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Messages - neuroanatomist

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ZIM…… He’s just a regular guy trying to do his best to destroy worlds, without the best of kit  :P


Lenses / Re: Can You Beat it?
« on: January 25, 2013, 04:59:36 PM » you need a 200mm lens?

The 200/2.8 II is a great lens, and a very good value.

Lenses / Re: 100-400L Version II ain't comin' either!
« on: January 25, 2013, 03:17:43 PM »
But just in case...if you're going to buy one now, consider used. I see them frequently on CL for ~$1,000 or a bit less.

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Best carry set-up for 7D & 70-200 f/2.8L
« on: January 25, 2013, 03:06:59 PM »
One thing I like about the Toploader Pro bags (and ThinkTank's equivalent) is that the bag sized for a big white zoom also holds two 'regular' lenses. For example, right now I've got a 135L in the bottom, a padded divider, then the 1D X with 24-105L mounted, and a 600EX-RT in a Quick Flex 75 pouch SlipLock'd to the side.

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 1DX Focusing Screen
« on: January 25, 2013, 02:11:24 PM »
The focus screen is user replaceable.  The stock screen that came with your camera is the EC-CV ($39, B&H link, not sure about local sources for you), and it comes with the little tool you need to swap them out.

The Ec-D (grid screen) will fit the 1D X, as well.

Insure your gear, make sure you read the policy and that it covers business use, applies world wide, and offers replacement value coverage.  That's question 3, but it should be step 1.   ;)

You might consider a hard case for your gear.  When I travel, I pack my camera gear in a Lowepro Flipside 300 or 400 AW, or a DSLR Video Fastpack 250 AW (depending on how much gear), and then I pack that loaded bag inside a Pelican Storm im2500 hard case, with a pair of TamperSeal TSA SearchAlert Extended Hasp locks along.  That way, I have the gear protected in case I'm forced to check the bag (late boarding or small regional planes with limited stowage), I have a secure case to lock up the gear in a hotel, and I still have an easy way to carry it around at my destination.

Welcome, and have a great trip!

Lenses / Re: Have 5D3, will shoot... but which lens?
« on: January 25, 2013, 01:05:06 PM »
If you didn't use the 8-16mm on APS-C because it was too wide, you may feel the same about the 17-40 on FF (although it's longer on the long end).  If you liked your 17-70, I'd really recommend the 24-105mm f/4L IS.  It's equivalent to a 15-65mm on APS-C, and as a kit lens with the 5DIII, it's an excellent value on a very versatile walkaround lens.

The comparison between a Sony WX150 and a 1Ds would most emphatically not be with a lens of the same focal length on each. The Sony lens has a focal length of about 4.5mm - 45mm. I've never even heard of a 4.5mm lens for EF mount.

I will repeat the topic at hand, one more time, please read carefully: Is Full Frame sharper than APS-C?  Does the Sony camera that you keep bringing up have an APS-C sensor in it?  If it does, we could discuss how to compare that camera's sensor to a Canon full frame sensor.  If it doesn't, such a test would be tangential, irrelevant, and yet another test that fails to answer the question being asked. Exactly like your test…

To be honest, this thread is starting to smell a lot like another recent thread, with the part of 'intransigent, insult-delivering antagonist' played by a different actor, only the insults are more frequent and rude and there's apparently not even the excuse of a language barrier in your case.  Accordingly, given that my normal limit is one such 'debate' per week, I'm done.   If it would help your ego to view this as a forfeit on my part, and you want to infer that means your inappropriate 'test' was somehow a properly relevant one, you go right ahead. 

干杯 (or gānbēi, if you can't read Mandarin - pinyin is easier to Google  ;) )

6549 test can't tell you how much sharper the larger format is, but it most emphatically does tell you that the larger format actually is sharper.

So do the ISO 12233 crop comparisons. That just goes to show that even a poorly designed experiment which includes both intentional biases (different lenses shot at different apertures) and unequal data manipulation (image scaling), can yield a correct result...

Lenses / Re: Advice..what lens
« on: January 25, 2013, 07:00:54 AM »
I'd get the 24-105L as a kit lens - it's the kit lens for very good reasons.

Lenses / Re: Marked focal lengths on zoom lenses
« on: January 25, 2013, 06:57:08 AM »
Use whatever zoom setting you want for the composition you want, the markings are irrelevant.

As to why the marked focal lengths are chosen, often they correspond to common prime lens focal lengths within the range.  For example, a 24-70mm lens might have intermediate marks for 35mm and 50mm, a 70-200mm lens might have intermediate markings for 100mm and 135mm.

Now, why are those the focal lengths of common primes in the first place (beyond historical accident)?  It's not completely coincidence. Look at the aperture 'scale' - 1.4, 2, 2.8, 4, 5.6, etc.  They increment by a factor of the square root of 2.  The common primes (with some exceptions) increment by the same approximate factor: 24, 35, 50, 70, 100, 135, 200.

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Best carry set-up for 7D & 70-200 f/2.8L
« on: January 25, 2013, 06:30:41 AM »
Lowepro Toploader Pro 75 AW as a dedicated bag.  Blackrapid strap (attached to the tripod foot) to carry around.

I cannot imagine a more pointless, unrealistic test. If your goal is to demonstrate a passion for creating the ultimate rig for imaging newspapers taped to brick walls, congratulations, you've succeeded. But if your goal was to demonstrate an understanding of actual photography as practiced by actual photographers....

Again, the test I performed resulted in two images with the same number of pixels in addition to the same perspective and depth of field and background magnification and out-of-focus blur and everything else a photographer cares about. The only variable was format size, and we saw that sharpness is very closely related to format size and not at all related to the number of pixels in the image. All your test demonstrates is that, if you ignore everything that actually defines what an image of anything other than a test chart looks like, you can get two systems with certain similar specifications to make similar images of a test chart and nothing else.

Therein lies your problem. Your test attempted to compare 'the same picture'.  You might have a point...if that were the goal. But we're not asking about 'everything that defines an image', we're asking about only one thing.  Let's revisit the title of this thread: Is FF sharper than APS-C?  Not 'does FF take a better picture'.  Yes, photographers care about 'better pictures' but that's not what's being asked here.  Only sharpness.  So in this case, taking pictures of a newspaper taped to a brick wall would be a far more appropriate test of the question than yours.

"The only variable was format size..."  Really?  Do you understand what a variable is?  Do you know the difference between a dependent variable and an independent variable, and how to tell when a dependent variable becomes a confounding variable?  You used different lenses to take the different pictures. You processed the images differently.  We call those confounding dependent variables.  Your test was not designed to answer the question, and therefore was flawed for the purpose at hand. 

"...the test I performed resulted in two images with the same number of pixels in addition to the same perspective and depth of field and background magnification and out-of-focus blur..." Guess what?  So did the TDP comparison I linked. Same number of pixels (but achieved without scaling), same effective perspective (indeterminate because the image has no depth), same effective depth of field (essentially none, as the entire subject is within it), same background magnification (none, no background), same OOF blur (none, everything in focus).  Unlike your test, the TDP ISO 12233 crop holds everything constant.  It's no accident they're called that - ISO 12233 is the "standard for measuring the resolution of electronic still imaging," and that's what we're talking about here...not 'better picture', sharpness.

An analogy: It's as if I asked, "What is the sodium content of french fries vs. carrot sticks?" Your test is trying to answer a question like 'which one tastes better?''  Yes, that's an important question for a person who wants a snack, but that's not what's being asked.  I'm looking for a chemical analysis of Na+ content, and you are conducting a blind taste test.  Interesting and informative, perhaps, but a complete fail as far as answering my question.

If you want to test the effect of sensor format on sharpness, you must hold everything else constant - especially the lens and the post processing. You varied both.  It's not that your test was invalid per se, but rather that it was not designed to address the question being asked.  Sharpness is just one component of picture quality, but again - that's the one we want to test.

Gee...I don't about getting the actual cameras and putting the same lens on each; changing position to achieve the same FoV; and making sure that all other factors (scene; lighting; aperture; shutter; settings) are equal, thereby isolating the difference you want to measure (sharpness)?  ::)

On second thought...nah...that's just crazy talk  ;D

Yes, that's crazy. Spectacular fail crazy.

Use the same lens on different formats and you get a different field of view. Change position and you get a different perspective in addition to a different field of view. Keep the aperture the same between different formats and you get different depth of field.

I was very specific in what I did and didn't change, and I did it for a reason. My test really was a true apples-to-apples comparison. The shooting position was the same, so the perspective was the same. The shutter speed was the same so the motion blur (not that there was any) was the same. The aperture was different, yes, but it resulted in the same depth of field. The ISO setting was different, yes, but it resulted in the same exposure -- and, unsurprisingly if you know the basics of photography, it resulted in basically the same amount of noise.

I thought at some point in this long, acrimonious thread, AlanF (but maybe someone else) commented that TrumpetPower had failed to isolate the relevant variable.  That's true - way to many differences in this 'test'.

"Spectacular fail crazy."  No, dtaylor is spot on.  I seem to recall that several pages back, TrumpetPower stated that the thing to do would be to use two sensors of the same MP count but different sizes, that's at least barking up the right tree, however, the 'test' didn't do that.

Evaluating sensor sharpness using two different lenses at different apertures? Scaling the resulting images? That's uber-spectacular quintuple-facepalm-type fail. 

TrumpetPower asked what the ideal test would be...first off, not his.  ::)  The solution is the one dtaylor suggested - two cameras, one FF, the other APS-C, with the same MP count.  Use the same lens, and change the distance to match the FoV. As for the objections of problems with changing distance resulting in different perspective and the same apertures resulting in different DoF on different formats, there's an obvious solution: a flat target, parallel to the sensor. That means no perspective to be altered (perspective alters the apparent distance relationship between subjects at different distances, but with a flat target the entire subject is at a fixed distance), and the flat target renders DoF moot.

So...two equal MP sensors of the same generation, a flat target framed identically, same lens for both (preferably a sharp one), same aperture.  Where, oh where, could one find such a test? How about here.

What's the conclusion?  Pretty much this:

...all other factors being equal...and I've always found the same thing: FF is sharper out of camera, but the range is small enough to be closed by bumping up sharpening in camera or post. When the sensors are otherwise comparable of course.

Is this a perfect test?  No - there's no such thing with the tools available. The AA filters are different (the 18 MP 7D fares much worse in the above TDP comparison than the T4i, for example, likely due to a stronger AA filter), the firmware is different, etc.  It's a test at one distance per camera, at some distances with some targets the Nyquist sampling issues raised by AlanF are a determining factor. It's a test at ISO 100 - at ISO 3200, the results would be quite different. 

Bottom line - the differences of opinion in this thread far exceed the real differences in sharpness between sensor formats, and the wagging tongues in this thread are sharper than my Wüsthof cutlery.   :P   

Over and out, for me.

Software & Accessories / Re: Rucksack Camera Bags
« on: January 24, 2013, 07:09:03 PM »
I'm debating between the 250 and the 350.  It's always hard to judge online - I recommend taking your gear into a shop if possible.  For example, the Flipside 300 isn't supposed to hold a gripped body, but it does. The Fastpack DSLR Video 250 states 'pro dSLR (without grip) and 24-70' but based on the stated depth a gripped body will fit - I just need to know if an attached 28-300L will fit, despite what the specs say, and if my 17" MBP will fit in the 'holds a 15" notebook' pocket (measurements say yes, reality may be different).

As I said, it's always hard to judge from specs online, but usually Lowepro overestimates the capacity (e.g. if they say body + 4-6 lenses, it means 3-5 lenses or less).  So, I took the camera, white zoom, and Mac into my local Hunt's to try the 250, and to my surprise, the 1D X fits fine (even with the RRS L-bracket), the mounted 28-300L is fine, there's room for two other lenses, and the 17" MBP fits in the laptop compartment, with room for my 13" MacBook Air to fit as well, if needed.  So, I walked out with the Lowepro DSLR Video Fastpack 250 AW.   :)

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