canon rumors FORUM

Rumors => EOS Bodies => Topic started by: Canon Rumors on March 12, 2011, 11:30:35 AM

Title: 1Ds4 & 5D3 Timetable [CR1]
Post by: Canon Rumors on March 12, 2011, 11:30:35 AM

A new timetable?

Comments from Australia [NL].



I will note, I have not yet heard from the “2012 for the 1Ds replacement” folks in a while.


cr


Title: Re: 1Ds4 & 5D3 Timetable [CR1]
Post by: Chewy734 on March 12, 2011, 11:56:57 AM
While on the other end...  Nikon is rumored to be advancing their technology at a much faster pace and may release a mirrorless system in just a few weeks.

Honestly, I don't see why Canon just doesn't announce the 1Ds4 and/or 5D3 soon, and then tell people the release date will be sometime this Fall/Winter?  At least we'll have some concrete information that way.
Title: Re: 1Ds4 & 5D3 Timetable [CR1]
Post by: AJ on March 12, 2011, 01:13:43 PM
The EF-S line of lenses are not high on the list of priorities at Canon.
“L” lenses and the development of them are whats needed to get the most out of the 18mp crop sensors.


Hehehe...  Sounds like a line from a full-frame enthusiast and L-snob  Someone who obviously doesn't understand business.  Canon makes good money on their crop gear.  Furthermore, if you want to get the most out of your 18 mpix crop sensor then EF-S lenses like 17-55 and 15-85 are the way to go.  Why struggle with full-frame ultrawides thast have limited focal length range and/or aperture.

This is CR -10, folks.
Title: Re: 1Ds4 & 5D3 Timetable [CR1]
Post by: traveller on March 12, 2011, 02:00:32 PM
Canon has been pretty watertight recently, with few leaks of any substance until days before the official announcement.  I'm guessing that when the 1Ds Mk4 is annouced it wil all start to happen very quickly. 

It's a shame that EF-S has been relagated as there are still so many holes in the lineup.  Apart from the 17-55mm f/2.8, the 60mm f/2.8 Macro and the recent 15-85mm f/3.5-5.6, there are no other lenses for serious users.  I'd have to agree that what Thom Hogan says about the Nikon DX lineup (http://www.bythom.com/state2010.htm) applies equally (if not more so) to Canon.  Yes, there are FF lenses that fill some gaps, but many of these are old and a bit sub-par (e.g. the non-L primes in the 28-35mm range) and using others leaves you with a camera bag that is heavy, expensive and a bit long for many people (e.g. the 70-200mm Ls).  I guess that there are third party options, but a company with Canon's market share shouldn't need to rely on Sigma and Tamron to prop up its lens lineup. 

So, lets give Canon a break and write EF-S off for a year (as it's a full frame camera refresh year); may I suggeat that in 2012-3, Canon fill out some of my wishlist:

Budget - Sub $250:
EF-S 30mm f/1.8 USM (priced at under $250 -Nikon can do it, why can't Canon?!)


Mid-range - $250-$499
EF-S 15mm f/2.8 USM (wide angle was what EF-S was designed for)
EF-S 22mm f/2 USM (nice compact lens/body combo for street photographers)
EF-S 50-300mm f/4-5.6 IS USM (EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 USM IS replacement for those who can't afford the L).   

High-end - over $500
EF-S 50-135mm f/2.8 IS USM WS (weathersealed ala Pentax -to complement the 7D Mk2)
EF-S 15-50mm f/2.8 IS USM WS (weathersealed to complement the 7D Mk2)
EF-S 8-15mm f/? (not sure for f/4 size/weight, or f/2.8 for available light?)

In addition, I think that Canon should re-focus its crop sensor lineup to offer smaller cameras to go with these smaller lenses; the 7D is great, but (IMHO) it would be even better if it were the size of the Pentax K5. 

Would this mean that some people might stay APS-C rather than go full frame? Possibly, but I think that this would be more than offset by the people who would choose the Canon system and those that are currently forced to buy third party lenses. 
Title: Re: 1Ds4 & 5D3 Timetable [CR1]
Post by: c.d.embrey on March 12, 2011, 02:51:50 PM
The EF-S line of lenses are not high on the list of priorities at Canon.
“L” lenses and the development of them are whats needed to get the most out of the 18mp crop sensors.


Hehehe...  Sounds like a line from a full-frame enthusiast and L-snob  Someone who obviously doesn't understand business.  Canon makes good money on their crop gear.  Furthermore, if you want to get the most out of your 18 mpix crop sensor then EF-S lenses like 17-55 and 15-85 are the way to go.  Why struggle with full-frame ultrawides thast have limited focal length range and/or aperture.

This is CR -10, folks.

The EF-S 10-22mm f3.5/4.5 is also a great lens. That and a EF 85mm f1.8 is all I use.
Title: Re: 1Ds4 & 5D3 Timetable [CR1]
Post by: c.d.embrey on March 12, 2011, 02:55:21 PM
Canon has been pretty watertight recently, with few leaks of any substance until days before the official announcement.  I'm guessing that when the 1Ds Mk4 is annouced it wil all start to happen very quickly. 

It's a shame that EF-S has been relagated as there are still so many holes in the lineup.  Apart from the 17-55mm f/2.8, the 60mm f/2.8 Macro and the recent 15-85mm f/3.5-5.6, there are no other lenses for serious users.  I'd have to agree that what Thom Hogan says about the Nikon DX lineup (http://www.bythom.com/state2010.htm) applies equally (if not more so) to Canon.  Yes, there are FF lenses that fill some gaps, but many of these are old and a bit sub-par (e.g. the non-L primes in the 28-35mm range) and using others leaves you with a camera bag that is heavy, expensive and a bit long for many people (e.g. the 70-200mm Ls).  I guess that there are third party options, but a company with Canon's market share shouldn't need to rely on Sigma and Tamron to prop up its lens lineup. 

So, lets give Canon a break and write EF-S off for a year (as it's a full frame camera refresh year); may I suggeat that in 2012-3, Canon fill out some of my wishlist:

Budget - Sub $250:
EF-S 30mm f/1.8 USM (priced at under $250 -Nikon can do it, why can't Canon?!)


Mid-range - $250-$499
EF-S 15mm f/2.8 USM (wide angle was what EF-S was designed for)
EF-S 22mm f/2 USM (nice compact lens/body combo for street photographers)
EF-S 50-300mm f/4-5.6 IS USM (EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 USM IS replacement for those who can't afford the L).   

High-end - over $500
EF-S 50-135mm f/2.8 IS USM WS (weathersealed ala Pentax -to complement the 7D Mk2)
EF-S 15-50mm f/2.8 IS USM WS (weathersealed to complement the 7D Mk2)
EF-S 8-15mm f/? (not sure for f/4 size/weight, or f/2.8 for available light?)

In addition, I think that Canon should re-focus its crop sensor lineup to offer smaller cameras to go with these smaller lenses; the 7D is great, but (IMHO) it would be even better if it were the size of the Pentax K5. 

Would this mean that some people might stay APS-C rather than go full frame? Possibly, but I think that this would be more than offset by the people who would choose the Canon system and those that are currently forced to buy third party lenses.

Sign-me-up for the 15mm, 22mm and 30mm primes. That and the EF 85mm f1.8 is all I need.
Title: Re: 1Ds4 & 5D3 Timetable [CR1]
Post by: dthomasla on March 12, 2011, 03:14:05 PM
Another prediction about when the 5D3 will be announced !!   After delaying my purchase of the 5D2 for six months because of the latest prediction that the 5D3 was just a few months away I got disgusted with this "cat and mouse" game and bought the 5D2.  I couldn't be happier.   :)   The new body has given me many new challanges and taken my photography to a new level .  I have literally taken hundreds of photos that would have been impossible or mediocre on my old 40D.   I'm glad I stopped waiting for the 5D3 "ghost" to appear.
Title: Re: 1Ds4 & 5D3 Timetable [CR1]
Post by: x-vision on March 12, 2011, 05:00:44 PM
This is CR -10, folks.

+1000.

First of all, there would be no 1Ds4. That boat has sailed.
Next pro body from Canon will the 1DV - FF, high resolution, high frame rate.

Second, Canon already has EF-S updates in the pipeline.
An update of the efs-60 macro is coming with IS.
Also, Canon has patented a design for an update of the 17-55 f2.8 efs lens.
The new design is flexible and allows either making the aperture of the current 17-55 faster to f2 (yes, f2) or extending the focal range to 15-55.
Don't know what Canon will chose. Most likely marketing will push for 15-55/f2 (yes, f2).
Title: Re: 1Ds4 & 5D3 Timetable [CR1]
Post by: fultonx on March 12, 2011, 07:33:41 PM
Well, if the 1Ds Mark IV were to come out this year, it would probably be best for April/May when they are releasing their new telephoto lenses.

As an Australian, I'm paying a lot of attention to the part about price drops coming.  Their high prices here are damaging local camera shops because they can't compete with any operating offshore.  Seeing how the AUD has been relatively close to the USD for some time, this would be a positive move.
Title: Re: 1Ds4 & 5D3 Timetable [CR1]
Post by: Etienne on March 12, 2011, 11:10:39 PM
Another prediction about when the 5D3 will be announced !!   After delaying my purchase of the 5D2 for six months because of the latest prediction that the 5D3 was just a few months away I got disgusted with this "cat and mouse" game and bought the 5D2.  I couldn't be happier.   :)   The new body has given me many new challanges and taken my photography to a new level .  I have literally taken hundreds of photos that would have been impossible or mediocre on my old 40D.   I'm glad I stopped waiting for the 5D3 "ghost" to appear.

I went through this same dilemma over a year ago. There's always going to be something better just about to be released. I don't regret getting the 5DII at all. Sure, I'd love to see the 5DIII released, and I'll get one when it is. And I'll get the 5DIV too. In the meantime I'm enjoying the 5DII immensely. I sold the 40D, and bought a 60D for backup, and it only made me even more happy that I went 5D instead of 7D. Nothing wrong with the 60D, but the 5DII produces better pictures and better video.
Title: Re: 1Ds4 & 5D3 Timetable [CR1]
Post by: WarStreet on March 13, 2011, 05:45:08 AM
This is CR -10, folks.

Agree ! Apart the fact that EF-S lenses and APS-C customers are very important for Canon, the guy is not technical at all. "“L” lenses and the development of them are whats needed to get the most out of the 18mp crop sensors."

(1) It is easier to get a better resolving ability with an EF-S lens instead an EF one when used on APS-C

(2) "Get the most out of the 18mp crop sensors" is just non sense.  Resolution will improve when you improve either the sensor or lens. So, a better lens will improve the end result resolution on both a 12mp and an 18mp sensors. On the other hand, an 18mp sensor will improve the end result resolution compared to a 12mp sensor, even when used on an old low resolution lens. So the 18mp sensors resolution with the current lenses, are ahead than the lower mp sensors and don't need any extra help, while an improved lens is welcome for all sensors not just the 18mp ones  ;)
   
Title: Re: 1Ds4 & 5D3 Timetable [CR1]
Post by: match14 on March 13, 2011, 09:31:37 AM
The EF-S line of lenses are not high on the list of priorities at Canon.
“L” lenses and the development of them are whats needed to get the most out of the 18mp crop sensors.


Hehehe...  Sounds like a line from a full-frame enthusiast and L-snob  Someone who obviously doesn't understand business.  Canon makes good money on their crop gear.  Furthermore, if you want to get the most out of your 18 mpix crop sensor then EF-S lenses like 17-55 and 15-85 are the way to go.  Why struggle with full-frame ultrawides thast have limited focal length range and/or aperture.

This is CR -10, folks.

I agree, unless of course Canon are going to make a 15-70mm f/4L or similar, which is unlikely.
Title: Re: 1Ds4 & 5D3 Timetable [CR1]
Post by: match14 on March 13, 2011, 09:34:08 AM
EF-S 15-50mm f/2.8 IS USM WS (weathersealed to complement the 7D Mk2)

15-55mm surely?
Title: Re: 1Ds4 & 5D3 Timetable [CR1]
Post by: unfocused on March 13, 2011, 03:52:32 PM
The EF-S line of lenses are not high on the list of priorities at Canon.
“L” lenses and the development of them are whats needed to get the most out of the 18mp crop sensors.


Hehehe...  Sounds like a line from a full-frame enthusiast and L-snob  Someone who obviously doesn't understand business.  Canon makes good money on their crop gear.  Furthermore, if you want to get the most out of your 18 mpix crop sensor then EF-S lenses like 17-55 and 15-85 are the way to go.  Why struggle with full-frame ultrawides that have limited focal length range and/or aperture.

This is CR -10, folks.

I agree, unless of course Canon are going to make a 15-70mm f/4L or similar, which is unlikely.

I'm with Match and AJ on this one. The third-party manufacturers seem to be putting a heavy emphasis on developing quality lenses for crop sensor cameras. I can't see Canon ceding that market.

Actually, this statement doesn't make any sense:
Quote
“L” lenses and the development of them are whats needed to get the most out of the 18mp crop sensors.

If you need higher quality lenses to get the most out of 18mp sensors, why wouldn't you be developing and marketing these lenses? Especially since the 18mp sensor now dominates the Canon crop sensor line up. Really though, optical quality hasn't been the problem with the more recent EF-S lenses – the issue is inconsistent build quality and speed. There is definitely a market for fast, well-built lenses for crop sensor cameras.

Call it CR -10 or, more accurately, an opinion masquerading as a rumor.
Title: Re: 1Ds4 & 5D3 Timetable [CR1]
Post by: Etienne on March 13, 2011, 04:03:32 PM
Most crop cameras are sold to consumers who are reluctant to pay $1000 - $2000 or more for a lens.  That's probably why Canon seems reluctant to invest as much in EFS. That may change, but why wait when FF cameras produce better images/video and have more/better glass options. The crop cameras haven't even produced a huge weight/size savings if you use good glass (EF-S 17-55 2.8 is same size as 24-105 f4, which is the closest equivalent lens)

Whereas most pros will be the best available lens even if it's 4 times as expensive as the next best option.

I'd love a 20-24mm pancake for the 60D, but failing that, I'll take the 5DII even as a walk around.
Title: Re: 1Ds4 & 5D3 Timetable [CR1]
Post by: iwin on March 14, 2011, 01:28:23 AM
Is it safe to say that the 5dmkiii kit will come with the 24-105 f/4 lens?
Title: Re: 1Ds4 & 5D3 Timetable [CR1]
Post by: AJ on March 14, 2011, 10:52:16 AM
... FF cameras produce better images/video and have more/better glass options.

Actually you have more lens options with crop because crop cameras fit both EF and EF-S. 

As for better images, it depends how large you print.  My largest prints are 13"x19" and crop works well for that.
Title: Re: 1Ds4 & 5D3 Timetable [CR1]
Post by: kubelik on March 14, 2011, 02:54:44 PM
Is it safe to say that the 5dmkiii kit will come with the 24-105 f/4 lens?

most likely, that will be the case.  however, there's always the possibility that canon will surprise us with a new 24-120 f/4 L IS or some such lens; anything is possible, especially as the 5DIII is probably still a year away from release (different people will give you different dates, that's just my personal opinion)
Title: Re: 1Ds4 & 5D3 Timetable [CR1]
Post by: gene_can_sing on March 14, 2011, 03:23:35 PM
I seriously hope that the 5D3 is not a year away. For us video guys, we need Digic 5 now. Canon is super behind on their schedule. They missed their mark on the 1D update. Would have been 3 years last Sept. We're on a 4 year old processor, which is really long in Tech years, and frankly.... kind of embarrassing for Canon.

Everyone I know is just waiting for the 5D3. Much less interest in the 1Ds and nobody I know is buying a 5D2 right now.

So if you're reading this Canon, please release the 5D3 first and soon, before all us video guys go to Panansonic which is seriously starting to take the lead in that the DSLR video world.
Title: Re: 1Ds4 & 5D3 Timetable [CR1]
Post by: Etienne on March 15, 2011, 12:10:51 AM
... FF cameras produce better images/video and have more/better glass options.

Actually you have more lens options with crop because crop cameras fit both EF and EF-S. 

As for better images, it depends how large you print.  My largest prints are 13"x19" and crop works well for that.

You can mount more lenses on a crop, but that doesn't mean you have more options. Crop below 28mm FF equivalent has one v good option: Tokina 11-16 2.8. However full frame has 24-105 f4, 24-70 2.8, 24 1.4, 15mm FE 2.8 (which is boring on a crop), 14mm 2.8 (which is nothing special on a crop camera), 16-35 2.8, not to mention that the 35 1.4 is an excellent lens on FF but becomes a rather boring 56mm on a crop camera. There isn't a good 35mm equivalent prime for a crop camera. And all of the wide angle options are very well made and reliable lenses with USM (except the 15mm FE).

I wish it was different, and maybe one day it will be, but FF has a great many advantages over crop. That's why so many people want full frame. Crop cameras have the advantage of lower cost, and a little better reach at the penalty of lower IQ and fewer focal length options.
Title: Re: 1Ds4 & 5D3 Timetable [CR1]
Post by: zalmagor on March 15, 2011, 07:34:55 AM
... FF cameras produce better images/video and have more/better glass options.

Actually you have more lens options with crop because crop cameras fit both EF and EF-S. 

As for better images, it depends how large you print.  My largest prints are 13"x19" and crop works well for that.

You can mount more lenses on a crop, but that doesn't mean you have more options. Crop below 28mm FF equivalent has one v good option: Tokina 11-16 2.8. However full frame has 24-105 f4, 24-70 2.8, 24 1.4, 15mm FE 2.8 (which is boring on a crop), 14mm 2.8 (which is nothing special on a crop camera), 16-35 2.8, not to mention that the 35 1.4 is an excellent lens on FF but becomes a rather boring 56mm on a crop camera. There isn't a good 35mm equivalent prime for a crop camera. And all of the wide angle options are very well made and reliable lenses with USM (except the 15mm FE).

I wish it was different, and maybe one day it will be, but FF has a great many advantages over crop. That's why so many people want full frame. Crop cameras have the advantage of lower cost, and a little better reach at the penalty of lower IQ and fewer focal length options.

What about the EF-S 10-22mm & Sigma 8-16mm for crop ?
Title: Re: 1Ds4 & 5D3 Timetable [CR1]
Post by: Bob Howland on March 15, 2011, 09:04:52 AM
There isn't a good 35mm equivalent prime for a crop camera.

My 24 f/1.4 works well on my 40D.
Title: Re: 1Ds4 & 5D3 Timetable [CR1]
Post by: Etienne on March 15, 2011, 10:36:44 AM
... FF cameras produce better images/video and have more/better glass options.

Actually you have more lens options with crop because crop cameras fit both EF and EF-S. 

As for better images, it depends how large you print.  My largest prints are 13"x19" and crop works well for that.

You can mount more lenses on a crop, but that doesn't mean you have more options. Crop below 28mm FF equivalent has one v good option: Tokina 11-16 2.8. However full frame has 24-105 f4, 24-70 2.8, 24 1.4, 15mm FE 2.8 (which is boring on a crop), 14mm 2.8 (which is nothing special on a crop camera), 16-35 2.8, not to mention that the 35 1.4 is an excellent lens on FF but becomes a rather boring 56mm on a crop camera. There isn't a good 35mm equivalent prime for a crop camera. And all of the wide angle options are very well made and reliable lenses with USM (except the 15mm FE).

I wish it was different, and maybe one day it will be, but FF has a great many advantages over crop. That's why so many people want full frame. Crop cameras have the advantage of lower cost, and a little better reach at the penalty of lower IQ and fewer focal length options.

What about the EF-S 10-22mm & Sigma 8-16mm for crop ?

These two are a little dark and not constant aperture, and not weather-sealed
Title: Re: 1Ds4 & 5D3 Timetable [CR1]
Post by: Etienne on March 15, 2011, 10:37:59 AM
There isn't a good 35mm equivalent prime for a crop camera.

My 24 f/1.4 works well on my 40D.

Good point, this lens is good on any camera. Although you lose the ultra-wide perspective.
Title: Re: 1Ds4 & 5D3 Timetable [CR1]
Post by: GMCPhotographics on March 16, 2011, 10:24:55 AM
Actually you have more lens options with crop because crop cameras fit both EF and EF-S. 

As for better images, it depends how large you print.  My largest prints are 13"x19" and crop works well for that.

You can mount more lenses on a crop, but that doesn't mean you have more options. Crop below 28mm FF equivalent has one v good option: Tokina 11-16 2.8. However full frame has 24-105 f4, 24-70 2.8, 24 1.4, 15mm FE 2.8 (which is boring on a crop), 14mm 2.8 (which is nothing special on a crop camera), 16-35 2.8, not to mention that the 35 1.4 is an excellent lens on FF but becomes a rather boring 56mm on a crop camera. There isn't a good 35mm equivalent prime for a crop camera. And all of the wide angle options are very well made and reliable lenses with USM (except the 15mm FE).

I wish it was different, and maybe one day it will be, but FF has a great many advantages over crop. That's why so many people want full frame. Crop cameras have the advantage of lower cost, and a little better reach at the penalty of lower IQ and fewer focal length options.
[/quote]

What about the EF-S 10-22mm & Sigma 8-16mm for crop ?
[/quote]

These two are a little dark and not constant aperture, and not weather-sealed
[/quote]

The efs 10-222 is a really sweet lens optically, but compared to the build of a 16-35IIL it's a toy in comparision.
The ef-s lens is really light, which is another indicator of a toy-town build. The ef 16-35IIL has a lot more metal in it's outer construction and really is a pro lens for industrial use.
Title: Re: 1Ds4 & 5D3 Timetable [CR1]
Post by: motorhead on March 16, 2011, 11:56:33 AM
I don't believe a smaller sensor will ever have an advantage over a larger one. It has always been the case that a good big-un is better than a good little-un. Convenient and cheaper maybe, but for image quality at the end of the day, the bigger the captured image the better. It was always true with film and I'm convinced that it will remain true in this modern digital world.

It's interesting that Canon are said to be interested in acquiring a medium format foothold. While the Japanese have made the 35mm "full frame" size their own, the same is not true of larger formats. Pentax have at least made a start but Canon and Nikon seem to be a bit slow getting into the game.

Once digital technology matures, I can foresee 1.3x and 1.6x crop frame becoming a thing of the past.     
Title: Re: 1Ds4 & 5D3 Timetable [CR1]
Post by: djjohnr on March 16, 2011, 12:00:22 PM
... FF cameras produce better images/video and have more/better glass options.

As for better images, it depends how large you print.  My largest prints are 13"x19" and crop works well for that.

You will get sharper images from a FF sensor than a crop sensor with the same pixel count using the same lens. This is because smaller pixels require more resolving power from the lens.   It is noticeable in a 13*19 print.  It's even noticeable in a 6*9 print if you look close.  Whether or not this matters depends on what your goal with an image is. 
Title: Re: 1Ds4 & 5D3 Timetable [CR1]
Post by: WarStreet on March 16, 2011, 01:02:12 PM
This is because smaller pixels require more resolving power from the lens.

I look at it in a more positive way, larger FF pixels get more resolving power from the lens.


Title: Re: 1Ds4 & 5D3 Timetable [CR1]
Post by: djjohnr on March 16, 2011, 05:51:14 PM
This is because smaller pixels require more resolving power from the lens.

I look at it in a more positive way, larger FF pixels get more resolving power from the lens.

I'm on the constant quest for more resolving power.  It looks like I'll be moving to 4x5 soon.  To get similar a 12x18 print at the same lp/mm I'd need a FF lens/sensor combo that could manage 100 lp/mm  :o
Title: Re: 1Ds4 & 5D3 Timetable [CR1]
Post by: gmrza on March 16, 2011, 07:33:36 PM
I don't believe a smaller sensor will ever have an advantage over a larger one. It has always been the case that a good big-un is better than a good little-un. Convenient and cheaper maybe, but for image quality at the end of the day, the bigger the captured image the better. It was always true with film and I'm convinced that it will remain true in this modern digital world.

It's interesting that Canon are said to be interested in acquiring a medium format foothold. While the Japanese have made the 35mm "full frame" size their own, the same is not true of larger formats. Pentax have at least made a start but Canon and Nikon seem to be a bit slow getting into the game.

Once digital technology matures, I can foresee 1.3x and 1.6x crop frame becoming a thing of the past.   

Given the economics of semiconductor production, smaller sensors will always have a cost advantage over larger sensors.  Since an APS-C sensor is good enough for many uses, we may well see crop frame sensors continue to be used.
Where a crop sensor has a distinct advantage is in areas such as wildlife photography on foot.  A photographer can carry lighter and cheaper lenses, and still get a chance at getting a shot.  (Imagine lugging a 600mm lens on foot across mountainous terrain with a few days' supplies and a tent in your backpack!)
I think the main driver of crop frame sensors will remain cost.  For most of the consumer market, a crop frame sensor is good enough.  This is because the resolving quality is good enough to produce the print sizes most consumers want, and many users are not concerned about the benefits of a full-frame sensor, such as shallower depth of field or better low light performance.
Title: Re: 1Ds4 & 5D3 Timetable [CR1]
Post by: DuLt on March 16, 2011, 08:30:16 PM
I don't believe a smaller sensor will ever have an advantage over a larger one. It has always been the case that a good big-un is better than a good little-un. Convenient and cheaper maybe, but for image quality at the end of the day, the bigger the captured image the better. It was always true with film and I'm convinced that it will remain true in this modern digital world.

It's interesting that Canon are said to be interested in acquiring a medium format foothold. While the Japanese have made the 35mm "full frame" size their own, the same is not true of larger formats. Pentax have at least made a start but Canon and Nikon seem to be a bit slow getting into the game.

Once digital technology matures, I can foresee 1.3x and 1.6x crop frame becoming a thing of the past.   

Given the economics of semiconductor production, smaller sensors will always have a cost advantage over larger sensors.  Since an APS-C sensor is good enough for many uses, we may well see crop frame sensors continue to be used.
Where a crop sensor has a distinct advantage is in areas such as wildlife photography on foot.  A photographer can carry lighter and cheaper lenses, and still get a chance at getting a shot.  (Imagine lugging a 600mm lens on foot across mountainous terrain with a few days' supplies and a tent in your backpack!)
I think the main driver of crop frame sensors will remain cost.  For most of the consumer market, a crop frame sensor is good enough.  This is because the resolving quality is good enough to produce the print sizes most consumers want, and many users are not concerned about the benefits of a full-frame sensor, such as shallower depth of field or better low light performance.

The shallower DoF isn't really a benefict, more a characteristic. Depending on the usage it can be bad or good.
Title: Re: 1Ds4 & 5D3 Timetable [CR1]
Post by: f1user on March 16, 2011, 08:55:05 PM

(1) It is easier to get a better resolving ability with an EF-S lens instead an EF one when used on APS-C

(2) "Get the most out of the 18mp crop sensors" is just non sense.  Resolution will improve when you improve either the sensor or lens. So, a better lens will improve the end result resolution on both a 12mp and an 18mp sensors. On the other hand, an 18mp sensor will improve the end result resolution compared to a 12mp sensor, even when used on an old low resolution lens. So the 18mp sensors resolution with the current lenses, are ahead than the lower mp sensors and don't need any extra help, while an improved lens is welcome for all sensors not just the 18mp ones  ;)
 

IMHO a good lens will highlight the defects in a cheap sensor and a high mp sensor will show up the flaws in a cheap lens. Therefore, if you've got a decent crop camera, you want a damn fine lens.

An image produced by a crop sensor has to be enlarged [eg. x 1.6] more than a FF image just to produce the same size print. You enlarge the image... you enlarge the flaws. That's why, traditionally, large & medium format lenses don't have the resolving ability of smaller formats like 35mm. They don't need it.

What I'm trying to say is that, if you're using a crop camera, it's probably more important to have excellent quality glass, and therefore L series lenses are a no brainer. I think that's what the author of this thread was trying to say when they said "“L” lenses and the development of them are whats needed to get the most out of the 18mp crop sensors."
Title: Re: 1Ds4 & 5D3 Timetable [CR1]
Post by: Eagle Eye on March 23, 2011, 05:07:13 AM
Comments from Australia
The 5D Mark III will come at least 6 months after the 1Ds replacement. If a 1Ds is announced in April, that would put a 5D3 in the Oct 2011 timeframe. That would be just over 3 years since the 5D Mark II</li>
The EF-S line of lenses are not high on the list of priorities at Canon.</li>
“L” lenses and the development of them are whats needed to get the most out of the 18mp crop sensors.
Australia could expect price drops in April to combat the grey market.</li>
I will note, I have not yet heard from the “2012 for the 1Ds replacement” folks in a while.</p>

A Canon rep who spoke to a local photo club in Sydney, Australia also said categorically "THERE WILL BE NO 5D Mark III in 2011." He said this without qualification (i.e. nothing like "to my knowledge"). He was very frank in this statement. The other things mentioned in the original post were also mentioned.
Title: Re: 1Ds4 & 5D3 Timetable [CR1]
Post by: prestonpalmer on March 23, 2011, 05:16:46 AM
I would be astonished if they didn't release a 5DIII in 2011
Title: Re: 1Ds4 & 5D3 Timetable [CR1]
Post by: x-vision on April 03, 2011, 10:56:46 PM
The EF-S line of lenses are not high on the list of priorities at Canon.

Right when some 'sources' are claiming that EF-S lenses are no longer a priority for Canon,
Canon is filing a patent for an 11mm/F2 EF-S prime:

http://egami.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2011-04-01#english

So long for the credibility of these so called 'sources'.

See also my previous post in this thread for the upcoming F2 replacement of the 17-55/F2.8.

Title: Re: 1Ds4 & 5D3 Timetable [CR1]
Post by: kubelik on April 04, 2011, 11:36:04 AM
The EF-S line of lenses are not high on the list of priorities at Canon.

Right when some 'sources' are claiming that EF-S lenses are no longer a priority for Canon,
Canon is filing a patent for an 11mm/F2 EF-S prime:

http://egami.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2011-04-01#english

So long for the credibility of these so called 'sources'.

See also my previous post in this thread for the upcoming F2 replacement of the 17-55/F2.8.

from what we've seen, Canon's also got a bunch of DO patents out there ... don't draw too big a conclusion about canon's long-term strategy from a single patent