What do/don't you like about the 5Ds?

V8Beast

EOS R
Jun 2, 2011
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www.stephenkimphoto.com
Two points to make up front:

1) I love my 5D3 despite it's "limited" DR :)
2) I'm fully aware that the 5Ds doesn't replace the 5D3, but merely complements the 5D line. Thanks goodness :)


So here's my list of 5Ds likes and dislikes:

Like:

- Canon users awaiting a high-megapixel body finally have a high-megapixel option.


Dislikes:

- No increase in FPS in crop mode
- Mediocre low-light performance
- No improvements in DR


Honestly, I was a million times more excited when the 5D3 was announced, as it addressed what were (IMHO) the most glaring deficiencies of the 5D2 (AF system and speed). I'm not a landscape shooter, but if I was I would have very mixed feelings about this body.

Why go through the trouble of designing a specialty/niche body that doesn't address one of the top priorities of photographers in that niche (DR, clean shadows)? Why market a product whose only advantage over the competition is resolution, while lagging behind in ISO and FPS? IMHO, 12 stops of DR is plenty for a general purpose camera like the 5D3, but a purpose-built landscape/studio body should at least attempt to bridge the gap between it and the competition.

I'm glad I'm not a landscape shooter, as the 5D3 will continue serving my needs just fine :)
 

V8Beast

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Jun 2, 2011
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Mogwai2 said:
V8Beast said:
- Mediocre low-light performance

So you did test it... wow.

Well, you have to read between the lines at this point. The limited max ISO of 6400 should be one clue. In the 5Ds preview articles that are out there, Canon reps claim the ISO performance is equal to the 5D2, but they won't go as far as saying it's as good as the 5D3.
 

Mogwai2

I'm New Here
Feb 6, 2015
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DR like 5D MK3, noise like 5D MK2 ( a bit better in fact) that´s what Chuck said.. and Chuck knows best.

Beside that tech talk, i never had DR problems with my cameras.
But then i learned with Film and how to make the best out of the medium i have.

And it´s more fun than a sitting in front of a PC and complainng on forums all day. ;)
 

V8Beast

EOS R
Jun 2, 2011
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Mogwai2 said:
Can you explain why famous Photographers (Photogs i actually KNOW from their work) are very happy with the new 5D´s?

You have special needs?

You mean the ones that were paid by Canon to put together PR videos while reading off cue cards ;D? Seriously though, I'm sure some photogs, famous and unfamous, will be very happy with the 5Ds. However, Canon had the opportunity to address the biggest deficiencies of their sensors compared to the competition, and didn't. This isn't a huge deal for my type of shooting, but it's a huge deal for landscape shooters who were already disgruntled in the first place.
 

3kramd5

EOS R6
Mar 2, 2012
3,084
405
V8Beast said:
Why market a product whose only advantage over the competition is resolution, while lagging behind in ISO and FPS?

Perhaps because it's intended mainly for studio and landscape shooting, where sky-high ISO and FPS aren't the highest priorities?

That said, the low ISO ceiling (relatively speaking) is curious in a camera with a fairly sophisticated AF system, which feels purpose built for action.
 

Mogwai2

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Feb 6, 2015
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But let me tell you what i really wonder about.

There was a time when most Photographer wrote "get rid of video, give me a pure photography camera"... or "i don´t need video".

Now it looks like the exact same persons complain about not having 4K in the new 5D´s.
Even when they don´t even have the hardware to edit or display 4K footage.

I mean i do 4K and downsampel it to FULL HD .... but i don´t care about 4K in the 5Ds.
It´s not meant as a Video camera. I get that, why others don´t?

What has changed that suddenly everyone seem to want 4K?
 

Mogwai2

I'm New Here
Feb 6, 2015
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0
V8Beast said:
Mogwai2 said:
Can you explain why famous Photographers (Photogs i actually KNOW from their work) are very happy with the new 5D´s?

You have special needs?

You mean the ones that were paid by Canon to put together PR videos while reading off cue cards ;D? Seriously though, I'm sure some photogs, famous and unfamous, will be very happy with the 5Ds. However, Canon had the opportunity to address the biggest deficiencies of their sensors compared to the competition, and didn't. This isn't a huge deal for my type of shooting, but it's a huge deal for landscape shooters who were already disgruntled in the first place.

I doubt someone like David Noton... will use the 5Ds R when he is not fully commited to it. :)

I guess outside Forums and the Internet the DR issue is none.
 

PureClassA

Canon since age 5. The A1
CR Pro
Aug 15, 2014
2,123
825
Mandeville, LA
Shields-Photography.com
I do a lot of portrait work AND a lot of fast action. Dancers. This camera covers one of my two primary needs. In a studio environment, DR isn't so much an issue as you have total control of the light. I've also shot plenty portraiture outdoors in natural lighting. I've never had any issues with DR there either that I've found compromising. I'd rather fix such issues with strobes anyway than try to lift in post.

I understand that's not ideal for everyone. But that's what makes this such a specialty camera. the 5FPS is no bother either. I much prefer having the damped mirror to reduce vibration and ergo, blur.

I love the idea of shooting a full body shot of a posed dancer and being able to totally play with the framing in post, even cropping down to a headshot if need be. It affords me so much more flexibility. I've also made some very large prints (24x36) from work on the 6D. Canvas too. These dance mom's love buying them. So 50MP will make them even better.

For the action shots we have a 1DX for that. I'm waiting for the 1DX2 as well.

Do I want a Sony? Yes. I want the a7s because I'm interested in playing more with video and there is nothing else like it anywhere.

My 6D does a great job and it will continue to be my all purpose. I may also grab a 5D3 when they drop under 2k
 

Mogwai2

I'm New Here
Feb 6, 2015
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I have yet to see a scene (shot with a D800 and 5D MK3) where it is obvious that the 5D MK3 is worse.

All i see are ridiculous examples where people push the shadows 3-4 stops.
And the endresult of this pushing is, in most cases, something i would not show to the public anyway.

So can anyone point me to real life examples?
 

RLPhoto

Gear doesn't matter, Just a Matter of Convenience.
Mar 27, 2012
3,778
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San Antonio, TX
www.Ramonlperez.com
This would be a camera that should rarely be seen above ISO 800. Controlled lighting means you can control DR in a studio to what the limits are for any camera. This camera should be paired with an equal amount of strobist gear to make the most of those 50mp.

Many of us are waiting for 5D4 to see the big body improvements and the 5D-s is a repackaged 5D3 with some tweaks.
 
Pluses:
-50MP - duh!
-5DIII body, battery - no need to buy new accessories including costly L-plates
-5D III AF + 150k metering sensor with face detect (which works rather well in 1D X)
-Auto ISO with EC in M mode from 1D X
-VF information & improved level from 7DII
-Built-in intervalometer from 7DII
-Ambience & White Priority in Auto WB from 7DII
-UHS-I SD card support
-New delayed shutter release - no more waiting 2s for every shot or having to use a remote release
-5FPS plus decent RAW buffer, despite huge files
-Flicker mode from 7DII
-Softer mirror slap

Minuses:
-Not cheap
-No DR improvement (not a deal breaker, but would have been nice)
-Considerably lower diffraction limit (biggest con for me)
-Decision between 5Ds and 5DsR
-HUGE files - will need bigger cards, and processing will be painful on all but the most powerful PCs
-Will require tripod or 1/2x focal length or higher shutter speeds for best results
-Requires Canon's best lenses to get the most out of the sensor (same is true for most current bodies)
-No built in GPS (would have been nice)
 

V8Beast

EOS R
Jun 2, 2011
1,128
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www.stephenkimphoto.com
Mogwai2 said:
DR like 5D MK3, noise like 5D MK2 ( a bit better in fact) that´s what Chuck said.. and Chuck knows best.

That's great, but the 5D3's DR is no better or slightly worse than the 5D2, which is now six-year-old technology. Based on what Chuck said, the 5Ds' noise is slightly worse than the three-year-old 5D3, which was less than one stop better than the 5D2. Not much progress by Canon on that front, either.

And it´s more fun than a sitting in front of a PC and complainng on forums all day. ;)

You must have missed the part where I stated that I'm more than happy with the performance of Canon sensors for most of my shooting needs. However, for landscape photogs for whom the 5Ds is targeted at, Canon hasn't done much to address their needs.
 

RLPhoto

Gear doesn't matter, Just a Matter of Convenience.
Mar 27, 2012
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mackguyver said:
RLPhoto said:
Many of us are waiting for 5D4 to see the big body improvements and the 5D-s is a repackaged 5D3 with some tweaks.
What body improvements are you hoping for? While not quite up to the build of the 1D X, I think the 5DIII is a great body and a huge improvement over the 5DII.

-All Crosstype AF
-Link AF point Spot Metering
-Dual DOF buttons like 1DX.
-7DII Lever
-Blinking AF Point in Low Light.
-Improved Video & DPAF
-Touchscreen to use the DPAF effectively.
-Wifi, GPS, Built in RT...
-A microwave and coffee maker. Must be atleast 1000W.
 

Mogwai2

I'm New Here
Feb 6, 2015
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V8Beast said:
Mogwai2 said:
DR like 5D MK3, noise like 5D MK2 ( a bit better in fact) that´s what Chuck said.. and Chuck knows best.

That's great, but the 5D3's DR is no better or slightly worse than the 5D2, which is now six-year-old technology. Based on what Chuck said, the 5Ds' noise is slightly worse than the three-year-old 5D3, which was less than one stop better than the 5D2. Not much progress by Canon on that front, either.

You forget that the new 5Ds have 50 MP.. not 21 or 22MP.

Downsample and you will be suprised.. but there is no free lunch.

Of course the per pixel noise will go up when you make the Photosites smaller.
Given the same sensor technology this is an unchangable fact.

The praised D800 sensor is no exception to that rule.

So when the noise stays the same at 50MP compared to 22MP.. im pretty happy with that.

PS: Mike Burnhill told the noise floor is much lower than that of the 5D MK3 so you could pull more details from the shadows.
 
RLPhoto said:
mackguyver said:
RLPhoto said:
Many of us are waiting for 5D4 to see the big body improvements and the 5D-s is a repackaged 5D3 with some tweaks.
What body improvements are you hoping for? While not quite up to the build of the 1D X, I think the 5DIII is a great body and a huge improvement over the 5DII.

-All Crosstype AF
-Link AF point Spot Metering
-Dual DOF buttons like 1DX.
-7DII Lever
-Blinking AF Point in Low Light.
-Improved Video & DPAF
-Touchscreen to use the DPAF effectively.
-Wifi, GPS, Built in RT...
-A microwave and coffee maker. Must be atleast 1000W.
Got it - and I'm sure they'll keep the 1D features as 1D features, but the other stuff might be nice. The microwave would be helpful for cold mornings ;)
 

RLPhoto

Gear doesn't matter, Just a Matter of Convenience.
Mar 27, 2012
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San Antonio, TX
www.Ramonlperez.com
mackguyver said:
RLPhoto said:
mackguyver said:
RLPhoto said:
Many of us are waiting for 5D4 to see the big body improvements and the 5D-s is a repackaged 5D3 with some tweaks.
What body improvements are you hoping for? While not quite up to the build of the 1D X, I think the 5DIII is a great body and a huge improvement over the 5DII.

-All Crosstype AF
-Link AF point Spot Metering
-Dual DOF buttons like 1DX.
-7DII Lever
-Blinking AF Point in Low Light.
-Improved Video & DPAF
-Touchscreen to use the DPAF effectively.
-Wifi, GPS, Built in RT...
-A microwave and coffee maker. Must be atleast 1000W.
Got it - and I'm sure they'll keep the 1D features as 1D features, but the other stuff might be nice. The microwave would be helpful for cold mornings ;)
Your probably right but with the release of 2 5D-s versions, Lets hope canon starts to trickle down more features.
 

V8Beast

EOS R
Jun 2, 2011
1,128
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www.stephenkimphoto.com
Mogwai2 said:
You forget that the new 5Ds have 50 MP.. not 21 or 22MP.

Downsample and you will be suprised.. but there is no free lunch.

Of course the per pixel noise will go up when you make the Photosites smaller.

The praised D800 sensor is no exception to that rule.

Good point, but Nikon tripled the resolution of the D800 compared to the D700, and reduced noise at the same time. Results like that makes everyone greedy ;D

Now that Canon has showed its hand, updating the camera bag with a 1DX and a 645Z would be the ultimate combo. Just gotta win the lottery first :) Of course, the new bodies would only improve my images 1-5 percent at most, so I'll stick with my 5D3 ;D
 

Mogwai2

I'm New Here
Feb 6, 2015
14
0
V8Beast said:
Mogwai2 said:
You forget that the new 5Ds have 50 MP.. not 21 or 22MP.

Downsample and you will be suprised.. but there is no free lunch.

Of course the per pixel noise will go up when you make the Photosites smaller.

The praised D800 sensor is no exception to that rule.

Good point, but Nikon tripled the resolution of the D800 compared to the D700, and reduced noise at the same time. Results like that makes everyone greedy ;D

Yes Sony did a good job on that sensor nobody is denying that. :)
Thought i read that some are not happy with the colors from the Sony sensors.

But you are looking at LOW ISO... when i argue with HIGH ISO the picture looks a bit different. :)

Im very curious to see the next generation of Sony 46MP sensors.
Only then i am willing to make a final judgement how good or bad the Canon sensors are. ;)

When i look at the whole CAMERAS... i prefer Canon every day.