Patent: New big white lens designs for the EF mount

Architect1776 · Nov 7, 2019

This is interesting. Looks like the EF mount still has some life left in it. Of course it is 100% compatible with the RF and M mounts so this is a win win for many with EF mount cameras but also want to try a mirrorless.
Canon had a great vision over 30 years ago with the EF mount that all others stuck with old primitive tech then and are now severely paying for that lack of vision today.

risto0 · Nov 7, 2019

400mm and 600mm just came out. Does it mean that replacements are already on its way?

keithcooper · Nov 7, 2019

These could perfectly well be RF designs - longer lenses don't tend to have the short BF distance that's an obvious RF pointer. At some point the RF versions will come - maybe to go with a mirrorless 1D X level model

BTW In the US patent application there is a discussion of the focusing mechanism that might suggest we'll see a reasonable drop in minimum focus distance
USPTO

YuengLinger · Nov 7, 2019

It would be a headscratcher that they'd currently be developing these for EF, as new versions are already out. I hope it doesn't mean that, looking at the horizon, Canon has little faith in its EVF development. On the other hand, maybe they are worried that no matter how good an EVF, the photographers most likely to buy these would not want to go mirrorless...even years from now???

Or maybe there are aspects to the patents that Canon wants to protect so competitors can't use them?

StoicalEtcher · Nov 7, 2019

YuengLinger said:
Or maybe there are aspects to the patents that Canon wants to protect so competitors can't use them?

Always a strong reason for patents, if there are no plans/needs to actually produce yourself right now.

unfocused · Nov 7, 2019

I would expect that we will see new 500mm and 800mm EF lenses. It would make sense to announce these around the same time as the new 1Dx III and in time for the Olympics. That would mean the major big white primes are updated and good for another 6-10 years. Right now, there is little reason to offer big whites in the R mount.

navastronia · Nov 7, 2019

YuengLinger said:
It would be a headscratcher that they'd currently be developing these for EF, as new versions are already out. I hope it doesn't mean that, looking at the horizon, Canon has little faith in its EVF development. On the other hand, maybe they are worried that no matter how good an EVF, the photographers most likely to buy these would not want to go mirrorless...even years from now???

Or maybe there are aspects to the patents that Canon wants to protect so competitors can't use them?

Today's industry-leading EVF is found in the S1R and the just-released SL2. Neither of these are sports cameras. I'm not going to bet on it, but a mirrorless pro R should have an EVF at least this good, especially given what it's used for.

YuengLinger · Nov 7, 2019

StoicalEtcher said:
Always a strong reason for patents, if there are no plans/needs to actually produce yourself right now.

Then this might be the Occam's Razor hypothesis.

YuengLinger · Nov 7, 2019

navastronia said:
Today's industry-leading EVF is found in the S1R and the just-released SL2. Neither of these are sports cameras. I'm not going to bet on it, but a mirrorless pro R should have an EVF at least this good, especially given what it's used for.

I just did a search and learned that the Leica, Panasonic, and new Sony uses this same EVF. But I couldn't find a clear answer to who makes the EVF...

Yes, it looks great!

blackcoffee17 · Nov 7, 2019

unfocused said:
I would expect that we will see new 500mm and 800mm EF lenses. It would make sense to announce these around the same time as the new 1Dx III and in time for the Olympics. That would mean the major big white primes are updated and good for another 6-10 years. Right now, there is little reason to offer big whites in the R mount.

Canon could have made 2 versions of the new whites, with EF and RF mount.

padam · Nov 7, 2019

navastronia said:
Today's industry-leading EVF is found in the S1R and the just-released SL2. Neither of these are sports cameras. I'm not going to bet on it, but a mirrorless pro R should have an EVF at least this good, especially given what it's used for.

It's not that simple unfortunately.
EVF resolution is one thing, and what the sensor is able to feed into it full-time (and with as little lag as possible) is another, there is a reason why the TOL A9II has kept the lesser resolution EVF, and for that matter the SL2's live feed isn't as crisp either, so it is a fine line between them.

But it is safe to say that Canon likes to segment things and it's going to be a newer model, too, so the EVF should improve over what's in the R right now.

YuengLinger said:
I hope it doesn't mean that, looking at the horizon, Canon has little faith in its EVF development.

They have a TOL EVF (6k$) available for their cinema cameras , so yes, they have faith in EVF development

navastronia · Nov 7, 2019

padam said:
It's not that simple unfortunately.
EVF resolution is one thing, and what the sensor is able to feed into it full-time (and with as little lag as possible) is another, there is a reason why the TOL A9II has kept the lesser resolution EVF, and for that matter the SL2's live feed isn't as crisp either, so it is a fine line between them.

I don't think you can argue, necessarily, that Sony kept the A9's lower resolution EVF for the A9II due to performance concerns. Isn't it just as likely that they wanted to update only what was most necessary, while watching their bottom line?

What lag is there in the SL2? Is it between the subject and what's seen in the EVF? Is it worse than any lag observed in the A9? Just curious, if you have a source. And if this kind of lag does exist, you're right, it could be attributed to a system that can't drive the EVF fast enough to keep pace with the subject being captured. And, by all means, if the same folks who calculate sensor throughput want to step in and offer some guesses at the processing speed a higher rez EVF would necessitate, go ahead, but my understanding of this is too amateur to speculate especially about the relationship between subject/EVF lag and processing/sensor speed.

It bears mentioning that both the 3.6 million dot EVF in the a9 and the 5.76 million dot EVF in the S1R can each display at 120 fps, according to Imaging Resource. It would be a shame if the higher resolution and silky-smooth refresh came at the cost of subject lag, but even if this is the case in the S1R, I wouldn't assume the same in a new Canon system with different (and potentially must faster) architecture.

slclick · Nov 8, 2019

YuengLinger said:
It would be a headscratcher that they'd currently be developing these for EF, as new versions are already out. I hope it doesn't mean that, looking at the horizon, Canon has little faith in its EVF development. On the other hand, maybe they are worried that no matter how good an EVF, the photographers most likely to buy these would not want to go mirrorless...even years from now???

Or maybe there are aspects to the patents that Canon wants to protect so competitors can't use them?

The demise of the EF is based upon , well..nothing. It''s the mirrorless folks need to reinforce the lie they have been telling us for the past year that DSLR's are dead. It will be a slow death, maybe by 2035.

SteveC · Nov 8, 2019

slclick said:
The demise of the EF is based upon , well..nothing. It''s the mirrorless folks need to reinforce the lie they have been telling us for the past year that DSLR's are dead. It will be a slow death, maybe by 2035.

We will most likely reach a point where 98% of ILCs sold are mirrorless, and people will at that point wake up and realize that DSLRs have become a niche, like film has. Good work can be done with it, but very few would do so.

YuengLinger · Nov 8, 2019

slclick said:
The demise of the EF is based upon , well..nothing. It''s the mirrorless folks need to reinforce the lie they have been telling us for the past year that DSLR's are dead. It will be a slow death, maybe by 2035.

Who are these "mirrorless folks"?

SteveC · Nov 8, 2019

slclick said:
That is the most ricockulous thing I have read here in a long time. Niche... like film. When were you born? Pre 1990?

I was.

I'm assuming your issue is with my use of the word "niche" to describe film cameras today. "Niche" wasn't intended to belittle, so if you took it that way I apologize for lack of clarity. It just means it's a comparatively rare way to take pictures these days. And someday DSLRs will be rarer than mirrorless. Rare doesn't mean bad; many people do excellent work with film today, and they will do excellent work with DSLRs even if/when they become rare compared to mirrorless. (And DSLRs will have one advantage against film--they don't use as a consumable an item that's largely no longer being produced.)

Of course, you can disagree that DSLRs will become a small percentage of ILC cameras at some point in the future (I haven't said when, bit I am thinking within the next 15 years). And I'd have to concede you could well be right. I figure it won't happen ever unless the sorts of issues that action shooters complain about (justly) get sorted.

unfocused · Nov 8, 2019

SteveC said:
"Niche" wasn't intended to belittle, so if you took it that way I apologize for lack of clarity. It just means it's a comparatively rare way to take pictures these days...

Actually, all cameras that can't place phone calls have long since become niche products.

SteveC said:
...someday DSLRs will be rarer than mirrorless...

Maybe, but maybe not. No one knows. Looking at the situation in 2019, there are pretty good arguments that DSLRs and Mirrorless each have strengths and weaknesses that may make it difficult for one to completely supplant the other. No reason both can't coexist indefinitely

SteveC said:
And DSLRs will have one advantage against film--they don't use as a consumable an item that's largely no longer being produced.

Unless that consumable item happens to be Compact Flash, C-Fast or other storage medium that is no longer being made. But that will impact both DSLRs and Mirrorless equally.

SteveC said:
Of course, you can disagree that DSLRs will become a small percentage of ILC cameras at some point in the future (I haven't said when, bit I am thinking within the next 15 years). And I'd have to concede you could well be right. I figure it won't happen ever unless the sorts of issues that action shooters complain about (justly) get sorted.

That's really the great unknown. But it is more than just action shooters. Read some of the posts from wildlife shooters who don't want to sit in a blind for hours watching their electronic viewfinders drain their batteries away. I repeat once again something that I keep saying: Canon is agnostic about whether or not mirrorless will ultimately replace DSLRs. Only people on this forum take sides. Canon is on the side of selling consumers whatever they want.

Kit. · Nov 8, 2019

risto0 said:
400mm and 600mm just came out. Does it mean that replacements are already on its way?

No, it could be just a byproduct of applying the same design ideas to multiple lenses in the lineup.

Kit. · Nov 8, 2019

YuengLinger said:
Who are these "mirrorless folks"?

Sony "influencers" and people falling for their marketing drivel?

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