. I'll know more after I do a timelapse, which I have lots of careful data on from the 5D4 to compare against.

that sounds acceptable, but I doubt it can be just slightly lower than the 5D serise as my old 5D3 can do a whole 10 days vacation with 2 batteries in the battery grip and never need a charge, shooting like 1200 photos and goes to ~30%, and those are on old batteries where health rating in the camera is in the lowest rate already

 

[Jonathan Thill]

Well, he was using a pre-production model of the R6, which means he had to have received it from Canon. I doubt Canon would have provided him with a pre-production model if they did not feel he was serious or that he was not their intended user or market.

I'm as big of a Canon fanboy as anyone, but let's not be blind here. Canon is acknowledging problems and apparently working to fix them.I have no problem with people saying it won't be an issue for them. It would not be an issue for me. But, let's stop hating on people who have legitimate issues.

Since that video first surfaced, I have and will continue to have the same issue. Why bring an untested and unknown Camera for an important shoot without a backup plan.

The Camera failed him for sure but to blame the Camera for his failed shoot is silly.

 

[Respinder]

Well what a crazy few weeks it's been. And I'm left wondering - what is the lesson learned here? It's all about perception.

And I feel we have seen a repeat of what happened to Nikon two years ago when they launched the Z6 and Z7 cameras. Just like the Canon R5, Nikon had aggresively hyped up these two cameras. But ultimately, it didn't matter how good the sensors were or the photo/video capabilities that these cameras offered - the critics, media and YouTubers all focused entirely on one issue - the fact that these cameras had only a single card slot. To many, the single card slot meant that these cameras were "completely unreliable for professionals" and "dead on arrival" - sound familiar?

Also two years ago, Canon ran a much stealthier campaign for the Canon EOS R - that camera was announced a few weeks after the Z6/Z7, and while it too had similar limitations (such as the single card slot), and while the camera was arguably worse in many ways when compared to the Z cameras, the EOS R was perceived by the media as being the better product, despite the fact that it had many flaws. Of course, it helped that the EOS R didn't have the same hype level as the Z6/Z7, so the bar was much lower. Also it helped that Canon sent all reviewers of the camera to Hawaii - of course

Now, fast forward two years, and I feel that the Canon R5 has stepped into the same shoes as the Nikon Z6/Z7, with a crazy level of hype. Problem is when you hype up a product so much, you raise that bar so high, and then it becomes unachievable for reality to live up to the hype. In this case, there is the overheating issue, which is similar to the single card slot problem of the Z6/Z7.

When I first heard of this issue, first reported by EOSHD, I felt that it was ridiculous and clickbait reporting. As many have noted on this thread, there are many ways to record with this camera around these limitations, including using different modes and different video settings. For me, as a hobbyist photographer/videographer, I shoot mostly in 24p, so I shouldn't be affected a whole lot here. The 8K specs line up with what I would have expected - I think 20min of 8K footage is incredible to achieve, especially when most memory cards will not accept anything more than that, and it will be challenging at best to store and process all that footage with current equipment.

But the media decided to run with the overheating limitations - EOSHD first reported on them based upon the information that Canon UK supplied to CVP - for the record, someone should be fired for that disclosure. At the end of the day, since this disclosure, Canon has not been able to stay in front of the story, while the media (including YouTubers) continue to translate the story from clickbait to a real problem - that is perception. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter that the R5 is a best-in-class hybrid photo and video product, with amazing resolution, speed and video capabilities - all that matters is that it overheats! And BTW -- from the comments on here, that perception has even affected the purchasing decisions for photographers as well, who worry about overheating while taking photos (which is not true and hasn't been confirmed, but perception is everything!)

All the while, Sony has now occupied the same position that Canon occupied two years ago, and they've done a fabulous job. Despite the obvious limitations of the a7siii as a true hybrid camera (at 12MP it is really just a video camera), it is perceived as the best camera you can buy right now. Sony ran an excellent stealth campaign with little hype. Even though the camera is revolutionary even from a video standpoint, the bar was low enough that Sony could do no wrong, very similar to how Canon came out with the EOS R two years ago! But Sony did better than that - look how many influencers got copies of the Sony camera versus folks who got pre-production copies of the R5? And all those reviews are direct comparisons against the Canon, and the R5 is getting beat in every video. No matter what you say about it, its positive news for Sony, and negative for Canon. Again, it doesn't matter that these two cameras should absolutely not be compared.

And sadly, the message of the R5 being a photographers dream camera has also gotten lost as well. Every influencer reviewing the camera focuses on the video, and more specifically, the overheating - in other words, the negatives. I've only seen 2-3 videos talking about the great autofocus and high resolution, but the vast majority of videos focuses on the overheating and negatives. Not a good look.

Whether or not the overheating is a real issue or not, it has been accepted now by the media, influencers, and by the average consumer as a real issue. Perception is everything. My recommendation to Canon - they should think about the recall very seriously. The recent statement from Canon Australia is also unfortunate - they really double down with their statement "Canon has been transparent about recording limits for the EOS R5 and is confident that the camera performs to stated specifications." - that "confidence" may be perceived as arrogance in the eyes of many, and Canon isn't learning here. Again, do I think the overheating is an issue? No I don't. But I want Canon to succeed, and I just don't see it happening based upon the perception.

One also has to admire the approach that Sony has taken over the past few years - building an army of goodwill, or a cult of Sony (like a Cult of Apple in a way), that really expresses loyalty to the brand, which has also resulted in continued customers transitioning from Nikon and Canon over to Sony. Going back to Nikon - I feel their cameras have been great too. But it hasn't stopped folks from leaving Nikon and going to Sony, and its been happening for many years now. I fear that you will see many more people leave Canon and transition to Sony as well following this release and current predicament with the R5.

What was the goal of this camera? I would think that it was to get folks to either (a) stay in the Canon system, or (b) transition from Nikon/Sony over to Canon? I feel that if the goal was (b), then Canon is failing based upon the current negative perception. They need to respond quickly, and it cannot be like the way it came out from Canon Australia - arrogant and dismissive of the complaints. Canon needs to step up here. They've done recalls before (Remember the light loss issue with the Canon 5D Mark III?). They've also done things where they add features (like Canon Log to 5D Mark IV) which required folks to send their cameras back into Canon HQ. They need to respond similarly now. It does NOT matter anymore whether the overheating is a real problem or not - its been perceived as such, and the mob has spoken. Whether its a software or hardware fix - I'm not sure - but they really need a better statement to come out with rather than the one that came from Canon Australia.

I really want this camera to succeed - I feel that it is the true successor to the Canon 5D Mark II - a real hybrid photo/video product. But unfortunately, it was released with too much hype, and couldn't deliver to the bar that was set way too high. Canon needs to respond now and get things back under control.

Last thing I would say - CTO Larsson put up a great followup video (

) explaining why he is "divorcing" Canon for Sony. In his case, he doesn't just refer to the Sony as the best video camera, but makes a good case as to why Canon is just underperforming in general as a company, and perhaps the broader long-term case about how making the best photography product may not be enough. In this world of mobile phones and ultimately cheaper solutions that can take photos, video is quickly becoming the new artform that demands higher quality and higher specced products. I don't believe that making the R5 the best photography product is the best endgame for Canon right now. As other influencers have mentioned in their videos, Sony has competitive products that also offer great photographic capabilities. The real point of the R5 was to create that all-in-one hybrid that everyone has been lusting for since the 5D Mark II - if Canon wants to pursue this approach, then they need to come back with some serious solutions for these perceived overheating issues which have become real issues to many. I really hope they make the right decision!

 

[Jonathan Thill]

I shot 530 still for a timelaspe and still had 15mins of 8k available, unlimited cropped 5.1k oversampled 4k as well as "standard" 4k(which is far from standard coming from the R's 1.7crop in 4k) my 15-35 is once again a 15-35 in 10bit clog 4k.

Only shot 45sec of 8k just to mess around with editing and after loading into Premier I decided quickly to transcode to 4k ProRes.

Quick thoughts on the Camera:
Love the shutter sound,
miss the dpad from the R and RP(I will deal),
my off brand batteries work but do not unlock +H shutter.
64gig SD card is candy to this monster.
Animal AF is cheating.

 

[Max TT]

Ran outside and got what I could from my hellspawn before light was out and he ran.

Love the doggy

 

[quilatoo]

Well what a crazy few weeks it's been. And I'm left wondering - what is the lesson learned here? It's all about perception.

Hang on, the R was not well received at all! I remember the general consensus being "is that it" and "Canon have released the best mirrorless camera of 2014" with general concerns of its lack of IBIS and dual card slots.

The positives were way more focused on the new mount and quality of RF lenses.

Consumers should always be concerned about the overall quality of a product they're buying even if the overheating is ultimately unlikely to affect photographers. If I have to pay a premium for features I'm not going to use it's going to be more annoying if those features aren't realistically useable for those who do want them.

 

[BakaBokeh]

Well what a crazy few weeks it's been. And I'm left wondering - what is the lesson learned here? It's all about perception.

And I feel we have seen a repeat of what happened to Nikon two years ago when they launched the Z6 and Z7 cameras. Just like the Canon R5, Nikon had aggresively hyped up these two cameras. But ultimately, it didn't matter how good the sensors were or the photo/video capabilities that these cameras offered - the critics, media and YouTubers all focused entirely on one issue - the fact that these cameras had only a single card slot. To many, the single card slot meant that these cameras were "completely unreliable for professionals" and "dead on arrival" - sound familiar?

Also two years ago, Canon ran a much stealthier campaign for the Canon EOS R - that camera was announced a few weeks after the Z6/Z7, and while it too had similar limitations (such as the single card slot), and while the camera was arguably worse in many ways when compared to the Z cameras, the EOS R was perceived by the media as being the better product, despite the fact that it had many flaws. Of course, it helped that the EOS R didn't have the same hype level as the Z6/Z7, so the bar was much lower. Also it helped that Canon sent all reviewers of the camera to Hawaii - of course

Now, fast forward two years, and I feel that the Canon R5 has stepped into the same shoes as the Nikon Z6/Z7, with a crazy level of hype. Problem is when you hype up a product so much, you raise that bar so high, and then it becomes unachievable for reality to live up to the hype. In this case, there is the overheating issue, which is similar to the single card slot problem of the Z6/Z7.

My memory of the EOS R's reception was different. It did not receive the illustrious welcome that you painted and things like 4K crop and single card slot were heavily criticized much the way overheating is being criticized about the R5/R6. There were many praises sang about the RF glass... not so much about the body.

I suspect the R5/R6 will follow a similar reception. Once it gets in people's hands, the positives will outweigh the negatives, and although not perfect will probably be deemed a really great camera. Just wait until it gets into really creative peoples hands, and the focus will shift on what can be made... not on what it lacks. The biggest difference is Canon has put these halo specs which may or may not be reliable depending on how you use the camera. In times past, they did not give you the option, opting instead to not put anything in that would cause the camera to overheat. This time Canon said, here you go... 8K, oversampled 4K, 4K120... YMMV.

 

[Pixel]

Pg 896-897 of user guide has a table of EF lenses that are supported for 12 FPS mechanical.

Thanks for pointing that out. If this isn’t the death knell for phasing out EF lenses, I don’t know what is.
That 400 2.8 IS vII...sorry 70-200 2.8 vII...out of luck...A lot of people with EF lenses are going to be like WTF?

 

[nikkito]

I miss the good old times, when a photo camera was made to take photos....

 

[Otara]

Thanks for pointing that out. If this isn’t the death knell for phasing out EF lenses, I don’t know what is.
That 400 2.8 IS vII...sorry 70-200 2.8 vII...out of luck...A lot of people with EF lenses are going to be like WTF?

Ive been using it and so far found it to be excellent with EF lenses, hardly use mechanical, mostly using electronic first curtain. As a transition it could hardly be better in my view.

 

[zim]

The thing that bugs me is the screen on top stays partially on after you turn the body off. Apparently you can’t turn it off and it’s a thing with the R too, unless you pull out the battery.

I read elsewhere that it's like the Kindle paper white display so shouldn't be using battery when switched off?

 

[Viggo]

Ive been using it and so far found it to be excellent with EF lenses, hardly use mechanical, mostly using electronic first curtain. As a transition it could hardly be better in my view.

Do no use EFCS, it ruins your bokeh and can give you gradient exposures, it’s the devil