April 20, 2014, 08:31:14 AM

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Messages - East Wind Photography

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1
EOS-M / Re: I fell in love with EOS-M again and again
« on: April 18, 2014, 09:45:06 PM »
Surapon, I just installed Magic Lantern on my M and so far so good.  I will give it a good test on Sunday.  ML team took one of our favorites and expanded it's capability.

Always a pleasure to see your images and read your pride in this small package camera.

2
EOS Bodies / Re: 1d IV vs. 7D II
« on: April 18, 2014, 09:39:21 PM »
And why I think it will have a big price tag !!!

3
EOS Bodies / Re: 1d IV vs. 7D II
« on: April 18, 2014, 11:27:35 AM »
I used to think the 7DII might come pretty close to FF in IQ and high ISO performance. Until last November, when a thread in CR completely disillusioned me. Next thing, I bought a 5DIII and sold my 7D and I've been kicking myself ever since that I didn't do it a year sooner. So yeah, I totally see what Jrista is talking about [although not cool to use 'trounce' in APS-C vs FF (that too same generation), Jrista, not cool].
I am lucky that I didn't end up waiting for 7DII and be disappointed.
Agreed!

If IQ was my only concern, I could walk into the local bestbuy and grab a 6D for less than what we expect a 7D2 will go for. There is no way short of physics defying magic that the 7D2 will beat it... But for me, I really want a more capable AF system and after playing with the touchscreen interface on a 70D, would like to see the next generation of that too... Hmmmm...... 5D4?

And this is where it gets interesting.  If the AF system gets improved that hopefully means more keepers as was the case with the 5DIII and 1DX.  So technically the IQ of the camera could be improved with a better more accurate AF system...as we know, Sensor IQ is nothing if the image is fuzzy to start with.

One needs to look at the system and not just one feature.  If the 7DII gets an AF system on par with 5DIII or 1DX then that systems is more desirable than a 6D.  I would expect a higher keeper rate (At least for subjects that are in action).  For me, having tasted the sweetness of the advanced AF systems, I could never go back to the old school 19point or less.  I would be disappointed, even if the sensor was noiseless.

Thats just me and buying a camera based on sensor alone is an amateur mistake.
Agreed!
I did not realize how bad the AF was on the 60D until I got into birding and tried a borrowed 5D3..... now I can't imagine getting another camera without a great AF system. My ideal camera would be the sampling density of APS-C and 5D3 (or better) AF system... this is why I am so keenly waiting for the 7D2 and why I did not even consider the 70D...

I picked up a 7d a year ago for a backup camera (again...after selling one to buy a 5diii). If i had to buy one now it would be a 5diii or 1dx if the wife let me.  However as a backup the 7d is ok and well its a backup.  My intent was/is to replace it with the 7dii.  I could easily just replace with another 5diii but i dont feel the need to rush out and make a purchase. I Wou,d rather wait and see if the 7dii has an improved af system...will certainly have better iq than the 7d.

On top of that i have magic lantern installed which stretches the 7d capability a bit and keeps me occupied while i wait for what seems like an eternity for 7dii orders to start.  However if the 7dii ends up being just another 70d with enhanced video then i may defer to another 5diii.


4
EOS Bodies / Re: 1d IV vs. 7D II
« on: April 18, 2014, 09:09:59 AM »
I used to think the 7DII might come pretty close to FF in IQ and high ISO performance. Until last November, when a thread in CR completely disillusioned me. Next thing, I bought a 5DIII and sold my 7D and I've been kicking myself ever since that I didn't do it a year sooner. So yeah, I totally see what Jrista is talking about [although not cool to use 'trounce' in APS-C vs FF (that too same generation), Jrista, not cool].
I am lucky that I didn't end up waiting for 7DII and be disappointed.
Agreed!

If IQ was my only concern, I could walk into the local bestbuy and grab a 6D for less than what we expect a 7D2 will go for. There is no way short of physics defying magic that the 7D2 will beat it... But for me, I really want a more capable AF system and after playing with the touchscreen interface on a 70D, would like to see the next generation of that too... Hmmmm...... 5D4?

And this is where it gets interesting.  If the AF system gets improved that hopefully means more keepers as was the case with the 5DIII and 1DX.  So technically the IQ of the camera could be improved with a better more accurate AF system...as we know, Sensor IQ is nothing if the image is fuzzy to start with.

One needs to look at the system and not just one feature.  If the 7DII gets an AF system on par with 5DIII or 1DX then that systems is more desirable than a 6D.  I would expect a higher keeper rate (At least for subjects that are in action).  For me, having tasted the sweetness of the advanced AF systems, I could never go back to the old school 19point or less.  I would be disappointed, even if the sensor was noiseless.

Thats just me and buying a camera based on sensor alone is an amateur mistake.



5
EOS Bodies / Re: 1d IV vs. 7D II
« on: April 17, 2014, 09:31:26 PM »
Do let me know when this thread gets back to a discussion between 1D IV vs 7D II.
Alas, it seems to have run off into another FF vs APS-C discussion...

1div is old and on its last leg.  Dont see it lasting long enough for any reputable testing firm to do an official comparison against the 7dii once it comes out.  Lastly it does no good to compare something against another that doesnt exist yet.

6
EOS Bodies / Re: 1d IV vs. 7D II
« on: April 17, 2014, 06:46:19 PM »
Pretty much an excellent description of what to expect.  Most of us agree that the 7DII will not equal the 1Dx.  The 1DX is really purpose built for sports and action photography.  The 7DII will be purpose built for video.  The writing is on the wall.  While I'm sure it will offer much more than the 7D and offer better IQ, much of the design is going to be built around a videographer's dream.

My fear is that a feature rich camera tailored to videography is going to be priced out of the range of most photographers who dont need the video features.  I predict this camera will come to market around 2800.00 which will mean more like 3200.00 because we know Canon will milk us for every penny in our accounts.

To make things worse just because they like to make us feel more pain, the initial order will likely be kits with lenses they have a boat load of stock on.  So we are talking an initial out-lie of about 3600 to 3800.

Jon, do you see a market for the 7DII except for those high-end shooters looking for reach?
If they want quality they have the 3 FF cameras.
If they are looking for value they have the 70D.

First, there is more to IQ than what the sensor does. I've said this a lot before on these forums, as had Neuro. Sometimes the focus capabilities and frame rate of a camera are VASTLY more important than how good the sensor is. In that respect, there aren't three FF options...there is really only one: The 1D X. The 5D III has a decent frame rate, but if the 7D II hits the streets at 10fps, the additional 4fps over the 5D III is going to be very significant. Were talking about a 67% increase relative to the 5D III. The 6D, while it has it's advocates, and it definitely pounds out the High ISO IQ, is definitely lagging in the AF area. That is not to say the 6D AF is bad...however it's no 61pt AF system either.

If the 7D II hits the street with 10fps, a comparable APS-C optimized AF system to the 61pt system (say 41pts?), and a 20-24mp sensor, then I absolutely think it will have a market, and I think it will sell like hotcakes. You definitely cannot compare that to the 6D. The only benefit the 6D has going for it is the larger sensor...but that is one out of many factors that affect IQ. The 5D III, in circumstances where frame rate is not critically important, will probably still give the 7D II very solid competition, but in the cases where frame rate is critically important, the only real full-frame counterpart to a 7D II with such specs would be the 1D X.

So yes...it will definitely have a market. I suspect they will fly off the shelves, despite the existence of the 6D. I suspect many a 5D III owner will buy one as a backup. I know for sure that a lot of aspiring amateur bird photographers will be picking one up, especially if a new 100-400 hits the streets along with the 7D II.

The reasons the 7D was a success have not changed. Nothing has really changed. The only thing that would kill the 7D II is if it hit with a MSRP over $2500...then I think that would kill off early adopters and slow sales until the price drops below $2500 at least (I think a price around $2000 is most likely.)

If Canon wants to replace the 1D (and IMO that's the only reason for 7DII to exist), Canon will try to replicate the IQ as close as possible. And that will mean lower MPs.
Note that Canon was pretty conservative with increasing megapixels on their 1D line.
They must have noticed people who want reach are wiling to sacrifice resolution for light sensitivity.
Mind you, the difference between APS-H and C isn't as much as with FF, so innovation in sensor light-sensitivity might well allow the newer APS-Cs (maybe not 7D though, if it still has the 70D sensor) to trounce the 1D line.

Why would you think the 7D II is a replacement for the 1D? The two lines are designed for completely different groups of buyers. The 7D II is not, has never been, and will never be a replacement to the 1D X. Your completely ignoring the price difference here. The price of the 7D II is likely to be less than 1/3rd that of the 1D X. It doesn't really matter how good the 1D X is, or how good it's potential successor is...price is the real segregator here. The 7D II will sell because it will fall within the realm of generally or eminently affordable to the majority of middle class buyers. At $6800, the 1D X does not fall into that class, not even close.

Regarding the megapixels of the 1D X, Canon didn't get away with anything, nor were they conservative with anything. It's so funny how short peoples memories are. :P I remember, very very clearly, the loudest and most vocal outcry from Canon customers before the releases of the 1D X, D800, 5D III, and D4. The loudest demand, by a very LARGE margin, was: "Fewer megapixels! Better high ISO!" That was what people wanted, was VERY MUCH what people wanted from the 1D IV/1Ds III successors. Canon didn't skimp, get away with, nor was conservative with the 1D X. They delivered EXACTLY what their customers literally demanded. For those who can afford it, it seems to be a raging success as well. It's converted more than a few pro Nikon shooters to the Canon camp, and has made raving fans of existing Canon 1D/1Ds users.

There is no chance the 7D II is ever, ever, ever, ever, EVER going to "trounce" anything with a larger sensor. Just not gonna happen. Again, outside of the one caveat I mentioned, the IQ you get from a sensor really has nothing to do with the pixels. Improvements in pixel technology are primarily going to reduce read noise, which is already a very small factor in the deep shadows, and secondarily improve sensitivity. The quantum efficiency, Q.E., of the 7D is already at 41%. To double the noise performance, Canon would have to achieve 82% Q.E. I know of sensors that can achieve 82% Q.E. at around 650-600nm, but all of them require significant cooling to do so...usually a Delta-T of -50°C or more. That kind of cooling requires a lot of power (for example, most high Q.E. Astro CCD cameras use two- or three-stage peltier cooling...a peltier, or TEC is a thermoelectric cooling device that uses a P-N transistor matrix to create an electronic heat pump...they draw significant amounts of energy.)

Now, assuming Canon did somehow manage to improve the Q.E. of their sensors to 82% at average operating temperatures (pretty much not possible, dark current is going to be very high at operating temperatures of 60°F and above) but just for the sake of discussion, let's assume they do. At 82%, they can double their noise performance (reduce noise by half). That still doesn't cut it. The 1D X has a total sensor area that is 2.6x greater than the 7D (and any potential 7D II), so you would at least need to increase the 7D II's Q.E. by 2.6x instead of just 2x. Well, that isn't actually possible. To double Q.E. again beyond 82%, you would need 164%...but you can't have better than 100% Q.E. (quantum efficiency is the ratio of conversion of photons to released electron charge in a photodiode...you cannot convert more than 100% of the incoming photons.) You can't even get that .6x better than 82%, because that would require another 50% Q.E....or 131%.

All that matters in this particular area is total sensor area. So long as Canon does not make the 7D line use at least a FF sensor, it will never be able to "trounce" the 1D X in terms of equivalent IQ. In terms of reach, all that matters is how big the subject is reproduced on the sensor...in which case smaller pixels mean more detail, but total light gathered for your subject is roughly the same regardless of sensor.

7
Honestly they might as well have made it pink.  Would have sold more cameras to kids and women (generally speaking).  The firearms industry did that with amazing success.  Could have even sold it with a percentage to support breast cancer research.  All kinds of things they could have done.

... but white???

You guys in europe can keep it.

8
EOS Bodies / Re: EOS 7D Replacement Mentioned Again [CR1]
« on: April 17, 2014, 06:27:52 PM »
What's really sad is that I gave up waiting and bought at 1D X.  Not a decision I regret, but it was a lot more than I wanted to pay for an faster frame rate than the 5DIII.  The recent firmware upgrades have made it an amazing camera for wildlife photography and I'm curious to see if Canon adds some of those to the 7D II.  I also fear it will be a videographer's dream camera, which means zilch to me.

Zilch until your interest morphs and you take up wildlife videography.  ;)  I chose not to get a 1DX for a number of reasons but the number one was the shutter noise.  CPS loaned me one and in drive mode it pretty much scared away everything I was photographing unless I was in a noisy environment.  12 fps is useless if you scare away your subject on shot 1.

I chose the 5DIII and while the fps is lacking in some cases it does not give me away in my blind.  If I dont need the FPS, then silent mode keeps me undercover.  I hope the 7D2 offers a MUCH quieter drive mode shutter than the 1DX.  That might be the only show stopping thing for me.  Otherwise I am pretty much waiting for the pre-orders to start.

9
EOS Bodies / Re: EOS 7D Replacement Mentioned Again [CR1]
« on: April 17, 2014, 03:10:30 PM »
For this extremly long time waiting, my expectations are very high now.
The 7D replacement should be a real improvement, even better than the D7100, that was released more than a year ago.
If it will just be a 7D with flipscreen, touchscreen, wifi and dualpixels and the overall image quality and high ISO performace will be about same as the old one or only marginally improved.  That would be my last disappointment with canon.

You can get that now with the 70D...of which I was disappointed in.  The best feature they added was AFMA adjustment and that was something to be excited about for those coming in from a 60D or T series.

The 7DII will likely have a LOT of video features that will drive the price up.  I'm sure one thing we can ALL agree on is that we will be disappointed with the price they set as is with all of their new products.

10
I'm really thinking about trying this.

Is there now a better, straightforward, one stop to find it…guide to installing Magic Lantern on a 5D3?

Last time I started looking into it, I found out of date guides, wrong versions….and read through about 300 posts on the forums and I still didn't really feel safe in trying to install this.

So, does anyone have links to a simple at least fairly up to date install guide with steps laid out 1,2,3,4…n?

Last time I was reading through, I thought about disarming a bomb with instructions like.

"Ok, now…find and cut the green wire…"

BUT FIRST……

:D

C

It was pretty.straight forward now that the boot flag issue has been resolved.

1) set camera back to factory defaults
2) remove battery grip if installed.
3) format SD or CF card in camera
4) remove card and install in computer
5) download ML for 5diii and unzip all files into the root folder of card including the .fir file. (maintain same folder structure as supplied in the zip file)
6) insert card back into camera and install the firmware using the Canon firmware update menu option.
7) when prompted power off camera and power back on

Viola!

I haven't tried it yet but to permanently uninstall and revert the boot flag back to original just reformat the card with the uninstall ML option.

Im getting ready to upgrade to the latest ML version so ill give the uninstall option a try before i upgrade...though technically not necessary.  But im curious how seemless the uninstall is and wether or not it gives me back the improved wake up speed.

A minor correction to the uninstall process.  To uninstall you need to do the firmware install again, not a format.  However in very fine print at the bottom during the firmware install you will see a countdown timer to uninstall.  Takes about 30 seconds and then ML is gone from the system and boot flag gets disabled.

I can confirm NOW that uninstalling with bootflag disable does in fact remove the start up delay coming out of sleep.  Essentially the 5D3 is now back to factory specs.

This hopefully will provide some with nerve to try it knowing they can get back to factory specs if they choose to do so.

For me, I've downloaded the latest nightly build and getting ready to pop it back in again.

Will also be installing on my 7D and EOS-M today.  They finally got the .fir file back into the nightly build for the M.

11
Actually quite ingenious.  Using white body and lens reduces image noise created by environmental heat build up at the sensor.

;)

12
To which card do you download those files - CF, SD or it doesn't matter?  What happens if ML is on SD card and you shot pictures only on CF card? And then, if want to remove ML just take out SD card. Does it work like that?

You can put it on either card but i prefer to put it on my sd card and shoot with CF as primary.  You can remove the sd card and camera will operate in normal canon mode...but with a slight delay when waking from sleep.

13
I'm really thinking about trying this.

Is there now a better, straightforward, one stop to find it…guide to installing Magic Lantern on a 5D3?

Last time I started looking into it, I found out of date guides, wrong versions….and read through about 300 posts on the forums and I still didn't really feel safe in trying to install this.

So, does anyone have links to a simple at least fairly up to date install guide with steps laid out 1,2,3,4…n?

Last time I was reading through, I thought about disarming a bomb with instructions like.

"Ok, now…find and cut the green wire…"

BUT FIRST……

:D

C

It was pretty.straight forward now that the boot flag issue has been resolved.

1) set camera back to factory defaults
2) remove battery grip if installed.
3) format SD or CF card in camera
4) remove card and install in computer
5) download ML for 5diii and unzip all files into the root folder of card including the .fir file. (maintain same folder structure as supplied in the zip file)
6) insert card back into camera and install the firmware using the Canon firmware update menu option.
7) when prompted power off camera and power back on

Viola!

I haven't tried it yet but to permanently uninstall and revert the boot flag back to original just reformat the card with the uninstall ML option.

Im getting ready to upgrade to the latest ML version so ill give the uninstall option a try before i upgrade...though technically not necessary.  But im curious how seemless the uninstall is and wether or not it gives me back the improved wake up speed.

14

Does the slow start up time after sleep go away after you remove the ML from the camera?

I'd heard that was a problem with the former version on the 5D3….that it set the boot flag perm. and long sleep times wouldn't go away even when ML was removed.

I know on this they say the boot flag situation is fixed, but wondering if sleep/boot times return to normal once you remove ML?

Thanks in advance,
cayenne

My experience and testing with magiclantern-Nightly.2014Mar17.5D3123 (boot from the SD card, but images to the CF) showed about an extra second on cold startup (2.1 sec vs 1.2 sec) and about the same from an auto poweroff wake up.  For testing, I had AF and IS off, Manual, 1/500 shutter and pointing and prefocused at a timer.  Powered off the camera, held the shutter button and started the timer at the same time as turning on the camera.  Pretty acceptable in my book.   Most of the time, that's way faster than I am.  Hitting a button as I bring the camera up and it's ready by the time I'm looking through it.  The delay goes away if I pulled the SD card.    Prior to that version I was using the alpha3 and just booting it manually that took 5-10 seconds with the button pushing.  A bit of a pain, but workable.  Having it auto-boot now is just great!

Also, testing it with a non-ML SD card was the same as a pulled card -- no delay.  I expected this to hang the camera, but maybe that's only if the card was marked 'bootable' and non-ML that does that.

So far I'm pretty impressed by this version.  There are some rough edges which I get since it's listed as 'bleeding edge', but even for that, it seems pretty workable.   Not going crazy with the settings yet, but I'm comfortable with it shooting gigs.  The HDMI mirroring and external monitor support (from both 1.2.3 and ML) is such an improvement over alpha3!

Yeah i went back and did some analysis and yes the boot flag switch does introduce some startup delay even when ML is removed from the card slot.  So if that is important to you then you might want to reconsider ML.  Not sure how healthy it is to keep installing and uninstalling with boot flag toggle.

15
EOS Bodies / Re: EOS 7D Replacement Mentioned Again [CR1]
« on: April 11, 2014, 08:25:54 PM »
In less than 5 months, it'll be 5 years since the 7D was announced and nothing so far indicates that a 7D II will ever be released ... I've lost my interest in it and if it does get released, I most likely will not buy one.

And when it turns out to be the best camera in Canon's lineup from a <insertyourpreferredfeaturehere> (1D X excluded from comparison :P), you'll most definitely be interested again! :D

While it is pretty odd that the 7D replacement has taken so long to deamorphize, I don't think it will arrive and be a dud, either. The 7D was (is?) one of Canon's most popular cameras, and they have to know that there are very high expectations for it's replacement. While it's certainly a personal choice whether to buy one or not, to not buy one just because it hit the streets later than you wanted is hardly a good reason. ;P And I think it's interesting for the very fact that it's taking so long...it just....HAS to be GOOD! Right?!

It has to be better than the current 7d....so that would make it the best canon aps-c available...when it is available. Ive held out buying a 2nd 5diii.  As i see it, just waiting for the pre-orders to start.  ;)


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