What’s next from Canon in 2020?

digigal

Traveling the world one step at a time.
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Aug 26, 2014
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I am NOT going to put up with the cost and hassle of having 300-600 45meg files uploading to the cloud during a shoot (2/3rd of which I dont even want to keep. Not even an option out in nowhere land shoots.
These guys are just nuts when they talk stuff like this when most of my shooting is in the Arctic, Antarctic, Africa, Mongolia, etc ie anywhere there is no internet or phone access!
 

AEWest

EOS RP
Jan 30, 2020
375
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Nikon D780 too.

To be fair though, not a lot of full frame bodies have come around to their typical renewal cycle recently either, so we shouldn't expect release of those bodies until they're well past their expected date. Many full frame bodies are released on a largely predictable schedule with some exceptions. Let's look at some of the renewal cycles to see which bodies should have appeared by now and haven't:

1DX - ~4 year cycles - last version in 2016, newest version announced for 2020 on target
5D - 3-4 year cycles since 5D - last version in 2016, should be due this year; typically released near September
6D - ~4.5 year cycles - last one released in 2017, so we could expect one in 2021
5DS - there's only been one release in 2015, so who knows what a typical release cycle is, though there is no suggestion a new version is coming.
D6 - 4 year cycles - last one was 2016, newest version announced for 2020 on target
D850 - 2-3 year cycles - last version in 2017, newest version should be in 2020
D750 - 6 year cycles - last version in 2014, newest version announced for 2020 on target
D600 - Unsure of cycle, but Nikon openly cancelled this line so I don't see a new one coming
K1 - honestly, who knows if Pentax will even release another full frame camera at this rate, though they did openly say they thought people would come back to mirrored shooting recently, so I don't see them moving to mirrorless.
a99 - 4 year cycles - last version was 2016, newest version would be due late 2020, though I'll bet it will never be renewed considering the success of their mirrorless line.

I'm blanking on other full frame cameras which have traditionally had an OVF which have not been released, so I would argue that while there is a lot of movement toward mirrorless, we haven't seen a lot of OVF-driven lines miss their scheduled renewals in favour of a mirrorless alternative just yet.
According to Mr. Nikon's (Thom Hogan) site, his dealer contacts indicate the D780 hit their shelves with a thud. No lineups or shortages. Are Nikon users buying Z models instead? Or just holding onto existing DSLRs? Time will tell.
 
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Sdiver2489

EOS M50
Apr 17, 2013
28
5
Some of you are comparing a 61MP sensor to a 30MP sensor and coming out with parity if the dynamic range is the same on a pixel basis? You are missing one big factor if you do. When equalized to the same resolution the 5Div sensor doesn't match the dynamic range of the Sony A7Riv until ISO3200.

I'm confident Canon will do significantly better with the R5. I don't know if they will best the a7Riii/iv sensors which are amazing...but they'll come close enough for most.

What Canon lacks right now is third party support. Sony's open mount specification has let users start taking advantage of cheap third party glass. Canon has some amazing RF lenses and some real snoozers(IMO) in the F7.1 zooms and half step backs (35mm comes to mind).

If Canon can really optimize the IBIS to best the competition (which early reports indicate they have) and the sensor is in the ballpark performance-wise. All they need to do is be competitive in terms of focusing and they'll have a great A7Riii/iv competitor. I don't know if it will best the performance of the A9ii in terms of readout speed but that will have to remain to be seen.

I'll give the system some more time to flesh itself out but hopefully this is the start of something good from Canon!
 
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Joules

doom
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Jul 16, 2017
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I think we had enough discussion on DR in the other over-1000-pages-long threads to hear every side of the argument and all relevant technical aspects. Can't we just agree that there are differences in what people value (e.G. normalized vs per pixel DR, base ISO vs high ISO or both) and how much of a difference is required for them to feel that it matters?

I'm the last guy to complain about the technical discussion, but I think it was recently enough for all the back and forth on the subject to be fresh in our minds or else wise easy to read up again.
 

canonnews

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However, as above, most of my landscape shots are ISO 100 or 50. Nightscapes can be in the range of ISO 100-3200. Sometimes I use higher ISOs during the daytime to shoot foliage in the wind etc. Of course it's my specific workflow but ISO 100 (or whatever base ISO) is a default go-to ISO for many landscape shooters and sensor's performance at ISO 100 is improtant for landscapes.

ISO 100 is important, but the immediate demand that it requires max DR for landscapes is overblown IMO. those days are long gone. it's for basically one style of landscape photography which requires extensive shadow lifting and you can't bracket exposures. there are tons of landscape styles that don't require the image to look the way that style does.

Bracketing will always yield better results than an ISO invariant shadow push if it's possible to do bracketting. But this is entirely off topic and a derailing ;)

dpreview made ISO invariance the holy grail of sensors until of course, canon caught up.
 

canonnews

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And?.. How does it change the fact the 1DXIII lags behind the A7RIV?

The 1DX Mark III is designed to push out 1-2Gigapixels per second for processing. when you design for speed you suffer with DR.
So you can't compare the two cameras directly a better judge would be the D6 and A9II. which are the best fast sensors used by the competition.

The 1DX Mark III only trails the A7R IV by .4EV. No one's going to ever notice a .4 EV difference in the real world.

If a 5D or R5 receives a similar bump up that the 1DX Mark II and 5DIV shared then we should see the R5 pretty close to the A7R IV.
 
Feb 15, 2020
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The 1DX Mark III is designed to push out 1-2Gigapixels per second for processing. when you design for speed you suffer with DR.
So you can't compare the two cameras directly a better judge would be the D6 and A9II. which are the best fast sensors used by the competition.

The 1DX Mark III only trails the A7R IV by .4EV. No one's going to ever notice a .4 EV difference in the real world.

If a 5D or R5 receives a similar bump up that the 1DX Mark II and 5DIV shared then we should see the R5 pretty close to the A7R IV.

If that's the case I would prefer the R5 to be a little slower to preserve the DR. If it can do 20fps at 45mp that's even faster readout than 1dx iii
 

padam

EOS R
Aug 26, 2015
1,254
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If that's the case I would prefer the R5 to be a little slower to preserve the DR. If it can do 20fps at 45mp that's even faster readout than 1dx iii
They probably have a faster readout speed per pixel, but not quite as fast for the whole sensor area.
The 1DX III can record 5.5k RAW at 60fps as well, which is much faster than 20fps, it just needs to disable the AF to work with that.
I also think the 45MP estimation is a bit too much, in that case 20fps might be in some sort of a crop mode.
Of course if 4k 120fps recording is correct (I guess in a 2x crop mode), then it is certainly a fast readout sensor.
 
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Quackator

EOS RP
Jul 19, 2011
381
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I also think the 45MP estimation is a bit too much, (...)

40 or 45MP are prerequisite for 8k, depending on wether it is UHD 8k or DCI 8k.
There's no way around it.

Of course if 4k 120fps recording is correct (I guess in a 2x crop mode), then it is certainly a fast readout sensor.

20fps translate to 50ms for the full cycle of a shot.
Sensor readout will be shorter than the full cycle.

The Nikon Z7 takes these 50ms for sensor readout time.

So yes, it is fast.
 

koenkooi

EOS 5D Mark IV
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Feb 25, 2015
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They probably have a faster readout speed per pixel, but not quite as fast for the whole sensor area.
The 1DX III can record 5.5k RAW at 60fps as well, which is much faster than 20fps, it just needs to disable the AF to work with that.
I also think the 45MP estimation is a bit too much, in that case 20fps might be in some sort of a crop mode.
Of course if 4k 120fps recording is correct (I guess in a 2x crop mode), then it is certainly a fast readout sensor.

The 1DxIII drops down to 12-bit capture when using the electronic shutter, RAW video is also 12-bit. I expect the R5 to do the same, so the bandwidth needed for readout in e-shutter and movie mode is less than the bandwidth needed for mechanical stills mode.
 

Quarkcharmed

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ISO 100 is important, but the immediate demand that it requires max DR for landscapes is overblown IMO. those days are long gone. it's for basically one style of landscape photography which requires extensive shadow lifting and you can't bracket exposures. there are tons of landscape styles that don't require the image to look the way that style does.
Basically you need high DR when there's high contrast in the scene, which happens all the time. It doesn't depend on style, unless the style is shooting in fog or in shadows. Postprocessing style comes after that, and generally the cleaner the image is (less noise), the more room for postprocessing you have for whatever style.
With the exposure bracketing, I prefer to avoid it when possible. Extensive shadow lifting as a global adjustment in Lightroom isn't that extensive. For 5DIV, shadows +100 is just about +2 stops. I rarely go above +50.

The 1DX Mark III is designed to push out 1-2Gigapixels per second for processing. when you design for speed you suffer with DR.

Doesn't it come at a cost of reduced bit depth, e.g. 14 -> 12 bits, but that doesn't apply to landscape setting. If there are other sacrifices in the sensor apart from 12 bit, they're going to be the same for R5 as well because it also requires high throughput and 8K.

If a 5D or R5 receives a similar bump up that the 1DX Mark II and 5DIV shared then we should see the R5 pretty close to the A7R IV.

That's what I'm hoping for. Even +0.5ev to 5DIV would be great.
 

koenkooi

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Doesn't it come at a cost of reduced bit depth, e.g. 14 -> 12 bits, but that doesn't apply to landscape setting. If there are other sacrifices in the sensor apart from 12 bit, they're going to be the same for R5 as well because it also requires high throughput and 8K.
[..]

According to the manual it only drops down to 12-bit when using the electronic shutter, mechanical is using the full bit depth. I'm guessing it drops down to 12-bit to speed up the readout speed and get the rolling shutter artefacts down that way.