canon rumors FORUM

Rumors => EOS Bodies => Topic started by: poias on June 07, 2012, 01:00:16 AM

Title: Different tools for different trades
Post by: poias on June 07, 2012, 01:00:16 AM
Let's all take a deep breath and accept that some camera manufacturers have great sensors, while some manufacturers have great JPG engines. Let's all also accept that some camera manufacturers show progress by having high megapixel and high ISO cameras in one body, while some manufacturers have great JPG engines.

It is just a matter of taste and style. Some manufacturers introduce a new high megapixel body with 50% more resolution with price cut by 3-times from its previous high megapixel body, while some manufacturers have great JPG engines.

Different tools for different trades. What matters is how we use the tool.
Title: Re: Different tools for different trades
Post by: wickidwombat on June 07, 2012, 01:01:53 AM
which camera has a great jpg engine?  ???
Title: Re: Different tools for different trades
Post by: briansquibb on June 07, 2012, 01:38:09 AM
Let's all take a deep breath and accept that some camera manufacturers have great sensors, while some manufacturers have great JPG engines. Let's all also accept that some camera manufacturers show progress by having high megapixel and high ISO cameras in one body, while some manufacturers have great JPG engines.

It is just a matter of taste and style. Some manufacturers introduce a new high megapixel body with 50% more resolution with price cut by 3-times from its previous high megapixel body, while some manufacturers have great JPG engines.

Different tools for different trades. What matters is how we use the tool.

Absolutely true
Title: Re: Different tools for different trades
Post by: pwp on June 07, 2012, 02:55:15 AM
You could end up with a camera version of this...a Canikonybladasonic?

It's a car created by an insurance company.
https://carcreation.nrma.com.au/carBuild.html

PW
Title: Re: Different tools for different trades
Post by: neuroanatomist on June 07, 2012, 06:50:47 AM
Let's all take a deep breath and accept that some camera manufacturers have great sensors, while some manufacturers have great JPG engines. Let's all also accept that some camera manufacturers show progress by having high megapixel and high ISO cameras in one body, while some manufacturers have great JPG engines.

It is just a matter of taste and style. Some manufacturers introduce a new high megapixel body with 50% more resolution with price cut by 3-times from its previous high megapixel body, while some manufacturers have great JPG engines.

Different tools for different trades. What matters is how we use the tool.

The last line is true.  As for the rest of your post...

(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTYXgfOwjit5v_ddmpaqrIHp7ZPwzbaTLJMvYSJFRt6lVn6QCAJvHlH7zH8)
Title: Re: Different tools for different trades
Post by: iaind on June 07, 2012, 02:25:11 PM
It reminds me of an advert for a music system in the 70's

It shows a put together car comprising Ford Corsair, Citroen 2cv and others with a Rolls Royce radiator.
Title: Re: Different tools for different trades
Post by: V8Beast on June 07, 2012, 04:10:06 PM
What are these jpeg engines you speak of? I prefer twin-turbo 2,500 horsepower big-block V-8s :)

(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m567/BBNotch/Stuff/_L3C0741.jpg)

Now maybe if my 5D3 had more DR I'd make enough extra money to finish this damn thing ;D
Title: Re: Different tools for different trades
Post by: davidson on June 07, 2012, 05:08:39 PM
Seriously?? was this post really necessary?? such a waste of time trying to incite a flame war over a topic that should have burnt out by now....

-1
Title: Re: Different tools for different trades
Post by: aznable on June 07, 2012, 05:15:55 PM
Let's all take a deep breath and accept that some camera manufacturers have great sensors, while some manufacturers have great JPG engines. Let's all also accept that some camera manufacturers show progress by having high megapixel and high ISO cameras in one body, while some manufacturers have great JPG engines.

It is just a matter of taste and style.

yap and some camera manufacters are dependant for their sensors from a collapsing company and their 3000$ cameras are slower than 600$ cameras of competition :D
Title: Re: Different tools for different trades
Post by: cliffwang on June 07, 2012, 05:34:40 PM
Seriously?? was this post really necessary?? such a waste of time trying to incite a flame war over a topic that should have burnt out by now....

-1

No matter this topic will incite a flame war or not, people have their right to post whatever they want to post.  If you see something you don't agree, you can reply to them or just ignore them.
Title: Re: Different tools for different trades
Post by: cliffwang on June 07, 2012, 05:36:03 PM
Let's all take a deep breath and accept that some camera manufacturers have great sensors, while some manufacturers have great JPG engines. Let's all also accept that some camera manufacturers show progress by having high megapixel and high ISO cameras in one body, while some manufacturers have great JPG engines.

It is just a matter of taste and style.

yap and some camera manufacters are dependant for their sensors from a collapsing company and their 3000$ cameras are slower than 600$ cameras of competition :D

Don't for get 5D3 is slower than my 7D.
Title: Re: Different tools for different trades
Post by: canon816 on June 07, 2012, 05:54:46 PM
Seriously?? was this post really necessary?? such a waste of time trying to incite a flame war over a topic that should have burnt out by now....

-1

+1
Title: Re: Different tools for different trades
Post by: aznable on June 07, 2012, 06:17:10 PM
Don't for get 5D3 is slower than my 7D.

yap and it's slower than my 50D...we won ;)

i miss the times when canonians was screaming for every bump of megapixels in newly announced sensors…now they are screaming for the opposite; just ridicolous
(but i get a lot of fun)
Title: Re: Different tools for different trades
Post by: wickidwombat on June 07, 2012, 06:19:19 PM
What are these jpeg engines you speak of? I prefer twin-turbo 2,500 horsepower big-block V-8s :)

(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m567/BBNotch/Stuff/_L3C0741.jpg)

Now maybe if my 5D3 had more DR I'd make enough extra money to finish this damn thing ;D

now no one can critiscise THAT for being soft ;)
Title: Re: Different tools for different trades
Post by: cliffwang on June 07, 2012, 06:52:56 PM

yap and it's slower than my 50D...we won ;)

i miss the times when canonians was screaming for every bump of megapixels in newly announced sensors…now they are screaming for the opposite; just ridicolous
(but i get a lot of fun)
Why ridiculous?  When people complain bad 50mm F/1.4 and 24-70mm L, many people still enjoy their 50mm F/1.4 and 24-70mm L.  10% of people got bad copies will make BIG BIG noise.  That will make you feel most of those lenses are bad.  My 24-70mm is soft, but two of my friends' 24-70mm are very sharp.
Now you can see many Canon users want high MP cameras after Canon is testing the high MP camera or I should say after Nikon release 36MP camera.
Everyone is different.  They have different needs.  Sometimes people keep silent doesn't meant they agree or disagree.  Dose that make sense?
Title: Re: Different tools for different trades
Post by: jrista on June 07, 2012, 06:55:53 PM
What are these jpeg engines you speak of? I prefer twin-turbo 2,500 horsepower big-block V-8s :)

(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m567/BBNotch/Stuff/_L3C0741.jpg)

Now maybe if my 5D3 had more DR I'd make enough extra money to finish this damn thing ;D

Badass. That puppy must, what, burn through 22.3 gallons of pixels a minute? ;)
Title: Re: Different tools for different trades
Post by: aznable on June 08, 2012, 03:34:29 AM
Why ridiculous?  When people complain bad 50mm F/1.4 and 24-70mm L, many people still enjoy their 50mm F/1.4 and 24-70mm L.  10% of people got bad copies will make BIG BIG noise.  That will make you feel most of those lenses are bad.  My 24-70mm is soft, but two of my friends' 24-70mm are very sharp.
Now you can see many Canon users want high MP cameras after Canon is testing the high MP camera or I should say after Nikon release 36MP camera.
Everyone is different.  They have different needs.  Sometimes people keep silent doesn't meant they agree or disagree.  Dose that make sense?

it's ridicolous because are the same people that complained about the bump in mpix that now area complaing about too few mpix.

in the past the word was that 12mpix is enough but now 22mpix stinks..lol.

anyway i was thinking about change the 50D with another camera mainly to improve the AF performance and i am undecided between 1dmk3 and 7D (shooted some sport and airshow recently)... can you give me some advice
Title: Re: Different tools for different trades
Post by: cliffwang on June 11, 2012, 02:29:09 PM
it's ridicolous because are the same people that complained about the bump in mpix that now area complaing about too few mpix.

in the past the word was that 12mpix is enough but now 22mpix stinks..lol.

anyway i was thinking about change the 50D with another camera mainly to improve the AF performance and i am undecided between 1dmk3 and 7D (shooted some sport and airshow recently)... can you give me some advice

Everyone is different.  I can tell you I love 22MP on my 5D2 more than 18MP on my 7D.  More MP can have more details.  Again everyone is different.  Nothing wrong with people like low MP with high ISO or high MP with ISO 800-.
I don't have 1D3, so I cannot tell you if how good 1D3 is.  I just sold my 7D because I see the rumor Canon is going to have HIGH MP low price FF.  Now it time to clean some of my gears.  However, 7D is great.  When I taking photos for my son with 70-200mm in high FPS mode, I think about 60-70% of focus is accurate.  Of cause he is still not running very fast, but still fast.  That's very difficult to take my son's photo outside with my 5D2.
Are you really consider 7D?  Why don't you wait for 70D or 7D2?
Title: Re: Different tools for different trades
Post by: neuroanatomist on June 11, 2012, 02:32:46 PM
I just sold my 7D because I see the rumor Canon is going to have HIGH MP low price FF.

You made a decision like that based on a rumor?   :o   I hope that you sold it because you no longer use/need it - CR rumors, especially for things like a high MP / low price FF body (an oxymoron for Canon, I think), are not a good guide for buying/selling decisions...
Title: Re: Different tools for different trades
Post by: jrista on June 11, 2012, 02:53:33 PM
I just sold my 7D because I see the rumor Canon is going to have HIGH MP low price FF.

You made a decision like that based on a rumor?   :o   I hope that you sold it because you no longer use/need it - CR rumors, especially for things like a high MP / low price FF body (an oxymoron for Canon, I think), are not a good guide for buying/selling decisions...

I think you just got trolled...  :P
Title: Re: Different tools for different trades
Post by: cliffwang on June 11, 2012, 03:37:06 PM
You made a decision like that based on a rumor?   :o   I hope that you sold it because you no longer use/need it - CR rumors, especially for things like a high MP / low price FF body (an oxymoron for Canon, I think), are not a good guide for buying/selling decisions...
People don't make decision by only one reason.  CR is just one reason.  I recently just want to keep my gears as simple as possible.  I found 80% of time I use my 5D2, not 7D.  That makes me decided to clean up my APS-C system.  Of cause, I missed AF and FPS on 7D.

I think you just got trolled...  :P
neuroanatomist didn't get trolled.  Everyone can post his/her idea here.
Title: Re: Different tools for different trades
Post by: neuroanatomist on June 11, 2012, 04:06:56 PM
I found 80% of time I use my 5D2, not 7D.  That makes me decided to clean up my APS-C system.  Of cause, I missed AF and FPS on 7D.

I probably use my 5DII closer to 90% of the time.  But, that ~10% is shooting birds/wildlife, and for that the 5DII is just not up to snuff.  I'll be keeping my 7D even after swapping the 5DII for a 1D X (in fact, keeping it until there's a 7DII).
Title: Re: Different tools for different trades
Post by: cliffwang on June 11, 2012, 04:18:25 PM
I probably use my 5DII closer to 90% of the time.  But, that ~10% is shooting birds/wildlife, and for that the 5DII is just not up to snuff.  I'll be keeping my 7D even after swapping the 5DII for a 1D X (in fact, keeping it until there's a 7DII).
Do you really need 7D if you have 1DX?  1DX has better FPS and AF system.  You can simply use 1.4x or 2x TC for 1DX, right?
Title: Re: Different tools for different trades
Post by: neuroanatomist on June 11, 2012, 04:27:40 PM
I probably use my 5DII closer to 90% of the time.  But, that ~10% is shooting birds/wildlife, and for that the 5DII is just not up to snuff.  I'll be keeping my 7D even after swapping the 5DII for a 1D X (in fact, keeping it until there's a 7DII).
Do you really need 7D if you have 1DX?  1DX has better FPS and AF system.  You can simply use 1.4x or 2x TC for 1DX, right?

I use my 7D mainly (almost exclusively, now) with the 100-400mm.  Since, unilke previous 1-series bodies, the 1D X cannot AF at f/8, a 1.4x TC with the 100-400mm is out.  The 500mm f/4L IS II is next on the list after the 1D X...but at that point with a 1.4x, that's getting me 700mm vs. 640mm equivalent with the 7D @ 400mm - and I'm already cropping the 7D image.  When you're shooting small birds, there's no such thing as too long a lens.  If there were a m4/3 camera with good enough IQ and response rate, and a compatible 400mm lens, I'd consider it.
Title: Re: Different tools for different trades
Post by: jrista on June 11, 2012, 04:45:44 PM
I probably use my 5DII closer to 90% of the time.  But, that ~10% is shooting birds/wildlife, and for that the 5DII is just not up to snuff.  I'll be keeping my 7D even after swapping the 5DII for a 1D X (in fact, keeping it until there's a 7DII).
Do you really need 7D if you have 1DX?  1DX has better FPS and AF system.  You can simply use 1.4x or 2x TC for 1DX, right?

I use my 7D mainly (almost exclusively, now) with the 100-400mm.  Since, unilke previous 1-series bodies, the 1D X cannot AF at f/8, a 1.4x TC with the 100-400mm is out.  The 500mm f/4L IS II is next on the list after the 1D X...but at that point with a 1.4x, that's getting me 700mm vs. 640mm equivalent with the 7D @ 400mm - and I'm already cropping the 7D image.  When you're shooting small birds, there's no such thing as too long a lens.  If there were a m4/3 camera with good enough IQ and response rate, and a compatible 400mm lens, I'd consider it.

Couldn't agree with all that more! The value of a cropped sensor can't be forgotten when it comes to shooting distant action or small subjects in motion...and in that respect, the 7D is king!

There is a HUGE cost to getting the same kind of reach with FF, TC's and Supertelephoto lenses, to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars. If you try to get the same reach with a 1D X, 1.4x TC and a 500mm L II supertele as you get with the 7D and the 100-400mm lens, you would be $18,000 in the hole...and that only gets you 60mm more and some extra sharpness (which, granted, is nice...but oh so unbelievably costly!) The 7D+100-400 is about $2700-$3000 at current prices.
Title: Re: Different tools for different trades
Post by: aznable on June 11, 2012, 04:50:18 PM
[cut]
Are you really consider 7D?  Why don't you wait for 70D or 7D2?

if i find a good deal yes...i can sell my 450D and 50D and get a used 7D basically for free; if 70D or 7DMKII will turn out as very good cameras, i can sell the 7D and change again...butit's just an idea.

10x for the advice….i think i will pass on 1d, too expensive and the 7d suit better my needs
Title: Re: Different tools for different trades
Post by: briansquibb on June 11, 2012, 05:33:03 PM
Couldn't agree with all that more! The value of a cropped sensor can't be forgotten when it comes to shooting distant action or small subjects in motion...and in that respect, the 7D is king!

There is a HUGE cost to getting the same kind of reach with FF, TC's and Supertelephoto lenses, to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars. If you try to get the same reach with a 1D X, 1.4x TC and a 500mm L II supertele as you get with the 7D and the 100-400mm lens, you would be $18,000 in the hole...and that only gets you 60mm more and some extra sharpness (which, granted, is nice...but oh so unbelievably costly!) The 7D+100-400 is about $2700-$3000 at current prices.

or better still a 1D4 @f/8 significantly outreaches the 7D

Try a 1D4 with 600 + 2x for starters .....
Title: Re: Different tools for different trades
Post by: cliffwang on June 11, 2012, 05:43:31 PM
I use my 7D mainly (almost exclusively, now) with the 100-400mm.  Since, unilke previous 1-series bodies, the 1D X cannot AF at f/8, a 1.4x TC with the 100-400mm is out.  The 500mm f/4L IS II is next on the list after the 1D X...but at that point with a 1.4x, that's getting me 700mm vs. 640mm equivalent with the 7D @ 400mm - and I'm already cropping the 7D image.  When you're shooting small birds, there's no such thing as too long a lens.  If there were a m4/3 camera with good enough IQ and response rate, and a compatible 400mm lens, I'd consider it.
I rarely shoot wildlife, so I haven't think that far.  That's good to know.  By the way, I think Canon will update its firmware to fix the F/8 AF issue.  It should be easy to fix.
Title: Re: Different tools for different trades
Post by: Albi86 on June 11, 2012, 05:50:07 PM

I rarely shoot wildlife, so I haven't think that far.  That's good to know.  By the way, I think Canon will update its firmware to fix the F/8 AF issue.  It should be easy to fix.

I don't know if it's as much an issue as a reason to make you buy a 1D body :)
Title: Re: Different tools for different trades
Post by: cliffwang on June 11, 2012, 06:01:08 PM
I don't know if it's as much an issue as a reason to make you buy a 1D body :)
The ISSUE is I have no budget for it.
Title: Re: Different tools for different trades
Post by: neuroanatomist on June 11, 2012, 06:29:23 PM
By the way, I think Canon will update its firmware to fix the F/8 AF issue.  It should be easy to fix.

Doubtful.  The 1-series bodies with an f/8 center point have a different hardware design on the AF sensor for that point, something not built into the 1D X AF sensor.  So, a firmware 'fix' would be analogous to taping the contacts on a 1.4x TC with an f/5.6 lens on a 7D or 5DIII - i.e. it would work ok in some conditions, poorly in others, and likely not meet the reliability standards of a 1-series body. I'm not counting on a firmware fix for this issue...
Title: Re: Different tools for different trades
Post by: jrista on June 11, 2012, 07:28:35 PM
Couldn't agree with all that more! The value of a cropped sensor can't be forgotten when it comes to shooting distant action or small subjects in motion...and in that respect, the 7D is king!

There is a HUGE cost to getting the same kind of reach with FF, TC's and Supertelephoto lenses, to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars. If you try to get the same reach with a 1D X, 1.4x TC and a 500mm L II supertele as you get with the 7D and the 100-400mm lens, you would be $18,000 in the hole...and that only gets you 60mm more and some extra sharpness (which, granted, is nice...but oh so unbelievably costly!) The 7D+100-400 is about $2700-$3000 at current prices.

or better still a 1D4 @f/8 significantly outreaches the 7D

Try a 1D4 with 600 + 2x for starters .....


Sure, but I think you missed my point...your spending over $18,000 for that 1D IV, 600 f/4, and a 2x TC. If you need 1560mm, then your probably in a position where such cost is easily budgeted...but on the flip side, you could get 1920mm out of the same lens and TC if you used a 7D instead of a 1D IV. All things being equal, for birds/bif, I'd still take the 7D (or, preferably, a 7D II with much-improved APS-C sensor with slightly more MP, higher max ISO, and less noise overall.)
Title: Re: Different tools for different trades
Post by: briansquibb on June 12, 2012, 03:26:24 AM
or better still a 1D4 @f/8 significantly outreaches the 7D

Try a 1D4 with 600 + 2x for starters .....


Sure, but I think you missed my point...your spending over $18,000 for that 1D IV, 600 f/4, and a 2x TC. If you need 1560mm, then your probably in a position where such cost is easily budgeted...but on the flip side, you could get 1920mm out of the same lens and TC if you used a 7D instead of a 1D IV.

I guess the 7D has AF at f/8 then?

Well mine doesn't - so the 7D would be limited to 1344 (1.4x)

As for the money - that is what is costs for that new rig but there is no correlation between need and budget. I did it on the cheap buying a used 1D4, and used 2x II and a used 600 f/4 mk1. Total cost was way lower that the one you quoted

I understood your point was that the 7D was king - and the cheap option was the 7D with a f/5.6 @about 400mm? It may be good value for money but with less than half the reach it isn't exactly going to do the same job. Rather like saying that a 7D with a 50 f/1.8 is a good alternative to a 5DIII with a 200 f/2
Title: Re: Different tools for different trades
Post by: aznable on June 12, 2012, 03:58:46 AM
I don't know if it's as much an issue as a reason to make you buy a 1D body :)
The ISSUE is I have no budget for it.

that's the basic issue for a lot of people ;)
Title: Re: Different tools for different trades
Post by: briansquibb on June 12, 2012, 04:07:20 AM
I don't know if it's as much an issue as a reason to make you buy a 1D body :)
The ISSUE is I have no budget for it.

that's the basic issue for a lot of people ;)

I lust after a lot of things well beyond my budget  :(
Title: Re: Different tools for different trades
Post by: akiskev on June 12, 2012, 05:21:30 AM
I probably use my 5DII closer to 90% of the time.  But, that ~10% is shooting birds/wildlife, and for that the 5DII is just not up to snuff.  I'll be keeping my 7D even after swapping the 5DII for a 1D X (in fact, keeping it until there's a 7DII).
Do you really need 7D if you have 1DX?  1DX has better FPS and AF system.  You can simply use 1.4x or 2x TC for 1DX, right?

I use my 7D mainly (almost exclusively, now) with the 100-400mm.  Since, unilke previous 1-series bodies, the 1D X cannot AF at f/8, a 1.4x TC with the 100-400mm is out.  The 500mm f/4L IS II is next on the list after the 1D X...but at that point with a 1.4x, that's getting me 700mm vs. 640mm equivalent with the 7D @ 400mm - and I'm already cropping the 7D image.  When you're shooting small birds, there's no such thing as too long a lens.  If there were a m4/3 camera with good enough IQ and response rate, and a compatible 400mm lens, I'd consider it.
I tried this combo a lot of times on a 5d2 and AF was ridiculously slow. So I always end up using MF. With 7d is AF speed usable?
Title: Re: Different tools for different trades
Post by: aznable on June 12, 2012, 05:49:48 AM
I don't know if it's as much an issue as a reason to make you buy a 1D body :)
The ISSUE is I have no budget for it.

that's the basic issue for a lot of people ;)

I lust after a lot of things well beyond my budget  :(

having an unlimited budget would be really boring, and probably would not exists all those models of camera/lenses ;)