Messages

1

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Does Canon really have a Flagship Stills Camera?

« on: April 21, 2013, 09:08:40 AM »

Both images are full size files.





I used the very cool MultiExposure method (as I learned here on CR). It's ONE raw file on both images, shadowpushed to +100 in LR, and +40-something with shadows in the tone curve. I was out to really push the shadows as a test, not to create a HDR-image, and this is why the whites are a bit over here and there. I specifically chose a VERY high contrast scene I didn't expect any camera to perform any good at all. And the light is nowhere near as crazy with the things I normally shoot, or care about if the subject looks good.

Those who say the 1d X is dissapointing need to figure out how to use it...

It is pleasure for me  to see that Multiexposure method which I described last year here for 1Dx   is being used providing best possible IQ out of 1Dx.  When 1Dx is also used with extremly sharp 24-70 2.8L M2 or TS-E 17 4L  image IQ is just amazing - it is hard to believe that it is possible- I always amazed with the quality. There is one issue though for Phase One C1 and DXO Pro  white balance for ME files  - I opened the case with both and DXO already reasearched it  and found the problem and will fix it in future releases. Phase One  is still working on that. But root cause is the same - they did not took into account that color balance is already applied by canon  in ME output RAW file and appliying that for second time in SW which result in strong violet color cast for both DXO and C1.  As for now Canon   DPP provides best white balance for ME files- better then Lightroom.
LR4 works fine but Canon DPP  is even better for color balance - no corrections at all are required.

2

Third Party Manufacturers / Re: Canon may be expensive but...

« on: February 04, 2013, 02:03:39 AM »

@neuroanatomist & @TheSuede :

I think you are both correct but there are two aspects here.
 Hopefully modern sensors are designed in a way to prevent photocell saturation in normal conditions and at base ISO saturation point of photocell (or point just below) should match upper level of input voltage range of correspondent  ADC. This is required to obtain maximum possible DR from the sensor at base ISO.

 With lower light input (so less input photons) higher digital ISO should increase analog circuit gain so less photocell output should be amplified to the same upper input voltage of ADC.
This also explain why sensor DR is reducing 3db with ISO going up one step (for properly designed up do date modern sensors - e.g. from Sony you see that starting from base ISO).
 So for HTP at ISO higher than base ISO negative exposure compensation could be done just by reducing analog circuit gain.
But at base ISO this might not work - we still would need to reduce number of photons by reducing exposure time or using ND filters to prevent photocell saturation.
 Unfortunately there is no freely available information for sensor cell full path gain distribution (from photocell up to ADC) to see actual sensor performance in this respect (for different sensors). This would be interesting to see - actually this is one of the most important parts of the system design.

3

Third Party Manufacturers / Re: Canon may be expensive but...

« on: February 03, 2013, 01:25:04 PM »

Was reading this thread and could not help but putting some comments.
Let's look at the root of the discussed HTP issue 
What is the blown highlights means for the sensor? 
Really blown highlights ??
This means that photodiode of the photocell got saturated and any increase in number of captured photons cannot increase current via this photodiode .
Anybody is going to argue about that ?
Then what could be the remedy for this?
Answer is simple - reduce the number of photons.
How this could be done?
Use EC to  -1  and then later in processing  change gamma in tone curve to raise mid-tones and shadows  to the level which would be produced if camera  was used with EC=0.
This could be done manually or camera could do that automatically using HTP mode but reporting that all was done with EC=0 , actually cheating camera user.
This all simple physics - anyone could see response curve of the photodiode and understand what it is all about.
It does not matter how you name what is the happening but essence of the process does not change with this.
If photodiode is saturated no further on chip electrical post processing could recover highlights - they already blown.Full stop here.
This is ABC of electical engineering.

4

Third Party Manufacturers / Re: Hand on SONY RX 1.............AMAZING

« on: December 21, 2012, 04:51:21 AM »

Here is Michael Reichmann RX1 review on much respected www.luminous-landscape.com -very interesting:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/sony_rx1_review.shtml

5

Third Party Manufacturers / Re: Sony RX1 Full Frame sensor Compact leaked photos / rumor

« on: November 30, 2012, 06:48:16 AM »

this may not be the most objective site but it's worth a deeper look though (is there anybody objective out there?): http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2012/11/21/the-sony-rx1-digital-camera-review-part-1-an-intro-to-a-compact-powerhouse/
<...>

Thanks, very interesting article.
Author is right telling that "It is REVOLUTIONARY instead of EVOLUTIONARY".
This is what I was meaning in my post  telling that they are putting milestone in digital cameras evolution process. Somthing drastically different and starting point of new path in cameras evolution. Step up from what we have now on the market

6

Third Party Manufacturers / Re: Sony RX1 Full Frame sensor Compact leaked photos / rumor

« on: November 30, 2012, 06:22:08 AM »

And here is an  example of RX1  DR range – shadows recovery at iso50

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Third Party Manufacturers / Re: Sony RX1 Full Frame sensor Compact leaked photos / rumor

« on: November 30, 2012, 06:20:07 AM »

Downloaded and checked RX1 raw files from DPReview  -  image IQ is so good  – nothing comparable I believe in such form factor and beating out  many FF DSLRs.
  Here are snapshots for iso50, iso1600 and iso3200 from Capture One screen using Win7 snippet tool (C1 7.01 already has preliminary support for RX1). No adjustements - C1 default setting.

8

Third Party Manufacturers / Re: Sony RX1 Full Frame sensor Compact leaked photos / rumor

« on: November 30, 2012, 02:24:15 AM »

This is just awesome, I applaud you sony.

+1 Absolutely. SOny might have some odd "standards" but they showed a long time ago that they are SERIOUS about digital photography, and back in the day I had ALL the dsc-p# cameras from Sony, (P10 my absolute favorite) Sync flash at 1/1000s and of the very best looking cameras around. Plus they were about 50 million times faster than the Ixus's.

Sony, you might not be best at everything, but you have the biggest balls and push everyone  else and always go where no concervative Canon or Nikon man will go. Awesome!!! I've been waiting for FF (digital) compact since, hm, ever?

Glad  to see that there are number of people who understand what it is all about in general prospective.
  It was my dream as well to have compact high quality FF mirrorless camera with one of the best lenses so that I could always carry it with me.   And I am very glad to see that achievement from Sony.  It could be  very good complement to the 1Dx – I can use 1Dx for specialty shoots using different telephoto  lenses and RX1 as second camera with normal fixed lens – so I do not need to bother to change lenses on 1Dx when I need wider angle lens and  high quality image.
  To my view this is kind of conceptual camera to show what Sony is capable of now and I think their goal is to show their technologies in action thus putting milestone in digital cameras evolution. Sometimes this is more important than making profit at the very beginning.   Similar to what goldminers were doing in Alaska at earlier times   - putting marks that they reach this territory ahead of others and this is their territory.   Also to do all that in compact body is much bigger challenge and costs more than to do the same in the body which is twice or even more bigger .  Also big challenge is lens optic design for short distance between lens and FF sensor so that all light is fully captured by sensor pixels - to ensure  that light rays are fully orthogonal to the sensor surface at any pixel location on the sensor. And for faster lenses  this is much more difficult than for slow lens. Also this is lens with lens shutter - which is more  common for MF lenses  than for FF lenses (e.g. Schneider Kreuznach  leaf shutter lenses for Phase One 645dDF+ system http://www.phaseone.com/en/Camera-Systems/Leaf-Shutter-Lenses.aspx). Only this one is a big difference itself . Also low light performance should be at least 1/3 better than for new Sony A99 as there is no translucent mirror between lens and sensor.
 For me they just captured industry trend (pretty much that is something that you could “feel” in the air) at early stage  and embodied that in RX1.  And  long term evolution vector is towards mirrorless FF cameras with high quality phase detection AF directly on the sensor.   Technologies are already here.  It is now just matter of time and money to put all that in production.  I am sure that in some near  future we will see  number  FF mirrorless compact  cameras having phase detection AF  points all over the  frame  and not only in central area of the frame.
  I think that in some  time we will see pretty interesting review of this camera from Michael Reichmann on www.luminous-landscape.com. There is also already one availble on dpreview - http://www.dpreview.com/previews/sony-cybershot-dsc-rx1/

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EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Too much dynamic range?

« on: November 25, 2012, 11:46:29 AM »

DR is like USD - the more you have - the more you want   
 More DR like more USD gives more freedom and reduces dependencies on different circumstances and this in turn allows to get desired more easily and much  quicker.

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EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 1Dx ISO100 high DR shadows SNR improvement

« on: November 16, 2012, 10:12:21 AM »

Neutral have you tried mixing this with other HDR techniques? say -2EV and +2EV then using enfuse to blend
so a total of 27 shots? 3 combined super clean files blended together I think there is lots of potential with adapting this technique. Thanks for the find I cant wait to give it a go

I did not try that  but I think this could be very interesting.
Known issue for HDR is increasing image noise.
So having virtually noise free images from camera using ME could help get cleaner and better HDR images. When I look at some HDR images posted around I frequently want to take wet tissue and wipe that noise away as this is causing pain for my eyes)))

Lr enfuse doesn't make eye rending abominations like photomatix it takes the exposures and blends them so no noise gain anyway. I suspect in combination with your method it will enable some super clean files

I think this will definitely work as expected.
Will try that as well when have chance to do so.

11

HDR - High Dynamic Range / Re: Problems with Noise in Dark Areas

« on: November 16, 2012, 06:08:05 AM »

....
  HDR is as much an art as any other technique.  Use it, don't abuse it.

Exactly, frequently we see just opposite 

12

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 1Dx ISO100 high DR shadows SNR improvement

« on: November 16, 2012, 03:35:59 AM »

Neutral - thanks for the in-depth explanation - I'm anxious to try out your ME method...

As a matter of fact this is not my method 

This technique  was being used around for decades in different areas.

  I just was not very happy with 1Dx low ISO SNR performance  (as I like night/evening shooting)  and when saw that ME function in 1Dx – my first thought was that this could be workaround until we get new rumored Hi-Res camera that should bring some new sensor technologies.  I was tempting to buy Nikon D800 but thought that I can wait and do something with 1Dx.   

 Actually Multi-Exposure term is coming from old film times when in order  to mix together several  images you had to do multiple exposure from different frames on the same piece of photo paper.
Same functionality was main goal of introducing ME in digital cameras – and one of the application of this to catch phases of object movement in one shot - but there are also many other interesting artistic applications for that

Noise averaging using ME for improving SNR is just very useful side effect of this functionality.

And the other side effect which is also very useful -  is to simulate ND filter for long exposure.
Using ME method one will be getting much cleaner images than using ND filter to reduce amount of light into camera sensor.
If both are combined together (ND filter and ME method) you can get very interesting artistic effects due to ability to have very long exposures at day time.  I did not tried that yet but going to do so at some time.

13

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 1Dx ISO100 high DR shadows SNR improvement

« on: November 16, 2012, 02:39:39 AM »

Neutral have you tried mixing this with other HDR techniques? say -2EV and +2EV then using enfuse to blend
so a total of 27 shots? 3 combined super clean files blended together I think there is lots of potential with adapting this technique. Thanks for the find I cant wait to give it a go

I did not try that  but I think this could be very interesting.
Known issue for HDR is increasing image noise.
So having virtually noise free images from camera using ME could help get cleaner and better HDR images. When I look at some HDR images posted around I frequently want to take wet tissue and wipe that noise away as this is causing pain for my eyes)))

14

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 1Dx ISO100 high DR shadows SNR improvement

« on: November 16, 2012, 02:32:56 AM »

So I activate mirror lock just  before ME shot sequence  (done automatically after camera focused on the subject)  and then deactivate it after ME shot sequence  (using SET button - selectable option in mirror lock function) or it is deactivated itself later by camera itself .

Unfortunately this is not supported by my 5DMkIII that's why I was wondering how you can do that. So it's only Live View for me    (OK I know it is sufficient and actually a super set of Mirror Lock for this purpose but still ...)

  Actually mirror lock is not required – just an option to get better image sharpness – reducing camera vibrations and preventing refocusing for each ME shot in sequence.
If for first one nothing could be done with 5DM3 but for second one it is possible to focus automatically then switch lens to manual focus to keep focus unchanged during  ME sequence

Mirror lock is required for sharpness. There is no point in trying to lower the noise merely to induce camera shake. But is is achieved with LiveView. Anyway for shots on tripod - when it is getting dark - I use Mirror Lock and 2 second delay. Focusing is either AF and then turned to manual or Live View (with manual focus and 10x). So the only additional function is the Multiple Exposure (Mirror is Locked in LV).

I could not imagine that 5DM3 does not have similar as 1Dx option to keep mirror locked up for 30 seconds with early deactivation by SET button.
That’s good that you found a way for 5DM3 to keep mirror locked during ME sequence.
With that 5DM3 could have an edge over 1Dx for such kind of ME night/evening shots due to better sensor resolution.
   The only one thing I do not understand why Canon did not  do that as F/W feature with single button press as done in some other cameras (e.g. upcoming Sony DCS-RX1).  This is so simple to add that in F/W to give user easy way to cope with deep shadow noise issues at ISO100 for 1Dx and 5DM3.  They know the problem they know (I hope) how to deal with that so why not to make life easier to camera users who like night/evening shooting.
  It would be also interesting to see outcome of this noise averaging method on Nikon D800.
D800 could have up to 10 shots in ME sequence.  Combined with camera 36mpx sensor resolution and high DR outcome using this method could be really amazing (with good Hi-Res lens)

15

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 1Dx ISO100 high DR shadows SNR improvement

« on: November 16, 2012, 02:30:00 AM »

Neutral - thanks for the in-depth explanation - I'm anxious to try out your ME method.

BTW - my 1DX is my first 1 series camera - I'm loving it but there is a learning - it's threads like yours that I find helpful - inspired me to register at canonrumors. Thanks again.

Thanks for good words
My pleasure ))
 This is just illustration to what I was telling several times in some other posts – instead of useless arguments over subject(s)  that some most involved have no ideas or knowledge – better do something useful for others if you can do that )))
  And this was the reason I join forum recently – I got very tired of reading all that heated disputes about DXO sensor measurements  between people who do not understand that at all and wanted to show how  simple MATH is applied to real life.