canon rumors FORUM

Gear Talk => Deals on Gear => Topic started by: Canon Rumors on November 05, 2012, 11:00:10 PM

Title: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: Canon Rumors on November 05, 2012, 11:00:10 PM
Preorder the gear
The new EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS are both now available for preorder.

Canon EF 24-70 f/4L IS $1499 at B&H Photo | Adorama

Canon EF 35 f/2 IS $849 at B&H Photo | Adorama 

cr

Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: Mt Spokane Photography on November 05, 2012, 11:06:22 PM
I think $1499 is a bit too much.  I'd rather the f/2.8.  I'm expecting some discounting of the f/2.8 before long.
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: papercutMS on November 05, 2012, 11:12:24 PM
Pricing is not too surprising considering Canon's recent trends.

Both lenses are quite a bit overpriced IMO, so I'll pass.
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: sach100 on November 05, 2012, 11:17:58 PM
Thank you Canon - you did it again! yes, this is about pricing  :'(
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: sanj on November 05, 2012, 11:20:48 PM
More than the 24-105? Hmmm. Pass.
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: pierceography on November 05, 2012, 11:23:46 PM
Huh... I was expecting a much lower price for the 24-70.  I can safely assume this effectively kills the 24-70mm f/4 as any sort of kit lens.

This and the 24-70 2.8 mk2 are really making me feel better about my decision to keep my 24-70mm f/2.8 mk1.

Another crappy Canon announcement.
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: DB on November 05, 2012, 11:23:51 PM
As video lenses they're actually quite cheap (look at EF & PL for C300), however, from a stills photography perspective they're a lot cheaper than the new 6D -> who said that you should not scrimp on glass and that you ought to spend nearly as much on the lens as the camera body? Lots of DSLR Photography training books do. No point on having a nice new FF body with improved IQ and putting cheap glass on it. Seriously, amortize these lenses over 3-4 years then factor in the re-sale value....less than $4/week.
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: preppyak on November 05, 2012, 11:25:53 PM
Guess I'll have to wait and see the MTF and reviews on this one. The hybrid IS is nice, as is the near 1:1 macro, but for $1500 it'll have to improve both resolution and distortion over the 24-105 to sell well.
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: preppyak on November 05, 2012, 11:27:23 PM
Huh... I was expecting a much lower price for the 24-70.  I can safely assume this effectively kills the 24-70mm f/4 as any sort of kit lens.
Why, its only a few hundred more than the retail of the 24-105. I actually can't see the logic of having both this and the 24-105 at the same time, so, I'd imagine this will be the kit lens of the future as well.
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: neuroanatomist on November 05, 2012, 11:29:34 PM
Guess I'll have to wait and see the MTF and reviews on this one. The hybrid IS is nice, as is the near 1:1 macro, but for $1500 it'll have to improve both resolution and distortion over the 24-105 to sell well.

+1
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: Positron on November 05, 2012, 11:36:00 PM
I like the lens cap.
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: Dylan777 on November 05, 2012, 11:36:40 PM
The price on 24-70 f4 IS is not that bad, compared to my 24-70 f2.8 II.

6D + 24-70 f4 IS = good combo for crop shooters to jump into FF world with low budget.
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: Dylan777 on November 05, 2012, 11:41:51 PM
Guess I'll have to wait and see the MTF and reviews on this one. The hybrid IS is nice, as is the near 1:1 macro, but for $1500 it'll have to improve both resolution and distortion over the 24-105 to sell well.

+1

Here is MTF chart on new 24-70  f4 IS. Not bad at all :o
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: weekendshooter on November 05, 2012, 11:44:10 PM
so much for my prediction for a cheap, light full frame kit lens! Hopefully it has the IQ to back up that price tag, as the Tamron 24-70/2.8 IS beats it by a stop of light and 5 years of warranty. The purported macro capabilities are interesting, but I'm going to take that with a grain of salt until I see it on an official spec sheet. Even so, not sure that would make me pick that over the Tamron.
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: rbr on November 05, 2012, 11:44:36 PM
Canon USA has the MTF charts up on their site :

http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/ef_lens_lineup/ef_24_70mm_f_4l_is_usm#Overview (http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/ef_lens_lineup/ef_24_70mm_f_4l_is_usm#Overview)

As expected it is much better than the 24-105 at the wide end, but still the very corners at 24mm don't look quite as promising as the new 24-70 f2.8II. There is also no mention of distortion at the wide end and that is anyone's guess at this point. Chances are that the price will come down a bit for those willing to wait a bit and it likely will show up with rebates too eventually. I think I'd like this lens, but I will definitely wait to hear real world reports and reviews before preordering one.
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: DArora on November 05, 2012, 11:47:34 PM
6D + 24-70 f4 IS = good combo for crop shooters to jump into FF world with low budget.

Thats $3600! I can't say that its a low budget camera+lens combo.
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: pierceography on November 05, 2012, 11:48:02 PM
Huh... I was expecting a much lower price for the 24-70.  I can safely assume this effectively kills the 24-70mm f/4 as any sort of kit lens.
Why, its only a few hundred more than the retail of the 24-105. I actually can't see the logic of having both this and the 24-105 at the same time, so, I'd imagine this will be the kit lens of the future as well.

Yeah, well I don't see the logic behind this lens period.  There are MANY other lenses canon should have addressed before this one.  The lens itself doesn't make much sense, so I suppose the price shouldn't either.
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: TriGGy on November 05, 2012, 11:51:15 PM
I'm baffled by the price. But then I guess Canon will make this the replacement for the 24-105. There is no sense that they will co-exist - I think.
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: Dylan777 on November 05, 2012, 11:52:04 PM
6D + 24-70 f4 IS = good combo for crop shooters to jump into FF world with low budget.

Thats $3600! I can't say that its a low budget camera+lens combo.

It just $100 more than my 5D III, no lens
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: weekendshooter on November 05, 2012, 11:53:36 PM
6D + 24-70 f4 IS = good combo for crop shooters to jump into FF world with low budget.

Thats $3600! I can't say that its a low budget camera+lens combo.

Exactly! This new generation of full-frame bodies isn't living up to the hype of "full-frame for the masses" whatsoever. Either a 6D or a D600 with any sort of a zoom is going to push $3k+ and that isn't exactly pennies for anyone I know, nor is it any more affordable than the current prices of previous-generation equipment. I'm sure most people who bought a 5DII recently are very happy with their purchase in light of the 6D, as am I with my D700.
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: Dylan777 on November 05, 2012, 11:54:50 PM
Canon USA has the MTF charts up on their site :

http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/ef_lens_lineup/ef_24_70mm_f_4l_is_usm#Overview (http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/ef_lens_lineup/ef_24_70mm_f_4l_is_usm#Overview)

As expected it is much better than the 24-105 at the wide end, but still the very corners at 24mm don't look quite as promising as the new 24-70 f2.8II. There is also no mention of distortion at the wide end and that is anyone's guess at this point. Chances are that the price will come down a bit for those willing to wait a bit and it likely will show up with rebates too eventually. I think I'd like this lens, but I will definitely wait to hear real world reports and reviews before preordering one.

My guess...this lens will have similar distortion and vignetting at 24mm, same as my 24-70 f2.8 II.
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: LukieLauXD on November 06, 2012, 12:03:46 AM
Nothing will ever beat the 24-105's price for entry into the L-lens club.
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: Mooose on November 06, 2012, 12:19:49 AM
At that price I guess I'm going to have to resort to jerry-rigging my EF-S 17-55 IS f2.8 so it fits on a 6D and do without the corners for a couple years.
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: Old Shooter on November 06, 2012, 12:33:46 AM
Guess I'll have to wait and see the MTF and reviews on this one. The hybrid IS is nice, as is the near 1:1 macro, but for $1500 it'll have to improve both resolution and distortion over the 24-105 to sell well.

+1

Exactly! My 5DIII has taught me that bumping ISO a stop is no longer an IQ sacrifice - so I would look seriously at an f/4 IF it is SHARP!
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: Dylan777 on November 06, 2012, 12:52:58 AM
Guess I'll have to wait and see the MTF and reviews on this one. The hybrid IS is nice, as is the near 1:1 macro, but for $1500 it'll have to improve both resolution and distortion over the 24-105 to sell well.

+1

Exactly! My 5DIII has taught me that bumping ISO a stop is no longer an IQ sacrifice - so I would look seriously at an f/4 IF it is SHARP!

Based on the MTF chart, this lens will not win over 2.8 II in term of sharpness.

When compared to 105, yes...it's way better
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: EchoLocation on November 06, 2012, 12:57:36 AM
6D + 24-70 f4 IS = good combo for crop shooters to jump into FF world with low budget.

Thats $3600! I can't say that its a low budget camera+lens combo.
This... Thats not low budget at all, especially when Nikon is offering a Camera Kit that is very competitive for around $2500 dollars(or less.) I'd say the 24-70 should be better than the Nikon 24-85, but the D600 has better specs than the 6D....and the Nikon kit is $1000 dollars less than Canon!
The recent pricing of Canon items has been a major kick in the balls to their customers.
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: dr croubie on November 06, 2012, 01:22:25 AM
When I read the rumours a few days ago, I was very 'meh' about the whole idea of a 24-70 f/4 replacing a 24-105 f/4. And I was one of those thinking that it has to be less than the $1150 24-105 or it'd be DOA. (I was also one who thought the 6D must be less than 5D2 or it'd be DOA, but see how well that turned out)

But then I read about the 0.7x MM, and the 4-stop Hybrid IS, and I was definitely thinking "this may well be my kit-zoom if I ever move to FF" (if indeed I ever have a kit-zoom for it, i'm a Prime kinda guy right now).

But then I saw the $1500 price, and was back to 'meh'.


Still, for others it may well be a very good choice, and a very good pairing to a 6D (although I still don't see why you'd buy a 6D over a 5D2). Especially given the 'rebelisation' of the 6D, most people 'moving up' from a rebel / xxxD / xxD (who probably only got their rebel as moving up from a P&S) will obviously need a new lens. And they're also probably the kinds of people who would be more impressed by a 'do-it-all' lens, being able to do decent macros without buying a dedicated macro lens is going to save you $500 or $1000 already. (hell, even I remember my first P&S, I was impressed by the 1cm-macro).
(Also please don't write stuff like "but i'm a rebel user and I want a 6D but i'm not buying this lens because...". You're not. If you're reading this then by definition you're the 1% of gearheads, not the 99% of consumers to whom this is targeted).

As for the price, well yeah. $3500 (probably closer to $3000 in a kit, don't forget a 5D2+24-105 kit was only $600 more than the body-only) is not exactly 'FF For the masses'. But canon's definitely not going back to non-L for FF zooms, probably ever, the 28-135 is probably last of its kind. They'll be more expensive than nikon surely, but they'll really have to make sure the salesmen sell the advantages of Good-Glass(tm) over Better-Sensor.
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: schmidtfilme on November 06, 2012, 01:33:01 AM

Quote
This... Thats not low budget at all, especially when Nikon is offering a Camera Kit that is very competitive for around $2500 dollars(or less.) I'd say the 24-70 should be better than the Nikon 24-85, but the D600 has better specs than the 6D....and the Nikon kit is $1000 dollars less than Canon!
The recent pricing of Canon items has been a major kick in the balls to their customers.

To me ist looks like Canon wants to adress its recent earnings by raising prices....not sure if thats smart.
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: sanj on November 06, 2012, 01:57:39 AM
Is it not an assumption that this lens will replace the 24-105?
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: 87vr6 on November 06, 2012, 02:00:06 AM
I pre-ordered mine from Adorama. I rented the 24-70 II back in september. I shoot a 5D3, while I loved the IQ, I missed having the IS from my previous 24-105 in many situations, leading me to comtemplate buying a 24 IS+24-70II (I really do need IS for a lot of my shooting), but this lens will allow me to buy one and be done with it. Can't wait... Hopefully I have it before Feb...

Nothing will ever beat the 24-105's price for entry into the L-lens club.


No?
http://shop.usa.canon.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10051_10051_171804_-1 (http://shop.usa.canon.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10051_10051_171804_-1)

http://shop.usa.canon.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10051_10051_187467_-8 (http://shop.usa.canon.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10051_10051_187467_-8)

Both of those look cheaper than a 24-105....
http://shop.usa.canon.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10051_10051_158203_-8 (http://shop.usa.canon.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10051_10051_158203_-8)

Just saying.
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: traveller on November 06, 2012, 05:01:57 AM
£1500 for an f/4 standard zoom!!! Seriously, this lens should be pretty simple and cheap to manufacture (L-class enhancements notwithstanding).  I expect that its street price will fall closer to the £1200 mark, but for me that is still 50% over-priced; even DPReview seem pretty incredulous. 

This lens can be as sharp as it likes, I am still not interested.  For me, the whole point of accepting the compromise of an f/4 lens is versatility and it lacks both versatility (24-105L) and speed (24-70 L II).  Sorry, but a crappy semi-macro mode doesn't do it for me. 

Canon would have been better served updating the 24-105L or I suspect, for the consumer market, the 28-135 IS.  No doubt this lens will be good at what it does, but if being a good lightweight travel lens is all that is, then I would suggest a full frame DSLR is the wrong choice of system for most of the target audience.  Here's looking forwards to the new 70-200 f/4L IS II; price £1700!  ;)
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: Nassen0f on November 06, 2012, 05:38:55 AM
WTF 1500 bucks?!? 

How the hell can they pair this to the 6D and make sense of it?

i would rather save a little more for the 2.8 then, and since that will never happen, Thanks canon, for dissapointing me again...

i would have understood 800 or maybe even 900, less and less money is gonna go into lenses in the next cupple of years it seems. And Canon is whining "We cant even make a billion anymore" Pfff, no wonder... Shame on you Canon, Shame on you!

I get that a lens can be expensive to make and so on, but lots of other companys sell their items at a loss in the start just to have the price low and get more sold, then they start earning money when the process is larger and easier. But it seems that Canon wants a 500 dollar premium just to call it a L lens..
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: neuroanatomist on November 06, 2012, 05:57:56 AM
WTF 1500 bucks?!?

Me: "WTF?"

Canon: "...a maximum magnification of 0.7x – reducing the need for photographers to carry a dedicated macro lens.  So, what you short-sighted complainers fail to understand is that while you may think this lens seems expensive, if you add up the cost of the 24-105L and 100L Macro, this lens is significantly cheaper, and thus it's a real bargain!"

Me: "WTM-F'nF?!?"
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: EchoLocation on November 06, 2012, 06:41:07 AM
WTF 1500 bucks?!?

Me: "WTF?"

Canon: "...a maximum magnification of 0.7x – reducing the need for photographers to carry a dedicated macro lens.  So, what you short-sighted complainers fail to understand is that while you may think this lens seems expensive, if you add up the cost of the 24-105L and 100L Macro, this lens is significantly cheaper, and thus it's a real bargain!"

Me: "WTM-F'nF?!?"
Neuro, I have a lot of respect for you, but this lens is ridiculously overpriced. Maybe some people expect to pay $1500 for an f4 lens, but I think that's absurd.
The Canon 24-70 2.8 II should have been $1800 or less, and this F4 lens should be no more than $1200 starting price.
This Macro thing should be a perk for people paying 1000 dollars for a lens, not a reason to double the price of the current 24-105(which was on sale for $750 just a few weeks ago.) I don't believe this lens takes the place of the 100L.
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: EchoLocation on November 06, 2012, 06:48:22 AM
Bunch of self-entitled whiners. People keep forgetting electronics are usually expensive when they first come out and the prices eventually drop. You do not need to buy these lenses right now or ever if you don't want to.
I'm not whining at all. The truth is, If this lens was 700 dollars I still wouldn't buy it. I already switched to Nikon a few months ago and this only makes the decision I made that much better. I'm simply laughing at how ridiculously out of touch Canon's prices have been over the past couple 18 months.
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: Etienne on November 06, 2012, 06:50:19 AM
Generally I am uninterested in an f4 lens, but 0.7 macro and hybrid IS on a standard zoom is unique and useful, especially in a small package.

I'll wait on the tests, and the price if it's packaged with a 6D. A 6D plus 24-70 f/4 kit at $2900 might be quite a good deal.
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: Canon-F1 on November 06, 2012, 07:00:31 AM
A 6D plus 24-70 f/4 kit at $2900 might be quite a good deal.

 i don´t think so.
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: Etienne on November 06, 2012, 07:05:18 AM
The 35 f/2 IS is very interesting to me. Priced a bit high, but I can see getting a lot of use out of it.
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: kevl on November 06, 2012, 07:15:00 AM
I don't believe this lens takes the place of the 100L.

Exactly. It may be much better than you would normally get with a 24-70 but it isn't going to replace an actual macro lens. Like someone else said above this feature is a perk for someone paying $1,000 for a lens, not an incentive to pay $1500. A used 100L macro will server the buyer MUCH MUCH better.

This may seem like bashing, but if your photography work includes macro shots and you don't have a bag that can hold your macro lens then what are you thinking??

This lens seems like a prosumer type lens that is simply over priced. Would it be good at video for pros? Sure... but before I paid a premium for this lens I would put the money into a stabilizer and fly all of my lenses instead of paying for IS in this one lens.

Just my thoughts but here's another lens that will make me look at products other than canon, and used canon lenses. 

Kev
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: albron00 on November 06, 2012, 07:26:10 AM
Nikon's enthusiastic D600 kit lens 24-85mm F3.5-4.5G ED VR sells  for about £410 / €500.
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: Eimajm on November 06, 2012, 07:57:47 AM
How glad am I that just bought a 24-105 F4 last month at half the price of the new 24-70 F4.
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: RLPhoto on November 06, 2012, 08:02:52 AM
Canon EF 24-70 f/4L IS retail price - 1500$

DOA.
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: dstppy on November 06, 2012, 08:03:24 AM
Wow, four pages of 'this is too expensive'.

IIRC people complained about the 15-85mm price, but it's really worth the money, so I'll wait and see.  From the description of the 35mm, I'm wondering why it doesn't get an "L" label, is it because they only carry one L at a time?

The 24-70 actually makes sense to me now; if they'd have given the 24-105 the same workover/upgrade, we'd be staring at $2200 to $2400.  Then we'd have complaining for four pages . . . oh wait.

In all seriousness, a lot of people here treat MSRP like it's built in stone. Anyone that can't get a 5DmkIII for around $2900 with a light amount of work/patience isn't trying very hard, so let's stop pretending like these aren't going to be bundled/adjusted.

The 40mm pancake can be had for $150 recently, so let's wait and see where the price drops come before we wail, lament, and move to Nikon.  With this announcement, no one's gear burst into flames, we need to stop acting like it.
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: AdamJ on November 06, 2012, 08:25:16 AM
WTF 1500 bucks?!?

Me: "WTF?"

Canon: "...a maximum magnification of 0.7x – reducing the need for photographers to carry a dedicated macro lens.  So, what you short-sighted complainers fail to understand is that while you may think this lens seems expensive, if you add up the cost of the 24-105L and 100L Macro, this lens is significantly cheaper, and thus it's a real bargain!"

Me: "WTM-F'nF?!?"
Neuro, I have a lot of respect for you, but this lens is ridiculously overpriced. Maybe some people expect to pay $1500 for an f4 lens, but I think that's absurd.
The Canon 24-70 2.8 II should have been $1800 or less, and this F4 lens should be no more than $1200 starting price.
This Macro thing should be a perk for people paying 1000 dollars for a lens, not a reason to double the price of the current 24-105(which was on sale for $750 just a few weeks ago.) I don't believe this lens takes the place of the 100L.

You misunderstood Neuro's post. He was saying "WTM-F'nF" to Canon's supposed belief that the macro function makes this lens a bargain.
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: neuroanatomist on November 06, 2012, 08:37:02 AM
WTF 1500 bucks?!?

Me: "WTF?"

Canon: "...a maximum magnification of 0.7x – reducing the need for photographers to carry a dedicated macro lens.  So, what you short-sighted complainers fail to understand is that while you may think this lens seems expensive, if you add up the cost of the 24-105L and 100L Macro, this lens is significantly cheaper, and thus it's a real bargain!"

Me: "WTM-F'nF?!?"
Neuro, I have a lot of respect for you, but this lens is ridiculously overpriced.

I know. What part of WTM-F'nF?!? makes you think I think it's reasonable?   ::)
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: Canon 14-24 on November 06, 2012, 08:40:08 AM
Another 6 month period of announcements with no 14-24 lens, with my 14-24 savings account growing larger each time. At this point I wouldn't mind dropping up to $3500 (more than the Zeiss 15mm) on a Canon 14-24 2.8 than wait years on other oddball lens announcements! If Canon wants to charge a super premium on that lens, I couldn't care less, just push it up the pipeline for production!
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: Canon-F1 on November 06, 2012, 08:44:12 AM
In all seriousness, a lot of people here treat MSRP like it's built in stone. Anyone that can't get a 5DmkIII for around $2900 with a light amount of work/patience isn't trying very hard, so let's stop pretending like these aren't going to be bundled/adjusted.


2900 euro.... and is it worth 600 euro more then the D800? ..... imho not.

850 euro (you know what that is in dollar?) for a 35mm f2.... pffhhh.
and that´s a preorder price i saw.


sigma here i come!!

Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: EchoLocation on November 06, 2012, 09:21:09 AM
WTF 1500 bucks?!?

Me: "WTF?"

Canon: "...a maximum magnification of 0.7x – reducing the need for photographers to carry a dedicated macro lens.  So, what you short-sighted complainers fail to understand is that while you may think this lens seems expensive, if you add up the cost of the 24-105L and 100L Macro, this lens is significantly cheaper, and thus it's a real bargain!"

Me: "WTM-F'nF?!?"
Neuro, I have a lot of respect for you, but this lens is ridiculously overpriced. Maybe some people expect to pay $1500 for an f4 lens, but I think that's absurd.
The Canon 24-70 2.8 II should have been $1800 or less, and this F4 lens should be no more than $1200 starting price.
This Macro thing should be a perk for people paying 1000 dollars for a lens, not a reason to double the price of the current 24-105(which was on sale for $750 just a few weeks ago.) I don't believe this lens takes the place of the 100L.

You misunderstood Neuro's post. He was saying "WTM-F'nF" to Canon's supposed belief that the macro function makes this lens a bargain.
Ok, that would make more sense. And thus, we agree..... WTH!!!! $1500? $800 for a non L prime? What happened to the reasonably priced segment of lenses that were only $400(old mid level primes) to $900(24-105)? $900 is a lot of money!
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: bchernicoff on November 06, 2012, 09:23:07 AM
Personally, this just reinforces my decision to wait for a sale on the Tamron 2.8 VC.

Probably time for a road trip up to B&H to play with one.
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: RustyTheGeek on November 06, 2012, 09:30:29 AM
PRICE RANT Ahead...   (and sorry for the length)

First, I gotta say that all the non-Canon/Nikon companies are loving this.  Tamron, Sigma, Sony, Samsung, Fuji, Pentax, etc.  At least for the market that isn't yet heavily invested in lenses.  But I don't think that market is really the market Canon wants.  Are you a photo enthusiast?  Read on...

I've watched and waited for new Canon gear with anticipation for a couple years.  When prices were released for the 5D3, 24-IS and 28-IS  I was shocked, esp for standard EF prime lenses.  Then the 24-70 f/2.8 II arrived.  Well, compared to the overpriced 70-200 f/2.8 II not surprised but still disappointed with Canon.  Now the new 24-70 f/4 arrives, huge shock.  After the previous insane EF 24-IS and 28-IS (non L!) lens prices, the EF 35-IS price was no surprise either but all of these prices are a big disappointment and just stupid expensive.  Most every photo product that Canon has released this year including the G1X, etc shows a consistent Canon pricing trend to heavily gouge the market.  They are trying to re-establish the general base price line upward and train everyone to pay more across the board.  Perhaps they are following Apple's practice of demanding 40% margins.  The real suckers that Canon is aiming for are the enthusiasts that are willing to spend more than pros on whatever the coolest current thing is, over and over.  Pros don't upgrade the tools of their trade at the drop of a hat, they have a business to run.  They take pictures for profit and mostly buy what they need.  It takes time/effort to upgrade to a new body and if the expense doesn't result in a better business, it can wait.  Enthusiasts buy because they need another endorphin high that results from another cool toy to add to their collection.  They equate better pictures with better hardware.  Canon loves these folks and is taking marketing to them to a whole new level.  Most experienced photographers, those folks that have taken thousands of pictures over the years, don't buy equipment as often because they already have gear that works for them.

I (finally) just bought a new $2899 5D3 deal recently because that price was closer to the price I think the 5D3 should be worth and I've patiently waited for quite a while.  I would have waited more if necessary.  I've used a 5Dc for years and I skipped the 5DII.  I bought a few L lenses (most used) while I waited.  I get satisfaction knowing I got a great lens for a good deal and then enjoy taking pictures.  The 5Dc and I take great pictures together.  Guess what?  The 5D3 didn't make me a better photographerIn fact, it has temporarily made me worse until I get as comfortable with it as my trusty 5Dc.  It has a mountain of new things to learn.  I'm an IT guy, I can learn new tech, but it still takes time and effort.  All my EF and L lenses are still good lenses.  I'm sure as hell not going to start replacing them with new (or even used) at the current insane prices today!  Take a look at what you currently have.  Is it that lacking?  Really?  Or could it wait 6 months to send Canon a wake up call to drop their prices?  When I read books from legendary photographers, I see stellar images and think, "That image was made 10 or 20 years ago and it's breathtaking."  You don't need a 5D3 and/or a 24-70 f/2.8 II to make wonderful pictures.  And even if you think you do, you don't need it immediately at these insane prices.  Those that jumped right away at $3499 for the 5D3 paid $600+ more than the camera was worth IMHO and sent a message to Canon that $3499 is a good price point, keep it up!

Come on everyone - Wake Up!  Do you really need this stuff at these prices?

Canon has lost me for quite a while until they WTFU and get past this insanity.  I am running away from these prices.  In fact, I'm considering selling a few things now, not buying more.  Unfortunately, there are thousands of fans out there that simply MUST buy all this new gear right away at whatever price is asked which will delay the return to reasonable prices for at least a year or two instead of just a few months.  If the market (enthusiasts) ran away at these prices, they would quickly drop.  But Canon expects enough enthusiasts to accept and swallow this price point to demand it and rake in cash which is a real shame.  In this case, Canon equates "Enthusiasts" to = "Suckers"Our society has become so impatient and demanding of instant gratification at any cost that most consumers have truly become sheep.  Upgrade cycles for expensive luxury items have become months, not years.  Sorry if this offends you but if it does, then think a minute about why it offends you.  Then go shoot some pictures in a 3rd World Country or even just a poor part of town.
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: Canon-F1 on November 06, 2012, 09:41:20 AM
  Enthusiasts buy because they need another endorphin high that results from another cool toy to add to their collection.  They equate better pictures with better hardware.  Canon loves these folks and is taking marketing to them to a whole new level.

+1 !!

and im honest i feel it too.  :)

i don´t need a new 35mm but for a decent price i would buy a new one.
so i should be thankful that canon decided to come up with such overpriced gear.  ;)

same for camera bodys.
NO WAY i buy a 6D... but my desire for a second (backup) FF body is great.

6D... not with such a "artificial" crippled AF!

hell i don´t buy apple products.... so why should i buy overpriced canon products.
 
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: jm345 on November 06, 2012, 09:55:04 AM
How useful will the macro be? Dpreview says, "This all looks great in paper, but in practice things are a little more complicated, because the working distance in macro mode ends up being only about 3cm / 1.2" from the front of the lens to the subject. At this point, you're shooting an image area of about 51mm x 34mm (2" x 1.3") using a lens with a front diameter of 83mm (3.3"), which might make lighting your subject relatively difficult."

Plus, you would need adapters to attach one of the Canon macro-flashes.
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: bchernicoff on November 06, 2012, 09:55:12 AM
Rusty, I think your post is right on the money for the most part. Like you I have patiently shopped for used or refurbished lenses and bodies. I fall firmly into your enthusiast category with a collection of lenses. I owned a 7D and loved its AF and overall speed, but then sold it for the 5D Mk II's IQ. I was really looking forward to what the Mk3 would offer. When it was announced I salivated at the thought of even more speed and image quality, but was also shocked at the price. The speed and improved AF would help me take better pictures based on my shooting style... I don't do a lot of planning or tripod shooting and the AF on the Mk II did cause me to miss shots. Deciding that the Mk 3 represented the perfect camera for me and the one I would keep for the next 4-5 years, I preordered. I felt sick when the first killer deals popped up at the end of the summer, but then remembered all the rad shots I've gotten since my camera arrived.

Which brings me to the new lenses. I get a ton of use out of my 24-105 and none of the recent offerings are better enough to justify me spending any money. With the Canon 24-70 2.8, I would gain one stop and IQ, but lose IS and focal length...not worth nearly 3x the street price of 24-105. With the 24-70 f/4 IS, I would gain IQ, but lose focal length...for a similar price to 24-105, sure...for 2x the cost, no way. Which brings me to the Tamron. It would loose focal length, tie IQ, and gain a stop for 1.5 the cost...that is starting to get more interesting. If I see a sale I will probably buy one.
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: neuroanatomist on November 06, 2012, 09:59:50 AM
Plus, you would need adapters to attach one of the Canon macro-flashes.

There's not even a 77mm Macrolite adapter - you'd have to get a step-down ring for the Macrolite 72C.  The mount ring for the MR-14EX and MT-24EX is 58mm.  On a lens with a 77mm front element, even at the tele end of the zoom, I suspect you'd get mechanical vignetting from the mount.  So to make it work, you'd need the MT-24EX and a amcro flash bracket like the RRS setup.  That brings the cost of the lens + macro flash setup to around $3000.  This bargain just keeps on getting better, doesn't it?   ::)
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: RustyTheGeek on November 06, 2012, 10:01:04 AM
Thanks for the +1 confirmation Canon-F1.

The brutal truth is that great pictures can be made with a Rebel and kit lenses.  I simply buy the D range bodies and L lenses because I take a LOT of pictures in harsh conditions for several groups that have come to appreciate, expect and depend on the images.  So it matters somewhat in my case but not so much that I'll lose my head.  I'm a new buyer to replace some of my old gear at about 60%-70% of the current insane prices.  So I'll wait and continue to enjoy what I have.
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: mortadella on November 06, 2012, 10:07:12 AM
Trying to figure out what this will mean for the 24-105?  Seems like many believe these 2 lenses can't coexist in the Canon lineup and if they do it's too pricey to be a kit lens.

This is how I break it down:

24-105L MSRP is $1149, when purchased in a kit you save $349.  A savings of ~ 30%.

Use that example in trying to determine whether the 24-70f4 will be a kit or not you end up with this:

30% off the $1500 MSRP will give you $1000 addition to the body only price to make it a kt, or if you use the $350 number it would be $1150 adder. 

6D kits would either be $3099 or $3249 - MSRP

5Dmk3 kits would either be $4499 or $4649 - MSRP

At those prices I would say it's plausible that this may replace the 24-105L as the new kit lens.  Everything else is getting more expensive why wouldn't the kit??
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: RustyTheGeek on November 06, 2012, 10:07:23 AM
bchernicoff, thanks for the kind words.

If I were to buy anything soon, it would be other lenses I have wanted that are now bargains compared to the new lenses, esp used.  Like the 100mm L Macro.  Or the 35mm L.
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: plutonium10 on November 06, 2012, 10:09:50 AM
I think it's only a matter of time before there's a big shake-up in Canon management and things go back to what we consider "normal". Yes, this pricing is insane, but it can't last forever if they hope to stay competitive. One big flop will really open their eyes, and that may or may not be what the 6D turns out to be.

The reason I saw the new 24-70 as a logical and useful lens was its usefulness as a high quality, low cost kit lens to keep the price of the 6D kit reasonable. That isn't what we got.
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: Canon-F1 on November 06, 2012, 10:10:58 AM
Quote
Plus, you would need adapters to attach one of the Canon macro-flashes.


macro ringlights are for dentists. ;)

i had a MR-14EX and shoot it to death.. but today i don´t like the look anymore.
my todays setup looks somewhat frankensteined but i like the look of my images much more.

adjustable flash bracket, small ballhead, 580 ex II, small 15x20cm softbox.
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: RustyTheGeek on November 06, 2012, 10:19:45 AM
I think it's only a matter of time before there's a big shake-up in Canon management and things go back to what we consider "normal". Yes, this pricing is insane, but it can't last forever if they hope to stay competitive. One big flop will really open their eyes, and that may or may not be what the 6D turns out to be.

plutonium10, we can only HOPE!  And FWIW, I think the 6D has great promise, esp if it was about $500 less.  That's its biggest fault.  Otherwise, the 6D may well work just fine.  For what I do and how I shoot, it may eventually replace my 5D3.  I'd love to still have what I need and get back ~$1000 some day.  No way to know until the 6d has been out for a while and can be truly compared to the other relevant bodies.  Heck, I barely know my 5D3 as of yet.  No big rush, life goes on....
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: neuroanatomist on November 06, 2012, 10:23:36 AM
adjustable flash bracket, small ballhead, 580 ex II, small 15x20cm softbox.

Yep. I've got a Manfrotto 233B telescoping flash bracket with a Giottos MH-1004 mini ballhead, and OC-E3, and a Lumiquest Softbox III that does a very nice job.  I use the MT-24EX primarily with the MP-E 65mm, but sometimes I use the former setup at the same time (or on a stand triggered remotely) to light the background for macro shots.
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: bchernicoff on November 06, 2012, 10:31:23 AM
bchernicoff, thanks for the kind words.

If I were to buy anything soon, it would be other lenses I have wanted that are now bargains compared to the new lenses, esp used.  Like the 100mm L Macro.  Or the 35mm L.

There's a 100 L on CL near me that looks tempting, but I've spent enough for a while.

I saw your comment above regarding weather sealing...also very important to me. On a trip to Sweden in August I hiked a round an island in the rain for over an hour with the 24-105 and 5D Mk 3. I wouldn't have tried that with the Mk II. Those all would have been missed opportunities.

I guess my point is that I am willing to pony up the big bucks when there is a clear leap in capabilities, but not when the change is incremental...which the two new 24-70's are. The new 35 offer that kind of leap over its predecessor to the video crowd, but not to me.
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: RustyTheGeek on November 06, 2012, 10:31:33 AM
neuroanatomist,

Just for fun (after reading your last post about your flash rigging) I looked at your equipment list and some images on Flickr from your signature links.

Truly great work.  Beautiful images.

Wish you were my neighbor so we could go shoot together and so I could borrow!   ;D
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: neuroanatomist on November 06, 2012, 10:44:12 AM
neuroanatomist,

Just for fun (after reading your last post about your flash rigging) I looked at your equipment list and some images on Flickr from your signature links.

Truly great work.  Beautiful images.

Wish you were my neighbor so we could go shoot together and so I could borrow!   ;D

Any time you're in Boston...   ;)

Thanks for the compliment!

I brought up the RRS flash rig mainly because I'm just about to pull the trigger on one, along with a macro rail.  Just trying to decide on whether I want to attach the flash bracket to a lens plate for the MP-E 65mm's collar, or to a rail on the body.  Leaning toward the latter because it looks like attaching it to the lens plate will put the flash heads behind the subject at 1-2x magnifications.
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: mackguyver on November 06, 2012, 10:46:35 AM
You guys all make good points and I really have to agree with you on nearly all of them.  On the other hand, I haven't been sold on the value of the new 24-70 over my sharp copy of the old version but would like a better walk around companion to my 70-200 f/4 IS.  I have the 24 1.4, 50 1.2, etc., so I have the big apertures covered - this would do nicely for me, particularly for my landscapes and editorial work.  I hate the price, too, but have pre-ordered it so I don't get stuck waiting months and months like people did for the 24-70 II.   With my 5D MkIII, I think this lens will be just right for me.  And I agree that the macro is a ridiculous feature for just about anything other than stamps and coins.
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: RustyTheGeek on November 06, 2012, 11:04:47 AM
[
Any time you're in Boston...   ;)

Thanks for the compliment!

I brought up the RRS flash rig mainly because I'm just about to pull the trigger on one, along with a macro rail.  Just trying to decide on whether I want to attach the flash bracket to a lens plate for the MP-E 65mm's collar, or to a rail on the body.  Leaning toward the latter because it looks like attaching it to the lens plate will put the flash heads behind the subject at 1-2x magnifications.

And it occurs to me that if Canon hadn't gone totally off the deep end on pricing, most of our time would be spent discussing exactly what you have described - ideas and techniques for getting better images from our combined experiences - instead of pricing.

Better technique and creative use of equipment makes what hardware we have that much more valuable when combined with our most valuable asset, our knowledge, skill and talent.  The new stuff just makes it possibly easier after we adapt and become proficient in its use.  Until then it's just more new stuff getting in our way.
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: mackguyver on November 06, 2012, 11:15:41 AM
Found some samples (I know, I know) on the Euro site: http://www.canon-europe.com/For_Home/Product_Finder/Cameras/EF_Lenses/Standard_Zoom/EF_24-70mm_f4L_IS_USM/ (http://www.canon-europe.com/For_Home/Product_Finder/Cameras/EF_Lenses/Standard_Zoom/EF_24-70mm_f4L_IS_USM/)
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: kubelik on November 06, 2012, 11:19:23 AM
I agree that the pricing on the 24-70 f/4 L IS is pretty unpalatable.  I mean price increases are one thing, but price DOUBLINGS are another.  same goes for all the recent Canon lenses, and sort of for the cameras as well.  I know Canon keeps throwing the "the yen is expensive!" excuse out there but legitimate or not it's definitely wearing pretty thin.

however, that being said, I find it a little preposterous that this is going to drive tons of people to micro 4/3's systems.  last time I checked, the cheapest Olympus equivalent standard zoom lens would still run you $1,000 ... with variable aperture.  To get the fixed aperture one ... you're shelling out as much as you would for Canon's 24-70 f/2.8 L II.  where is the cost savings in that?  if I'm putting that much money into it, you better believe I want the biggest damn glass for my buck strapped onto a full frame sensor.
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: han_solo82 on November 06, 2012, 11:36:33 AM
PRICE RANT Ahead...   (and sorry for the length)

Come on everyone - Wake Up!  Do you really need this stuff at these prices?

Canon has lost me for quite a while until they WTFU and get past this insanity.  I am running away from these prices.  In fact, I'm considering selling a few things now, not buying more.  Unfortunately, there are thousands of fans out there that simply MUST buy all this new gear right away at whatever price is asked which will delay the return to reasonable prices for at least a year or two instead of just a few months.  If the market (enthusiasts) ran away at these prices, they would quickly drop.  But Canon expects enough enthusiasts to accept and swallow this price point to demand it and rake in cash which is a real shame.  In this case, Canon equates "Enthusiasts" to = "Suckers"Our society has become so impatient and demanding of instant gratification at any cost that most consumers have truly become sheep.  Upgrade cycles for expensive luxury items have become months, not years.  Sorry if this offends you but if it does, then think a minute about why it offends you.  Then go shoot some pictures in a 3rd World Country or even just a poor part of town.

You are spot on with most aspect but remember that the thing is new high quality lens as always had a big price tag when they come out. The 24-105 wasn't 800$ when it came out, it was 1250, which, adjusted to today's price, is about 1450$. So in 2012 for the same price, you get a smaller, better optically lens with macro capability, but lose 35mm on the long end. It's pretty much the same with the 24-70mm I vs II.

The problem with Canon as you said is that they arre doing an Apple of themself, and seem to ignore the competition right now (well not entirely considering the recent firmware update boom we saw!) but they don't have th reputation/popularity of Apple. Apple will probably sell a huge amount of Ipad mini even though the competition is better at a lower price point. I think this will not be the same with Nikon vs Canon. Canon will have a harder and harder time if they can't stay competitive.

I mean, Nikon has been selling the D600 with the excellent 24-85mm for 2600$!  And Canon is probably gonna sell the 6D with 24-70mm for 3100 if not more! Bam, again the 500$ difference, remind us of the D800 vs 5DIII (which the former seems to be destroying the latter in sale!). I think they should have introduced 2 lenses this time around, one 24-70/85mm f/4 IS without the marco thing for 800 and a updated 24-105mm f/4 IS macro for 1500$ It would have been the best of both world!

Oh and I didn't even talked about the non L prime, that's just even sadder...
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: AdamJ on November 06, 2012, 11:57:11 AM
Do remember that Canon is not your only lens option. I don't think it is any coincidence that Tamron and, especially, Sigma with the imminent roll-out of their new products, are stepping up to the plate with new lenses that compete with Canon on image quality. They can see the yawning gap developing at the sanely priced end of the market and they're filling the gap with quality products that should appeal to any Canon devotee, whether budget-limited or not.

There is another thread where the poster is asking whether to wait for the 35mm f/2 IS or go for the 35mm L. And yet, the new Sigma 35mm f/1.4 promises to be better than the Canon f/1.4 L and likely about the same price as the f/2 IS. To me it's a no-brainer but then, I don't feel wedded to Canon lenses.
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: candyman on November 06, 2012, 12:21:50 PM
In the article that DPreview published:

"....we've been told that the RRP will be $1499 / £1499.99 / €1459"

Can someone explain to me why they convert 1:1? I find it disgusting

November 6th:
Interbank typical creditcard conversion takes  + 3% on $1499 makes

1135,40 euro !
and
908,87 britisch pounds !
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: RustyTheGeek on November 06, 2012, 12:34:13 PM
Do remember that Canon is not your only lens option. .... To me it's a no-brainer but then, I don't feel wedded to Canon lenses.

AdamJ, you make a good point.  Like I said, the competition - esp for lenses, is loving it.  In my experience however, there is a significant build quality difference between Canon lenses and all the other value driven alternatives.  For most shooters, the alternatives are more than adequate.  However, for those of us who shoot outdoors and shoot a LOT on a steady basis, the build quality of Canon can't be beat.  I can wear out a Tamron in a year while a similar Canon lens will not even blink, it just keeps on working without hesitation.

My complaint over price isn't that Canon shouldn't receive a higher price for a superior product, it's that they are abusing that right and being greedy.  It's not a great way to treat those loyal to your brand.  It's a bit insulting.  But it's not all Canon's fault to reach for some easy profit if everyone is willing to hand it to them without hesitation.  I am simply urging hesitation.  My complaint extends logically to all the impatient enthusiast consumers that can't simply wait a few months to show Canon their prices are out of line.  This would bring the price down where it should have started and stop this blatant money grab in the first few months of a product release.  If everyone would simply relax and stop pre-ordering everything in sight, I think things would improve overall with regard to price and availability.  Canon would shorten their release gaps and reduce their initial prices to encourage sales.  As it stands currently, enthusiasts are buying before the products are even in stock!  Wow.  The only thing left is to pre-order when the patents are announced before production even starts.  Geez.  That would probably put CanonRumors on Canon's speed dial, now wouldn't it!?   :P
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: plutonium10 on November 06, 2012, 01:10:27 PM
plutonium10, we can only HOPE!  And FWIW, I think the 6D has great promise, esp if it was about $500 less.  That's its biggest fault.  Otherwise, the 6D may well work just fine.  For what I do and how I shoot, it may eventually replace my 5D3.  I'd love to still have what I need and get back ~$1000 some day.  No way to know until the 6d has been out for a while and can be truly compared to the other relevant bodies.  Heck, I barely know my 5D3 as of yet.  No big rush, life goes on....

Agreed, the 6D itself seems like a decent camera. It's a simple and straightforward FF body for the entry-level crowd, and a competent replacement for the 5D II, even if the AF system might be somewhat underwhelming for more advanced users. Only time and testing will tell how effective the 11-point system actually is. What I do take issue with is the price tag, which is hardly "entry-level".
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: kubelik on November 06, 2012, 01:13:42 PM
Do remember that Canon is not your only lens option. I don't think it is any coincidence that Tamron and, especially, Sigma with the imminent roll-out of their new products, are stepping up to the plate with new lenses that compete with Canon on image quality. They can see the yawning gap developing at the sanely priced end of the market and they're filling the gap with quality products that should appeal to any Canon devotee, whether budget-limited or not.

There is another thread where the poster is asking whether to wait for the 35mm f/2 IS or go for the 35mm L. And yet, the new Sigma 35mm f/1.4 promises to be better than the Canon f/1.4 L and likely about the same price as the f/2 IS. To me it's a no-brainer but then, I don't feel wedded to Canon lenses.

as the former owner of about a half a dozen Sigma lenses of all types, I have to say I'm cautiously excited.  while they sound good on paper, I'll need to see reviews and photos before I buy because of two things:

1. AF speed / accuracy
2. bokeh

both of these were lousy with the sigmas I've used in the past, across all six.  here's hoping the New Sigma look goes further than skin deep.
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: hmmm on November 06, 2012, 01:19:18 PM

30% off the $1500 MSRP will give you $1000 addition to the body only price to make it a kt, or if you use the $350 number it would be $1150 adder. 

6D kits would either be $3099 or $3249 - MSRP

5Dmk3 kits would either be $4499 or $4649 - MSRP


...and it would probably mean that the 6D + 24-105 will be a no-show, so the 6D + 24-105 @ 2899 will turn out to not be an option.   It will probably be 6D + 24-70 f4 @ 3199 only.

...  the Nikon D600 sells at BH with 24-85 today for 2596.95.

... I decided to defer my gear upgrade to the spring, so I have time to mull it over and look at reviews.   I like my prosumer Canon L glass, but now it is clear that the "prosumer" lens types are moving into professional price brackets.   That kind of defeats the whole marketing niche idea of prosumer glass.

Just another random thought: with Canon sending prices to the stratosphere, Nikon has a real opportunity to drop a FX sensor into a D5200 style body and sell it with the 24-85 for $1999.   I'd like to get that rumor started right now.   :)
   
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: AdamJ on November 06, 2012, 01:20:09 PM
Do remember that Canon is not your only lens option. .... To me it's a no-brainer but then, I don't feel wedded to Canon lenses.

AdamJ, you make a good point.  Like I said, the competition - esp for lenses, is loving it.  In my experience however, there is a significant build quality difference between Canon lenses and all the other value driven alternatives.  For most shooters, the alternatives are more than adequate.  However, for those of us who shoot outdoors and shoot a LOT on a steady basis, the build quality of Canon can't be beat.  I can wear out a Tamron in a year while a similar Canon lens will not even blink, it just keeps on working without hesitation.

With their recently announced strategy, Sigma is undergoing a sea-change from a price-driven proposition to a quality-driven proposition. I believe this is at least partly a response to the gap in the market that Canon's pricing is opening up. Sigma can develop premium products now because they know they can pitch them at the premium-but-not-inflated price level that Canon has vacated.
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: daniemare on November 06, 2012, 01:30:25 PM
In the article that DPreview published:

"....we've been told that the RRP will be $1499 / £1499.99 / €1459"

Can someone explain to me why they convert 1:1? I find it disgusting

November 6th:
Interbank typical creditcard conversion takes  + 3% on $1499 makes

1135,40 euro !
and
908,87 britisch pounds !

I agree that this is somewhat worrying.  But for starters, EU and GBP countries are on a VAT system, which means that generally their products are quotes INclusive of sales taxes, which are generally higher than in the US.  After stripping this out it would make more sense to compare, however other business costs, import duties and volumes then start to play a role.
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: stewy on November 06, 2012, 01:43:08 PM
You know what, I may just abandon my 24-105 for this lens. Of course, I'll have to try it before I buy it, and I won't be buying it right away. I'll wait for now. The high price means that there's no rush.
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: albron00 on November 06, 2012, 01:48:48 PM
Hey! EF 35mm f/2 IS comes with lens hood! WOW!
At leas we know now where this price comes from...
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: neuroanatomist on November 06, 2012, 01:55:23 PM
Hey! EF 35mm f/2 IS comes with lens hood! WOW!
At leas we know now where this price comes from...

On what are you basing that statement?  If it's the B&H 'what's in the box' list, I'd reserve judgement - I think that's an error.  If you look at 'more images' you'll see the picture of the hood is the EW-83L, the hood for the 24-70/4L IS.  A hood with an 83mm diameter at the bayonet mount isn't going fit on a lens with a specified maximum diameter of 77.9mm.  Most likely, someone setting up the B&H webpage did the 24-70/4L IS first, then just copied and pasted. 

But if you're source is something more official, please share!
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: RustyTheGeek on November 06, 2012, 02:12:56 PM
Do remember that Canon is not your only lens option. .... To me it's a no-brainer but then, I don't feel wedded to Canon lenses.

AdamJ, you make a good point.  Like I said, the competition - esp for lenses, is loving it.

With their recently announced strategy, Sigma is undergoing a sea-change from a price-driven proposition to a quality-driven proposition. I believe this is at least partly a response to the gap in the market that Canon's pricing is opening up. Sigma can develop premium products now because they know they can pitch them at the premium-but-not-inflated price level that Canon has vacated.

This is a very interesting observation Adam.  Canon is creating a price gap vacuum that will encourage a higher quality alternative to fill it at a previously acceptable price point (but probably still slightly less).  And if the alternative is good and receives rave reviews, it will succeed.  The fickle enthusiasts will flock in droves.  Hell, I might even be one of them.  If I can have a quality lens for half the price of the Canon L, I can afford to even replace it if I wear it out and still come out ahead.  Time will tell!!
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: albron00 on November 06, 2012, 03:49:41 PM
"What's in the box" was my source.
Adorama has same description...
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: neuroanatomist on November 06, 2012, 04:13:18 PM
"What's in the box" was my source.
Adorama has same description...

Actually, Adorama lists "Lens Hood EW-72" which is plausible.  Here's to hoping Canon will finally start including hoods with their non-L lenses!
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: Gothmoth on November 06, 2012, 04:21:16 PM
With their recently announced strategy, Sigma is undergoing a sea-change from a price-driven proposition to a quality-driven proposition. I believe this is at least partly a response to the gap in the market that Canon's pricing is opening up. Sigma can develop premium products now because they know they can pitch them at the premium-but-not-inflated price level that Canon has vacated.

i hope so!

i really want the new sigma 35mm f1.4 to be a winner.
can´t wait to test it.
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: Etienne on November 06, 2012, 05:44:52 PM
Hey! EF 35mm f/2 IS comes with lens hood! WOW!
At leas we know now where this price comes from...

B&H also says that it has the new hybrid IS system ... which should be really good for video
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: EchoLocation on November 06, 2012, 06:42:42 PM
Do remember that Canon is not your only lens option. .... To me it's a no-brainer but then, I don't feel wedded to Canon lenses.

AdamJ, you make a good point.  Like I said, the competition - esp for lenses, is loving it.

With their recently announced strategy, Sigma is undergoing a sea-change from a price-driven proposition to a quality-driven proposition. I believe this is at least partly a response to the gap in the market that Canon's pricing is opening up. Sigma can develop premium products now because they know they can pitch them at the premium-but-not-inflated price level that Canon has vacated.

This is a very interesting observation Adam.  Canon is creating a price gap vacuum that will encourage a higher quality alternative to fill it at a previously acceptable price point (but probably still slightly less).  And if the alternative is good and receives rave reviews, it will succeed.  The fickle enthusiasts will flock in droves.  Hell, I might even be one of them.  If I can have a quality lens for half the price of the Canon L, I can afford to even replace it if I wear it out and still come out ahead.  Time will tell!!
Don't be shy about Sigma.... I have the 50mm 1.4 and the thing takes fabulous pictures. They are sharp, and the bokeh is super creamy! Additionally, it's built like a tank and has a very professional look and feel. I would highly recommend this lens, especially if you have a camera with AFMA(for obvious reasons.)
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: Stewbyyy on November 06, 2012, 08:16:54 PM
I was really hoping the 35 F/2 would be quite affordable... what was I thinking.

Well, Sigma still have my trust. Plus their 35 1.4 looks nicer :D
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: kevl on November 06, 2012, 08:46:06 PM
I'm not overly happy with my Sigma 24-70 IF EX DG APO because it takes a maximum micro adjustment of +20 to get it in focus (and it is still slightly out, if I could adjust it to +21 it would be perfect). Yet if Sigma starts releasing weather sealed excellent lenses at prices that match the previous generation of Canon L glass then I'll be buying their products instead of this new batch of Canon lenses. I need a few more lenses to fill out what I want to do professionally, so I'm in the market with a reason to buy.
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: mrsfotografie on November 07, 2012, 02:02:39 AM
In all seriousness, a lot of people here treat MSRP like it's built in stone. Anyone that can't get a 5DmkIII for around $2900 with a light amount of work/patience isn't trying very hard, so let's stop pretending like these aren't going to be bundled/adjusted.


2900 euro.... and is it worth 600 euro more then the D800? ..... imho not.

850 euro (you know what that is in dollar?) for a 35mm f2.... pffhhh.
and that´s a preorder price i saw.

sigma here i come!!

Canon has great marketing, they will sell more third party lenses this year!  8)
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: Etienne on November 07, 2012, 07:00:26 AM
I was really hoping the 35 F/2 would be quite affordable... what was I thinking.

Well, Sigma still have my trust. Plus their 35 1.4 looks nicer :D

Both lenses look attractive to me. The Canon is small and light, has close focus and IS.
The Sigma is very big, but may produce better IQ.

I always like to save $$$, but they both look interesting to me.
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: roguewave on November 07, 2012, 09:21:35 AM
I was really hoping the 35 F/2 would be quite affordable... what was I thinking.

Well, Sigma still have my trust. Plus their 35 1.4 looks nicer :D

Sigma has just announced the price of their 35 1.4: $899. For about the same price as Canon's 35 f2, on a wide prime I personally prefer the extra stop than IS. Can't wait to see IQ comparisons (and hope Sigma has no AF issues).
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: Ellen Schmidtee on November 07, 2012, 09:24:06 AM
I know Canon keeps throwing the "the yen is expensive!" excuse out there but legitimate or not it's definitely wearing pretty thin.

The Yen is as high for the 35mm f/2 @ $310 as it is for the 35mm f/2 IS USM @ $850.

I think the best example of Canon shooting itself in the foot is killing the EF 15mm f/2.8 in favour of the EF 8-15mm f/4 L. If I had to buy a fisheye today, I would buy the Sigma 15mm f/2.8 because of price (~1/3), extra f-stop, and DxO support (e.g. defishing).
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: PerfectSavage on November 08, 2012, 11:58:24 AM
Guess I'll have to wait and see the MTF and reviews on this one. The hybrid IS is nice, as is the near 1:1 macro, but for $1500 it'll have to improve both resolution and distortion over the 24-105 to sell well.

Or the 24-105 will soon cease to appear on price lists and will be withdrawn from the market place.

I've always considered the 24-105 a "pseudo-L" kit lens with OK not great IQ, not on par with the 16-35, 17-40 or even 24-70 L (version I let alone II) lenses...am I missing a great lens for travel/touring here?
Title: Re: EF 24-70 f/4L IS & EF 35 f/2 IS Preorders
Post by: PerfectSavage on November 08, 2012, 12:35:35 PM
Do remember that Canon is not your only lens option. .... To me it's a no-brainer but then, I don't feel wedded to Canon lenses.

AdamJ, you make a good point.  Like I said, the competition - esp for lenses, is loving it.

With their recently announced strategy, Sigma is undergoing a sea-change from a price-driven proposition to a quality-driven proposition. I believe this is at least partly a response to the gap in the market that Canon's pricing is opening up. Sigma can develop premium products now because they know they can pitch them at the premium-but-not-inflated price level that Canon has vacated.

This is a very interesting observation Adam.  Canon is creating a price gap vacuum that will encourage a higher quality alternative to fill it at a previously acceptable price point (but probably still slightly less).  And if the alternative is good and receives rave reviews, it will succeed.  The fickle enthusiasts will flock in droves.  Hell, I might even be one of them.  If I can have a quality lens for half the price of the Canon L, I can afford to even replace it if I wear it out and still come out ahead.  Time will tell!!
Don't be shy about Sigma.... I have the 50mm 1.4 and the thing takes fabulous pictures. They are sharp, and the bokeh is super creamy! Additionally, it's built like a tank and has a very professional look and feel. I would highly recommend this lens, especially if you have a camera with AFMA(for obvious reasons.)

Great observations.  Also, given we are in a down economy - ESPECIALLY in Europe - it doesn't make sense to focus on mid-market or prosumer lenses for Canon or even Sigma at this point.  I also don't think Canon's manufacturing and supply chain has recovered fully from the earthquake.  In a down economy products are going to be sold at lower volumes so therefore higher margins must exist to justify the R&D and total cost of sales.  So the two influencers (economy and earthquake) combine to focus on lower volume/higher margin products until both recover fully.  So the focus will be on professionals, wedding shooters, event/sport shooters, etc. who make their living shooting and can therefore invest in new bodies, glass that outperform previous versions at a premium price; arguably these pros have to upgrade to stay competitive in their fields - do more with less (or the same with less etc).  I thought the 6D was a perfect example...a body at high margin for the affluent prosumer/enthusiast who wants a FF camera and can afford it; OR a great B/C cam for the wedding/event shooter instead of another 5D/1D series body.  The economy is also why the 7D II is being held back; it's not going to appeal to FF pros (though it's perfectly capable of pro images) and those 7D lovers that aren't pros making their living (not money on the side, rather their livelihood) from their images can't afford to replace a perfectly good 7D camera right now just for some better ISO performance and other features etc.  The EOS M is a late launch in a different market entirely but will prevent erosion there for Canon, total stop-gap and wait and see what happens in the mirrorless space effort, Canon waited as long as they could here.