What Do You Want to See in the EOS M System?

Canon Rumors Guy

Canon EOS 40D
CR Pro
Jul 20, 2010
10,779
3,158
Canada
www.canonrumors.com
HTML:
The EOS M system was launched in June 2012 to not much fanfare. It was <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO7rxitFLZg" target="_blank">immediately mocked</a> for perhaps the slowest autofocus in the history of digital cameras. The lack of lenses has also been an issue for the system getting any sort of mainstream acceptance. While Canon has improved the camera from the first iteration up to the current EOS M3, it’s still not a very compelling mirrorless system for a lot of consumers.</p>
<p>I do own the EOS M3 and all of the EF-M lenses, but it’s likely always going to be my last choice walking out the door.</p>
<p>What we want to see in an EOS M camera:</p>
<ul>
<li>A larger camera with better ergonomics</li>
<li>Minimize the number of buttons, some of us have big hands</li>
<li>A built-in EVF, the tech is out there for a good one.</li>
<li>A full frame option in the mirrorless lineup</li>
<li>Find some way to make EF lenses work like they do on a DSLR, this is the hard one.</li>
<li>More native lenses</li>
</ul>
<p>Some people love the EOS M3, and that's cool. If you're happy, I'm happy you're happy. Maybe I'd just like to see the EOS M lineup expanded, more so than flat out replacements of the EOS M3 & EOS M10.</p>
<p>What do you want to see in the EOS M lineup? Do you like the compact size of the current cameras or would you prefer something the size of the Fuji, Sony and Leica offerings?</p>
<p>Sound off in the forum</p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>
 

sjprg

1DSIII, 5DSR
Jul 18, 2013
39
0
San Jose, California
I have an original M1 that other than the unusable screen in bright daylight takes excellent images. I use it for tough hikes where the weight and possibility of damage to my DSLRs is a big possibility. The loss of the M1 would be trivial compared to one of the DSLRs. The EF adapter is SLOW granted but that could be fixed. (look how Sony fixed the A7RII to run the Metabones adapter). With a popup EF, that's all I need. The camera I really miss is my old Minolta 7I for hiking. It was LIGHT, An M series built exstreamly light such as the Minolta 7I with the image capability of the M4 would be a hikers delight.
 
Upvote 0
Canon Rumors said:
[...]

<p>What we want to see in an EOS M camera:</p>

1 A larger camera with better ergonomics
2 Minimize the number of buttons, some of us have big hands
3 A built-in EVF, the tech is out there for a good one.
4 A full frame option in the mirrorless lineup
5 Find some way to make EF lenses work like they do on a DSLR, this is the hard one.
6 More native lenses

[...]

1: not too much larger but some millimeters are acceptable if it helps. Idea: make a large grip to store the larger battery - it wouldn't compromise overall size because the fittet lens is always limiting in this direction.
2: NEVER reduce it too much. I would like to have a "*" button, at least 3 direct control rings - one around the mount would be great. Omit the fiddly multi controller of the EOS M classic.
3: MORE IMPORTANT to me than a built in flash. An EVF with a 90 degree up-tilt would be great.
4: PLEASE - ad 1: a moderate size increasement is more acceptable with FF. But PLEASE use a smaller flange distance, I would like to use my FD lenses on that camera.
5: A FF mirrorless is (for me) not meant as an action camera but more a photographic tool which is compact, lightweight and gives good control over image parameters
6: A set of 6 lenses would be sufficient:
2 zooms: Ultrawide + Wide to moderate telephoto
4 primes: Ultrawide compact, wide with high aperture, moderate tele lens with high aperture, 1 macro
all with IS, the high aperture primes with USM, the rest with STM

The old EOS M classic is a phantastic camera when it comes to IQ in combination with size and weight. I really like to use it with 10-22 EF-S and 22 EF-M or the FD 1.4 50 S.S.C. alongside the SLRs (equipped with tele lenses).
 
Upvote 0
I've fallen so in love with FF that I just don't think I'm going to buy an M line camera (again) any time soon. I just don't find the size of my 6D and lenses to be bothersome. That said...
Canon would have to make a FF M with AF equally fast to PDAF, and allow for tracking, produce some L-series quality lenses in the focal lengths I use, in-camera EVF with practically no lag along with face and eye detection, and a pop-up flash.
There's a lot more I'd want, but that's the basic requirement for me to even consider the possibility.
I'd also like a larger, heavier model. I rely on the weight of my camera and lenses to keep my hands steady.
 
Upvote 0

LDS

Sep 14, 2012
1,763
293
Canon Rumors said:
What do you want to see in the EOS M lineup?

I would like to see something along the line of the G5X. I would buy a Canon mirroless if it is compact enough to be an alternative when the bulkier 5D is not an option. If the design is compact and ergonomic enough, it's the camera I'm looking for - albeit I'd still wish to see if there will be a 100D successor. I'm looking for a second camera to carry around when I need something light and shooting is not the main aim, so I'm not really interested in a DSLR replacement - but something that works almost like a DSLR in a more compact form. Working well with EF lens is a bonus as a backup body.
 
Upvote 0
Lenses, lenses, lenses !

I'm growing tired with the M line, and the lack of native lenses is hard to excuse at that point. The line has been around for a while now.

I really like the IQ out of my M3, and I really *really* like the EF-M 11-22mm lens, so if nothing else I'm going to keep these two glued together for a while. Other than that, I have absolutely no interest in more M bodies, unless of course a FF line comes out soon ...
 
Upvote 0
Jul 21, 2010
31,099
12,863
Until the functional limitations of mirrorless are overcome (particularly in terms of AF, also battery life and ergonomics), I won't consider a MILC as a dSLR replacement. Therefore, the key desire for me is size/portability. I like the size of the M2.

What I'd like to see are a few more native lenses, particularly a fast(ish) short tele prime.
 
Upvote 0
If I wanted a larger camera, I'd purchase a regular slr. The advantage of the Eos M system is that it is small and light, useful for outdoor activities such as backpacking or long-distance bicycling, where it would be hard to lug along a full-size camera. I dislike the Powershots because of the poor lens options, and absence of serious control of the image. Thus, my list would be
1. Light, light, light. The lighter and smaller, the better
2. gps?
3. Ability to visualize the screen (or image) in bright light without having to lug along a hotshoe adaptor
4. speed!
5. possibility of an adaptor that allows regular batteries. It's hard to charge the Canon batteries when you are deep in the woods.
6. Higher range of brightness/darkness
Just my two cents worth
 
Upvote 0

josephandrews222

Square Sensors + AI = Better Images
Jul 12, 2013
608
1,845
65
Midwest United States
What Many Seem to Want in Canon Mirrorless is a 5D Mark M

I have a lot to say on this topic but not a lot of time. I hope to bring more light than heat to this thread...

It sounds to me like what some well-intentioned folks want is a mirrorless Canon that can replace their 5DMkIII--in every way that a professional photographer can think of.

I believe that this would be a fabulous body. I would want one of those, too.

Perhaps such a camera could be called a '5D Mark M'.

But in my mind the essence of the M-series of mirrorless cameras centers on the APS-C sensor and the benefits of size and weight reduction (including ES-M lenses) that go along with that choice of sensor (as opposed to full-frame).

So the next 'M', in my mind, is a different camera that many traditional Canon DSLR shooters are used to, in that (like the previous Ms) compromises based on size and weight reduction will be made (as opposed to the mirrorless 5DMkIII described above)...because the M is NOT designed to replace a Single Digit D in the Canon line.

Therefore, in my mind, when the M3 is replaced (an M4?), here is my wish list:

1. make it as small as possible
2. make it as light as possible
3. make it as responsive as possible
4. make it auto-focus better
5. do not include a viewfinder but improve the usability of the LCD screen
6. do include an onboard flash
7. use a sensor that works as well as possible in low light

I love using my 5D Mark III. It is a VERY useful tool.

But it is not an 'M'. I love using my M and M2, as well--especially for family vacations and street photography.

Full-frame shooters who thumb their noses at the M series do so at their own peril.

Thanks for reading.
 
Upvote 0
Canon Rumors said:
<p>Sound off in the forum</p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>[/html]

Ha! You all know Canon would never build this. It would compete with it's own DSLR's and might take sales away. Or, if Canon does build something like it, it would be so crippled, again so not to compete with it's own offering's, it would be yet another sales dog like the M series has been.

Having said that, this IS the camera we want and we are willing to pay for. Rough edit - make it Leica Q sized, good auto and manual focusing, good manual controls and handling and able to use exising EF lenses. Done. We all know Canon could create this using mostly off the shelf components, they just have to design a body to house it in, how hard can this be?
 
Upvote 0
Jul 19, 2011
421
283
I have 10D, 1D MkII, 450D, 5D MkII, 5D MkIII, 1D-X, M1 and M3.

Plenty of choice, and plenty of experience.

That said: The size and ergonomics of the 5D MkIII would be the
ideal FF mirrorless for me, with an adaptor that allows to use
EF-lenses with tilt/shift. A sensor with better DR and/or color
rendition and some more ISO. A sensor capable of real RGB might
be the best performer in colored LED event lighting.

But what I'm after more than anything else is a global shutter
that will eliminate x-sync forever. Flash at any shutter speed
you like, imagine!

Ah yeah: The M3 with the 22mm pancake is always on me.
Always.
 
Upvote 0

Bob Howland

CR Pro
Mar 25, 2012
917
588
Canon Rumors said:
<ul>
<li>A larger camera with better ergonomics</li>
<li>Minimize the number of buttons, some of us have big hands</li>
<li>A built-in EVF, the tech is out there for a good one.</li>
<li>A full frame option in the mirrorless lineup</li>
<li>Find some way to make EF lenses work like they do on a DSLR, this is the hard one.</li>
<li>More native lenses</li>
</ul>

1. A larger camera but not a heavier one. The G5X is too small for use with its viewfinder. If I want a heavy camera, I'll use my 5D3 with the battery pack. As for "better ergonomics", that can mean different, even contradictory, things to different people.

2. Fewer buttons? Larger buttons perhaps but not fewer. What would you suggest instead, a touchscreen-oriented, menu driven interface? That's the last thing I want. After using my G7x for 7 weeks and a G10 for 5 years, I've gotten quite used to them.

3. A built-in EVF -- absolutely, just so long as it is at least as good as the one in the G5X.

4. A full-frame mirrorless option. Using what lens mount??? Arguably this subject belongs in its own thread. In fact, there was a fairly long thread on this subject a few months back and I'm sure there have been others.

5. Use EF lenses seamlessly. Absolutely! Otherwise, why buy it instead of a Sony or Fuji? I also want something like a Metabones speed booster, 1-stop is acceptable, but 1-1/3 stop is preferred and I don't care if it costs $1000 if it's a quality optic.

6. More native lenses. Assuming 5. above happens, I only care about a tiny, native 15-85 f/3.5-5.6.
 
Upvote 0
Oct 26, 2013
1,140
426
In my mind, the only real advantage to removing the mirror and making a mirrorless camera is the size and weight reduction. It's somewhat funny to me how many folks want their mirrorless to be more and more like their DSLR. If they are so similar, why get the mirrorless? I think camera makers are smart enough to realize that making the same basic camera in both DSLR and mirrorless format would be redundant (and stupid). The key to selling mirrorless is if it offers something that you can't get in a DSLR. At the moment, this means make it small and light.
 
Upvote 0
I want Canon to stop wasting time on the stupid EOS M system and simply release a mirrorless 5D with everything an A7R2 has to offer, plus more. 4K video, high megapixel count and lowlight capability won't come in small sensor compact size cameras. All who don't need good video, a lot of megapixels or lowlight can simply use their phones. Maybe Canon should think about manufacturing phones?
 
Upvote 0
Jul 21, 2010
31,099
12,863
Quackator said:
One thing: Canon wants to sell cameras.
As long as they sell more cameras than anybody else at a good profit,
they couldn't care less if their customers buy DSLR or mirrorless.

Selling cameras for profit is their business model,
not making sure that all these cameras are DSLRs.

True.

But...significant development spend in a segment that represents a minor fraction of the overall market is likely not profitable when you already dominate the major fraction of the market. Canon and Nikon seem quite happy to let Sony/Fuji/etc. fight over the market scraps until such time as MILC growth makes that a financially attractive segment of the market (and currently, MILC 'growth' is essentially flat).
 
Upvote 0

ahsanford

Particular Member
Aug 16, 2012
8,620
1,651
neuroanatomist said:
Until the functional limitations of mirrorless are overcome (particularly in terms of AF, also battery life and ergonomics), I won't consider a MILC as a dSLR replacement. Therefore, the key desire for me is size/portability. I like the size of the M2.

What I'd like to see are a few more native lenses, particularly a fast(ish) short tele prime.


+1. This. Canon, for a boatload of reasons, is very very very hesitant to go big with mirrorless.

I continue to argue that (beyond the obvious 'threat to their SLR sales' reason) Canon is waiting for the market to make up it's mind about mirrorless: should it be smaller than a same-sensored SLR or should it be as comprehensive / capable as a pro SLR platform?

As much as all of us may believe the answer to that is obvious, it is not. There are two large and distinct groups that want fairly different systems here, and Canon is dragging its feet to avoid making the wrong call. So as much they have SLR cannibalization to fear with a mirrorless offering, Canon also may make the wrong new product investments and lose a lot of money.

Back to my small vs. comprehensive question: if you argue the former = Canon should cap focal lengths to something reasonable and keep the aggregate lens + body size small. Think APS-C. Think Fuji. Yes, Fuji are selling some longer glass now, but they are a very attractive smaller rig option for more bread and butter focal lengths, say 24-85 (FF equivalent) or so. IQ is solid, controls are intuitive and their users seem very happy. This path should heavily beef up EOS-M's functionality/features (many many threads on this already, nothing new to say here) and native EF-M lens offerings.

If you argue the latter = mirrorless' appeal is far more about what mirrorless can do better than a traditional OVF SLR and less about size. If that is where the market goes, Canon should bite the bullet and go straight FF mirrorless and let folks bolt standard EF glass on it.

- A
 
Upvote 0