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Gear Talk => EOS Bodies - For Stills => Topic started by: bdunbar79 on July 01, 2012, 02:21:48 PM

Title: Daytime Event Shooting
Post by: bdunbar79 on July 01, 2012, 02:21:48 PM
Does anybody here ever have to shoot events during the day, such as between 10am and 3pm?  I did yesterday and due to the sun, I missed so many potentially great shots, taken otherwise in proper lighting (morning or evening).  Does this frustrate anyone?  Sorry I'm just venting :)
Title: Re: Daytime Event Shooting
Post by: Z on July 01, 2012, 04:14:09 PM
Are you able to post some examples? If so, maybe forum members could offer input and advice on how to deal with similar situations in future.

Tasteful use of fill flash springs to mind!
Title: Re: Daytime Event Shooting
Post by: distant.star on July 01, 2012, 05:47:27 PM



.

Yep, high contrast scenes, harsh light, speckling shade under trees, etc. -- it's quite a challenge. I've been doing it a lot lately. My best advice is lowered expectations, resourcefulness and lots of post-processing.

Different types of events can have different challenges. In situations where you have some control, you can ask people to move for optimal lighting/background and such. Sometimes you can move objects, most time not. If you want strictly candid shots, you're at the absolute mercy of the elements most of the time. Often it's best to watch the overall event and see where the best setting is -- then set up there and use that as your little "studio." That can take some discipline when a lot is going on all over the place.

If you can pose people, bring along a simple umbrella. Lots of color in an umbrella can be used both as sunshield and background color. A light/gray umbrella can be used for simply diffusing the light uniformly.

Generally, when doing scenes, there's little choice but eval metering. If I'm going for head shots, I'll use spot metering and do as much as I can to fill the frame with the person's head. I also tend to slightly underexpose and use selected fill light in post. Oh, and don't forget a lens hood.

Someone mentioned fill flash. That's always an option in the right situation. I tend to use it rarely -- once or twice in an 800-shot event a couple of weeks ago.

If you have control of time, use it. Where events go on all day, get there early and use better light, or be there late. Sometimes, there isn't a choice -- the July 4 parade here on Wednesday starts at noon. Shooting the vehicles in the parade on the street, I'll need a polarizing filter against glare. To get the people on the sidelines, that filter will just cut down my shutter speed. It's all compromise.

As I said in the beginning, lowered expectations can alleviate some of the frustrations.

Best to remember the old "Dirty Harry" movie advice -- a man's gotta know his limitations.
Title: Re: Daytime Event Shooting
Post by: bdunbar79 on July 01, 2012, 06:03:20 PM
Thank you very much guys.  Yes I can also post some photos.  I am really not an event photographer; that is something I've just recently gotten into.  Heck even weddings were more controlled than an outdoor balloon festival all day.  I like your suggestions a lot distant.star.  I will read through your post many times.  Fill flash is a good option, but limited where I was.  Outdoor still shots/controlled shots, sure, but this was rapid movement rapid fire from 12-2pm mostly!  Ouch!  Again, thanks.
Title: Re: Daytime Event Shooting
Post by: Marsu42 on July 01, 2012, 07:05:39 PM
I missed so many potentially great shots, taken otherwise in proper lighting (morning or evening).

... highlight recovery +100, shadows +100 :-) .. and you can have a couple of assistants swarm around you with flashes and reflectors - I'm always amazed by the big effort if I see film crews setting up the light for daytime shooting.
Title: Re: Daytime Event Shooting
Post by: bdunbar79 on July 01, 2012, 07:36:07 PM
I missed so many potentially great shots, taken otherwise in proper lighting (morning or evening).

... highlight recovery +100, shadows +100 :-) .. and you can have a couple of assistants swarm around you with flashes and reflectors - I'm always amazed by the big effort if I see film crews setting up the light for daytime shooting.

100's not high enough :)  If only I were good enough to have those assistants following me around. 
Title: Re: Daytime Event Shooting
Post by: wickidwombat on July 01, 2012, 07:42:18 PM
pretty much essential to have an assistant with an off camera flash setup maybe 2 or 3 flashes in a ganglight setup through an umbrella. depends on how much power you need really
Title: Re: Daytime Event Shooting
Post by: bdunbar79 on July 01, 2012, 08:10:37 PM
pretty much essential to have an assistant with an off camera flash setup maybe 2 or 3 flashes in a ganglight setup through an umbrella. depends on how much power you need really

I agree.  But I only do 2-3 events/year, most of my other stuff is sports and portraits.  So far this year I've covered a parade and then this festival.  Next weekend I'm covering a fireworks event.  And that'll be it until football and volleyball season.  I don't even do weddings anymore, so I have no assistant.  It was tough.
Title: Re: Daytime Event Shooting
Post by: wickidwombat on July 01, 2012, 08:20:24 PM
here's an option if you absolutly have to go it alone :P

Human Light Suit: Burning Man 2010 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0k1LK6pmozs#ws)
Title: Re: Daytime Event Shooting
Post by: briansquibb on July 01, 2012, 08:42:39 PM
I use a light stick with 3 flash heads, hand held plus one on the shoe, all PW fired.

HSS is no problem - at iso50 to reduce the impact of the ambient

Can shoot 1 handed as shutter speed will be about 1/4000.
Title: Re: Daytime Event Shooting
Post by: bdunbar79 on July 01, 2012, 08:48:48 PM
Oh I love this board.  You guys crack me up.  I'm not upset about the event anymore thanks to that video, oh man was that a good one!  :P
Title: Re: Daytime Event Shooting
Post by: wickidwombat on July 01, 2012, 09:04:43 PM
Oh I love this board.  You guys crack me up.  I'm not upset about the event anymore thanks to that video, oh man was that a good one!  :P

glad you liked it :)

now you just need a wheel barrow some batteries and soft boxes.... :P
Title: Re: Daytime Event Shooting
Post by: distant.star on July 01, 2012, 09:36:48 PM

.
Brian, I had no idea you could be so subtle!



I use a light stick with 3 flash heads, hand held plus one on the shoe, all PW fired.

HSS is no problem - at iso50 to reduce the impact of the ambient

Can shoot 1 handed as shutter speed will be about 1/4000.
Title: Re: Daytime Event Shooting
Post by: briansquibb on July 02, 2012, 01:57:43 AM

.
Brian, I had no idea you could be so subtle!



I use a light stick with 3 flash heads, hand held plus one on the shoe, all PW fired.

HSS is no problem - at iso50 to reduce the impact of the ambient

Can shoot 1 handed as shutter speed will be about 1/4000.

:D

My lightsaber is very, very useful at wedding receptions too . Here is an example of it being used in a disco, 2 flash pointing up for bounce, 1 down for hairlight, one onshoe for catchlight

Indoors, in the dark I will shoot at 1/160- 1/250, f/5.6 or f/8, iso 200/400

Not a good portrait - but shows how it can be used in a tight space - 50 f/1.4 on 1D4 - not cropped. Single flash on shoe does not give as good light as this from 4/5ft. The light stick is held some 3-4 ft above my head.

- The big bouce means I get some local ambient whilst taking shots at low iso
- shadow is minimum as bounced light source is from above the people, whereas onshoe bouce means shadow from close objects

The onshoe is just a tickle so the local people dont get flash blinded

Camera Model   Canon EOS-1D Mark IV
Shooting Date/Time   30/06/2012 00:05:48
Shooting Mode   Manual Exposure
Tv( Shutter Speed )   1/160
Av( Aperture Value )   5.6
Metering Mode   Evaluative Metering
ISO Speed   400
Auto ISO Speed   OFF
Lens   EF50mm f/1.4 USM
Focal Length   50.0mm
Flash   On
Flash Type   External E-TTL
Flash Exposure Compensation   -1/3
AF Mode   AI Servo AF
Drive Mode   Low-speed continuous shooting
Title: Re: Daytime Event Shooting
Post by: RLPhoto on July 02, 2012, 03:26:01 PM
Does anybody here ever have to shoot events during the day, such as between 10am and 3pm?  I did yesterday and due to the sun, I missed so many potentially great shots, taken otherwise in proper lighting (morning or evening).  Does this frustrate anyone?  Sorry I'm just venting :)

Get a good flash for filling in shadows, And post-process the RAW's to your tastes.

If there is any posed photos during the event, get a scrim and use it to soften the light above there head. It will get a basic Rembrandt light and looks great. Much simpler than multiple flash setups.
Title: Re: Daytime Event Shooting
Post by: Marsu42 on July 02, 2012, 04:03:26 PM
... highlight recovery +100, shadows +100 :-)
100's not high enough :)

Actually, there's a good way even around this: As long as there's any data to recover in highlights and shadows, you can try single image exposure fusion: make 2 virtual copies +-2ev or +-1.5ev, then re-combine them in Photomatrix or with enfuse. I hope Lightroom 5 will have this procedure built-in, very handy, you can even do batch processing this way.
Title: Re: Daytime Event Shooting
Post by: briansquibb on July 02, 2012, 05:56:14 PM
Does anybody here ever have to shoot events during the day, such as between 10am and 3pm?  I did yesterday and due to the sun, I missed so many potentially great shots, taken otherwise in proper lighting (morning or evening).  Does this frustrate anyone?  Sorry I'm just venting :)

Get a good flash for filling in shadows, And post-process the RAW's to your tastes.

If there is any posed photos during the event, get a scrim and use it to soften the light above there head. It will get a basic Rembrandt light and looks great. Much simpler than multiple flash setups.

Cant get much simpler than 1 off camera, 1 on shoe plus of course the sun
Title: Re: Daytime Event Shooting
Post by: RLPhoto on July 02, 2012, 05:58:43 PM
Does anybody here ever have to shoot events during the day, such as between 10am and 3pm?  I did yesterday and due to the sun, I missed so many potentially great shots, taken otherwise in proper lighting (morning or evening).  Does this frustrate anyone?  Sorry I'm just venting :)

Get a good flash for filling in shadows, And post-process the RAW's to your tastes.

If there is any posed photos during the event, get a scrim and use it to soften the light above there head. It will get a basic Rembrandt light and looks great. Much simpler than multiple flash setups.

Cant get much simpler than 1 off camera, 1 on shoe plus of course the sun

I suppose. A Large 60" Scrim can do wonders to soften patched light or harsh direct over head light into stunning light that gives large catchlights in the eyes. Its like carrying a 60" soft box with you. ;D
Title: Re: Daytime Event Shooting
Post by: briansquibb on July 02, 2012, 06:01:31 PM
Does anybody here ever have to shoot events during the day, such as between 10am and 3pm?  I did yesterday and due to the sun, I missed so many potentially great shots, taken otherwise in proper lighting (morning or evening).  Does this frustrate anyone?  Sorry I'm just venting :)

Get a good flash for filling in shadows, And post-process the RAW's to your tastes.

If there is any posed photos during the event, get a scrim and use it to soften the light above there head. It will get a basic Rembrandt light and looks great. Much simpler than multiple flash setups.

Cant get much simpler than 1 off camera, 1 on shoe plus of course the sun

I suppose. A Large 60" Scrim can do wonders to soften patched light or harsh direct over head light into stunning light that gives large catchlights in the eyes. Its like carrying a 60" soft box with you. ;D

Hope it isn't windy
Title: Re: Daytime Event Shooting
Post by: RLPhoto on July 02, 2012, 06:07:07 PM
Does anybody here ever have to shoot events during the day, such as between 10am and 3pm?  I did yesterday and due to the sun, I missed so many potentially great shots, taken otherwise in proper lighting (morning or evening).  Does this frustrate anyone?  Sorry I'm just venting :)

Get a good flash for filling in shadows, And post-process the RAW's to your tastes.

If there is any posed photos during the event, get a scrim and use it to soften the light above there head. It will get a basic Rembrandt light and looks great. Much simpler than multiple flash setups.

Cant get much simpler than 1 off camera, 1 on shoe plus of course the sun

I suppose. A Large 60" Scrim can do wonders to soften patched light or harsh direct over head light into stunning light that gives large catchlights in the eyes. Its like carrying a 60" soft box with you. ;D

Hope it isn't windy

Hope you carry sandbags.
Title: Re: Daytime Event Shooting
Post by: briansquibb on July 02, 2012, 06:08:19 PM
Does anybody here ever have to shoot events during the day, such as between 10am and 3pm?  I did yesterday and due to the sun, I missed so many potentially great shots, taken otherwise in proper lighting (morning or evening).  Does this frustrate anyone?  Sorry I'm just venting :)

Get a good flash for filling in shadows, And post-process the RAW's to your tastes.

If there is any posed photos during the event, get a scrim and use it to soften the light above there head. It will get a basic Rembrandt light and looks great. Much simpler than multiple flash setups.

Cant get much simpler than 1 off camera, 1 on shoe plus of course the sun

I suppose. A Large 60" Scrim can do wonders to soften patched light or harsh direct over head light into stunning light that gives large catchlights in the eyes. Its like carrying a 60" soft box with you. ;D

Hope it isn't windy

Hope you carry sandbags.

No need when using flash :D
Title: Re: Daytime Event Shooting
Post by: RLPhoto on July 02, 2012, 06:10:07 PM
Does anybody here ever have to shoot events during the day, such as between 10am and 3pm?  I did yesterday and due to the sun, I missed so many potentially great shots, taken otherwise in proper lighting (morning or evening).  Does this frustrate anyone?  Sorry I'm just venting :)

Get a good flash for filling in shadows, And post-process the RAW's to your tastes.

If there is any posed photos during the event, get a scrim and use it to soften the light above there head. It will get a basic Rembrandt light and looks great. Much simpler than multiple flash setups.

Cant get much simpler than 1 off camera, 1 on shoe plus of course the sun

I suppose. A Large 60" Scrim can do wonders to soften patched light or harsh direct over head light into stunning light that gives large catchlights in the eyes. Its like carrying a 60" soft box with you. ;D

Hope it isn't windy

Hope you carry sandbags.

No need when using flash :D

Windy day + Flash on Stand = Bad Day for your Flash.
Title: Re: Daytime Event Shooting
Post by: briansquibb on July 02, 2012, 06:12:31 PM
Does anybody here ever have to shoot events during the day, such as between 10am and 3pm?  I did yesterday and due to the sun, I missed so many potentially great shots, taken otherwise in proper lighting (morning or evening).  Does this frustrate anyone?  Sorry I'm just venting :)

Get a good flash for filling in shadows, And post-process the RAW's to your tastes.

If there is any posed photos during the event, get a scrim and use it to soften the light above there head. It will get a basic Rembrandt light and looks great. Much simpler than multiple flash setups.

Cant get much simpler than 1 off camera, 1 on shoe plus of course the sun

I suppose. A Large 60" Scrim can do wonders to soften patched light or harsh direct over head light into stunning light that gives large catchlights in the eyes. Its like carrying a 60" soft box with you. ;D

Hope it isn't windy

Hope you carry sandbags.

No need when using flash :D

Windy day + Flash on Stand = Bad Day for your Flash.

Not in my experience - but a 60inch scrim will be off like a kite
Title: Re: Daytime Event Shooting
Post by: RLPhoto on July 02, 2012, 06:17:03 PM
Does anybody here ever have to shoot events during the day, such as between 10am and 3pm?  I did yesterday and due to the sun, I missed so many potentially great shots, taken otherwise in proper lighting (morning or evening).  Does this frustrate anyone?  Sorry I'm just venting :)

Get a good flash for filling in shadows, And post-process the RAW's to your tastes.

If there is any posed photos during the event, get a scrim and use it to soften the light above there head. It will get a basic Rembrandt light and looks great. Much simpler than multiple flash setups.

Cant get much simpler than 1 off camera, 1 on shoe plus of course the sun

I suppose. A Large 60" Scrim can do wonders to soften patched light or harsh direct over head light into stunning light that gives large catchlights in the eyes. Its like carrying a 60" soft box with you. ;D

Hope it isn't windy

Hope you carry sandbags.

No need when using flash :D

Windy day + Flash on Stand = Bad Day for your Flash.

Not in my experience - but a 60inch scrim will be off like a kite

As long as you dont plan to do anything to soften your flash.
Title: Re: Daytime Event Shooting
Post by: briansquibb on July 02, 2012, 06:29:25 PM
Does anybody here ever have to shoot events during the day, such as between 10am and 3pm?  I did yesterday and due to the sun, I missed so many potentially great shots, taken otherwise in proper lighting (morning or evening).  Does this frustrate anyone?  Sorry I'm just venting :)

Get a good flash for filling in shadows, And post-process the RAW's to your tastes.

If there is any posed photos during the event, get a scrim and use it to soften the light above there head. It will get a basic Rembrandt light and looks great. Much simpler than multiple flash setups.

Cant get much simpler than 1 off camera, 1 on shoe plus of course the sun

I suppose. A Large 60" Scrim can do wonders to soften patched light or harsh direct over head light into stunning light that gives large catchlights in the eyes. Its like carrying a 60" soft box with you. ;D

Hope it isn't windy

Hope you carry sandbags.

No need when using flash :D

Windy day + Flash on Stand = Bad Day for your Flash.

Not in my experience - but a 60inch scrim will be off like a kite

As long as you dont plan to do anything to soften your flash.

I guess that is where experience kicks in :D

How you think people shoot flash outdoors in all weathers?

Title: Re: Daytime Event Shooting
Post by: RLPhoto on July 02, 2012, 06:36:38 PM
Does anybody here ever have to shoot events during the day, such as between 10am and 3pm?  I did yesterday and due to the sun, I missed so many potentially great shots, taken otherwise in proper lighting (morning or evening).  Does this frustrate anyone?  Sorry I'm just venting :)

Get a good flash for filling in shadows, And post-process the RAW's to your tastes.

If there is any posed photos during the event, get a scrim and use it to soften the light above there head. It will get a basic Rembrandt light and looks great. Much simpler than multiple flash setups.

Cant get much simpler than 1 off camera, 1 on shoe plus of course the sun

I suppose. A Large 60" Scrim can do wonders to soften patched light or harsh direct over head light into stunning light that gives large catchlights in the eyes. Its like carrying a 60" soft box with you. ;D

Hope it isn't windy

Hope you carry sandbags.

No need when using flash :D

Windy day + Flash on Stand = Bad Day for your Flash.

Not in my experience - but a 60inch scrim will be off like a kite

As long as you dont plan to do anything to soften your flash.

I guess that is where experience kicks in :D

How you think people shoot flash outdoors in all weathers?

From Experience, Its usually with a HEAVY SANDBAG Weighting down a Soft box or umbrella to modify the light from the flash to get nice, soft light.

Unless of course, you like Direct Flash... If that's your thing.
Title: Re: Daytime Event Shooting
Post by: briansquibb on July 02, 2012, 06:46:23 PM

From Experience, Its usually with a HEAVY SANDBAG Weighting down a Soft box or umbrella to modify the light from the flash to get nice, soft light.

Unless of course, you like Direct Flash... If that's your thing.

There are several other options - big softbox is probably less useful. Moving a flash stand and sandbags is entertaining on your own and will lead to missed shots
Title: Re: Daytime Event Shooting
Post by: RLPhoto on July 02, 2012, 06:52:40 PM

From Experience, Its usually with a HEAVY SANDBAG Weighting down a Soft box or umbrella to modify the light from the flash to get nice, soft light.

Unless of course, you like Direct Flash... If that's your thing.

There are several other options - big softbox is probably less useful. Moving a flash stand and sandbags is entertaining on your own and will lead to missed shots

Hmmm... Weren't we discussing posed photos? ???

A scrim is 30$, lightweight and easy implement. Give's good light and fixes the issue of 12 o'clock light.

2 Flashes, plus a lightstand and a modifier is much more cumbersome and expensive. Not to mention if its a windy day, you'll need to bust out those sandbags. Don't even mention Canons Optical Flash system working on a super bright day, so even more money on triggers.  <---- I'd bet this would miss more photos.
Title: Re: Daytime Event Shooting
Post by: briansquibb on July 02, 2012, 06:58:11 PM
OP said event which I am guessing is not a posed shoot else missed shots would not be an issue.

To move the gear around that you are talking about would require assistants. If it was a posed shoot then you would probably not use speedlights, more like Rangers or the like

Title: Re: Daytime Event Shooting
Post by: RLPhoto on July 02, 2012, 07:00:51 PM
OP said event which I am guessing is not a posed shoot else missed shots would not be an issue.

To move the gear around that you are talking about would require assistants. If it was a posed shoot then you would probably not use speedlights, more like Rangers or the like

Hmmm... I also remember posting to the OP, That IF there was ANY posed shots, which is not un-common for event's at all, a scrim could be very useful, Lightweight, fast, and effective way to handle 12 o'clock light quickly.

Also, I'm not the one who recommended off-camera flash work.

I simply posted something that has worked very well for me.
Title: Re: Daytime Event Shooting
Post by: wickidwombat on July 02, 2012, 07:10:47 PM
I got a rayflash ring flash a little while ago and have been using it for these sorts of things it's actually pretty good on the 580 on camera for direct fill flashing, highly mobile and easy to take off in a hurry to go to bounce flash insteadquite portable and i made up a little braket that can attach to my L bracket and use radio triggers if i want to mix it with off camera flash and the odins since the hotshoe takes the odin transmitter