Why R5 Mechanical shutter shock so serious? Amost makes it useless.

Rzrsharp

EOS M6 Mark II
Sep 8, 2020
61
20
Read the 1/100s mechanical shutter shock issue before and after purchase of R5. I did not take it seriously, as a DSLR user, i thought any shock is peanut compared with mirror flip.

But, suprisely, I'm not so impressive the image from R5. I felt my R5 is not always as sharp as my 5D (I,II,III,IV, i did not miss any one), most case, it's worse.

I started to suspect the shutter shock and decided do a test myown.

Camera settings, IBIS: On, Anti-flickr: OFF, Image format: RAW, AF Mode: Single, AF Method: Spot (centre)
Lens: EF 24-70/2.8L II + Ring
Aperture: f/2.8
Focal Length: 70mm
Shooting distance: 1.5m
Camera holding: hand hold
Explanation: mechanical shutter and Elec. 1st Curtain, take 3 photos at each of 1/60s, 1/100s, 1/200s, 1/400s, 1/500s shutter speed

1st, 1/100s, this is the major complaint.
Unlucky, my one is very serious, clearly blur with MS.
1-1-100.jpg
 

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Rzrsharp

EOS M6 Mark II
Sep 8, 2020
61
20
Does my EOS R5 play badly too much or it's just an issue of all?
I shoot each photo with my best through EVF, I just cannot take a crispy, razer sharp image from mechanical shutter.
The mechanical shutter is useless to me now.
 

Sporgon

5% of gear used 95% of the time
CR Pro
Does my EOS R5 play badly too much or it's just an issue of all?
I shoot each photo with my best through EVF, I just cannot take a crispy, razer sharp image from mechanical shutter.
The mechanical shutter is useless to me now.
I've noticed similar effects with my 5DS even with MLU, so it's not just mirrorless. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with your R5, just welcome to the world of very high resolution potential FF sensors ;)
 
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koenkooi

EOS 5D Mark IV
CR Pro
Feb 25, 2015
1,598
1,456
I've noticed similar effects with my 5DS even with MLU, so it's not just mirrorless.[..]

Does sharpness increase when going from 1/100s to 1/60s as well on your 5DS when using non-IS lenses?
 

Sporgon

5% of gear used 95% of the time
CR Pro
Does sharpness increase when going from 1/100s to 1/60s as well on your 5DS when using non-IS lenses?
I honestly don't know as I haven't tested for it. I first came across the difference in sharpness between EFC and mechanical shutter when checking lenses for AFMA. I'd be surprised if it did get sharper at the lower shutter speed when there's no IS involved, but as I said, I haven't any evidence that I know of.

From a technical point of view the difference in sharpness is of interest but in practice I'm not concerned about it, unlike the softness that f/16 produces with distant subjects on the 50mp sensor !
 

YuengLinger

EOS R6
CR Pro
Dec 20, 2012
3,452
1,886
USA
It can be frustrating! One of the compromises with the R5 is needing to remember to use electronic first curtain shutter in this range of shutter speeds. As has been suggested here and elsewhere on the web, we need as many owners as possible to write to Canon, to demonstrate the issue as you have done here, and to ask for a firmware fix that addresses this. One idea floating around is an option to let there camera automatically switch to electronic first curtain in the danger zone of shutter speeds, and to go back to Mechanical at higher shutter speeds.

Please contact Canon and share your examples! I believe it is asking too much of photographers to be constantly thinking about their shutter speed in addition to all the other factors we are working with, especially in high end bodies that should be freeing us up to concentrate on the moment, not the settings!
 
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privatebydesign

I post too Much on Here!!
CR Pro
Jan 29, 2011
10,006
4,792
Does my EOS R5 play badly too much or it's just an issue of all?
I shoot each photo with my best through EVF, I just cannot take a crispy, razer sharp image from mechanical shutter.
The mechanical shutter is useless to me now.
Going by the results you have shown I’d say it isn’t “an issue” at all.

The mechanical shutter wasn’t “useless to you“ until somebody else pointed out the phenomena and you tested your own camera?
 
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YuengLinger

EOS R6
CR Pro
Dec 20, 2012
3,452
1,886
USA
Going by the results you have shown I’d say it isn’t “an issue” at all.

The mechanical shutter wasn’t “useless to you“ until somebody else pointed out the phenomena and you tested your own camera?
You might have misread his post. He read about the issue before buying the camera, disregarding it as a serious problem. After using it he realized that the phenomenon is real and significantly softens images shot at 1/60 of a second through 1/200 of a second.

This is a problem, and for now it requires being aware of shutter speeds when using both mechanical and electronic first curtain. If we are using a wide aperture in changing light situations, we are likely to run into image quality problems at high shutter speeds and lower shutter speeds, unless we are always aware of what shutter speed we are using and change the shutter mode. This isn't very practical.
 

Czardoom

EOS 90D
Jan 27, 2020
195
432
Since I'm not a pixel peeper and understand that higher MP cameras will have less sharpness the more you zoom in, I'll be glad to take this camera off your hands and remove all your stress and worries. :)
 
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privatebydesign

I post too Much on Here!!
CR Pro
Jan 29, 2011
10,006
4,792
You might have misread his post. He read about the issue before buying the camera, disregarding it as a serious problem. After using it he realized that the phenomenon is real and significantly softens images shot at 1/60 of a second through 1/200 of a second.

This is a problem, and for now it requires being aware of shutter speeds when using both mechanical and electronic first curtain. If we are using a wide aperture in changing light situations, we are likely to run into image quality problems at high shutter speeds and lower shutter speeds, unless we are always aware of what shutter speed we are using and change the shutter mode. This isn't very practical.
Seriously?
 

magarity

EOS RP
CR Pro
Feb 14, 2017
279
194
I don't have an R series so maybe this is a dumb question but how big are the red focus squares on them? In the mirrored cameras those are really small. So are you really blowing it up to billboard size to get the red squares so large in your examples or is that size configurable and you're showing the whole frame?
 

YuengLinger

EOS R6
CR Pro
Dec 20, 2012
3,452
1,886
USA
I don't have an R series so maybe this is a dumb question but how big are the red focus squares on them? In the mirrored cameras those are really small. So are you really blowing it up to billboard size to get the red squares so large in your examples or is that size configurable and you're showing the whole frame?
It noticeably affects the sharpness of the whole image when at normal viewing size. You have to take into account, with these images, that CR compresses what we upload and makes critical comparisons difficult. That is one reason you are seeing those of us who have been stung by this shutter-shock posting such tight crops.

Of course experienced photographers expect shutter-shock with dSLR's at shutter speeds BELOW 100th of a second--generally in special situations on a tripod. But those of us coming to higher resolution mirrorless with an IBIS mechanism are naturally surprised to see shutter shock from 1/60th of a second through 1/200th of a second. We buy a 45MP camera with cutting edge lenses for sharpness, not what looks like a kit lens on a 20D.

If you have the camera, and you simply test for yourself, you can see the problem. And that is a GOOD thing, because when you wonder wtf happened with some images you expected to be tack sharp, you can stop lashing yourself with a cat-o'-nine tails because you think your technique was off. You know what you are dealing with.

This problem might be associated with the IBIS cradle (even with IBIS off), or it might be the 45MP. Whatever, it is an unexpected PITA!

If you just leave EFCS on all the time, and you are using wide apertures in Av mode, before you know it, you are in very fast shutter speed territory where backgrounds start looking nervous and dark. If you stay in mechanical, well, you get soft images from 1/60th to 1/200th even with IBIS/IS activated.

Is that optimal? Can Canon put in an option to have the shutter mode automatically switch based on shutter speeds? I believe other brands have already done so.

If it isn't a problem for you, great! But you won't be harmed by Canon addressing the issue.
 
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YuengLinger

EOS R6
CR Pro
Dec 20, 2012
3,452
1,886
USA
Does my EOS R5 play badly too much or it's just an issue of all?
I shoot each photo with my best through EVF, I just cannot take a crispy, razer sharp image from mechanical shutter.

The mechanical shutter is useless to me now.

This is not true. Please read my above post.
 
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