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Messages - pedro

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EOS Bodies - For Video / Re: 1D X - Clean HDMI out
« on: February 08, 2013, 10:14:11 AM »
I agree with your logics as well, given the fact that the 1Dx not only is a workhorse for press togs, as videography is becoming the "new" medium to do one's job. So I hope for every journalist out there, to get updated with this, as the 1Dx is almost double the price of a 5D3. "Crippling down" things in this sense would be an unhappy move.

EOS Bodies / Re: Big Megapixel Camera in 2014
« on: February 08, 2013, 09:32:17 AM »
@neuro, mikael: Thanks a lot. This helps for my better understanding!

EOS Bodies / Re: Big Megapixel Camera in 2014
« on: February 08, 2013, 05:52:52 AM »
Jrista wrote;  However, the current approach to ADC taken by all manufacturers except Sony.

There are Panasonic with row wise ADC as Sony   , there are Aptina and Toshiba with ADC at the sensor chip with different solutions. Every 10 row in Aptina sensor as one  example
Sony has no over all patens regarding row wise ADC at the sensors edge.

And about Canons 120Mp sensor  do you mean that Canon has ADC at the sensor chip

I am not talking about "row-wise" in general. I am talking quite explicitly about Sony's CP-ADC w/ Digital CDS, which is an ADC for every single column that performs a refresh readout, negative read and register for each pixel, then full sensor read on top of the negative registration to produce a near-noiseless image. THAT is the genius behind Exmor, and why it performs better than every other sensor on the market.

Row-wise ADC is not the same, as it is just a form of bucketed parallel readout. It still has the potential (and frequently realizes that potential) to produce banding. Canon also has patents for bucketed parallel on-die ADC readout. According the the patents I've read recently, it is not row-wise but clock wise. Not really sure how that affects read noise or banding (I suspect a light hatching is probably the result), but it isn't much different than row-wise on-die ADC.

There is  ways around different patents, and the results shows that in the new Toshiba/Nikon sensor in 5200 with 65% QE and very good S/N figures and DR 13,3 stops

This is what David Hull wrote in another discussion we had  about patents     
The original IBM patent: US-5877715

The More recent Sony Patent: US-7864094 B2

The CDS is the "Correlated Double Sampler" the point of this is that when you clear the photo diode prior to recording a new image all of them reset to a slightly different reference voltage. This difference needs to be taken into account and subtracted off prior to recording the image so that this residual “noise” does not become part of the picture. For this reason, so two samples are taken with the first being subtracted from the second. Canon uses a little capacitor to do this (an analog approach). Sony does it by counting DOWN the SAR (successive Approximation Register) counter during the first sampling phase and then counting UP from this reference when the real image is recorded. Both of these methods serve to subtract out the residual "noise" in the photo site. Sony gets this essentially for free with their column SAR architecture. Canon has a column ADC patent as well; I don't have the number handy for that one.

and this is from Bob Newman

If you're interested this is Canon's patent for the CDS mechanism that they use. And here is Canon's column ADC.
The More recent Sony Patent: US-7864094 B2
That patent covers the use of the column ADC to 'bin' multiple pixels in the row, rather than the count down/count up CDS method.

ONE thing is for sure: Canon makes no column wise ADC sensors, the Sony only integrates the ADC. Canon still uses off chip, Analog Devices ADC's. That's why they can't get the performance that Sony, Toshiba does. One of the reasons that they can't is because their process geometry, on the old line, is just too coarse.

@Mike Risedal: Thank you for sharing! I am not a tech and non-anglo as well. But do I understand correctly, that Sony sensors apply kind of a black frame ( as we do it in long exposures at night) to get rid of all the noise before ever a new photograph is taken? Well, this allows much more noise free high ISOs then...So, when is it likely that Canon apply a similar system? My 5D3 seems to be a good investment until they are able to present a similar solution. 8)

What if Canon simply ditched the 5D3's sensor and put the 6D's sensor in it? I mean, same body, same AF system, everything, but made all 5D3s with the 6D's sensor from now on... Same sensor size, same company... Is it feasible, on the technical side?
I also believe that the 5D3 will have a much shorter product cycle than the previous 5D-cameras. A replacement (the 5DX?) will most likely come sooner than later.

A shorter product cycle seems intresting. Can't wait to see the improvements in high ISO IQ. But I am sorry to say that, I'd be a bit of dissapointed if the 5D's were about to turn out to be the D800 equivalents. My 5D3 is too much of great allround cam at its MP count. I bought it especially because of its high ISO qualities. But anyway, as long as they maintain that or even improve it, why not? Hope they keep to M and S-Raw modes. Cheers, Pedro

Lenses / Re: IS or no IS?
« on: February 08, 2013, 02:47:42 AM »
I guess, IS at this range is a plus for video or handheld photography. But I do some photography using my Canon 70-200 2.8 non IS and get nice results at very low speed, sometimes below 1/200. As the 5D3 allows me to crank up the ISOs quite a bit there is some space for experiments...

EOS Bodies / Re: Cost of Canon 5D mk III
« on: February 08, 2013, 01:37:42 AM »
The 5D3 is worth every buck. Bought it last August. Great value even at the 3.5k back then...Or you sit it out and wait for the 5D3n as mentioned in current  the Big Megapixal main thread ;-)

EOS Bodies / Re: Recommend Cheap Second Body
« on: February 08, 2013, 01:35:27 AM »
6D ?  :)

EOS Bodies / Re: Big Megapixel Camera in 2014
« on: February 07, 2013, 11:13:37 PM »
"That could be solved with a parallel digital readout approach that applies digital noise reduction similar to Sony. If Canon solves the noise problem, they could easily have both quality high and quality low ISO performance."

I just hope it turns out like this. An 1Dx is out of range for me. Therefore I really like the 5D3 for my type of photography. It is a very versatile allround cam allowing me to shoot at extremly high ISOs in decent quality. But honestly: 22.3 MP are way enough for me!

EOS Bodies / Re: Big Megapixel Camera in 2014
« on: February 07, 2013, 11:32:26 AM »
A faster update? One suggestion from a known source is that Canon has loose plans to replace and/or update the EOS 5D Mark III quicker than the previous iterations.

Speculation:  The 7DII will have newer sensor technology.  The 6D has lower read noise than the 5DIII and the 1Dx has lower read noise than the 6D.  If the 7DII is even better, then the 5DIII will be looking very dated compared to the rest of the lineup in this area.  So they might want to put out a 5DIIIn or something with just a sensor update.

5DIIIn sounds intresting. So based on that tech the next "regular" replacement could benefit from an even more advanced sensor tech by sometime 2018. I wonder how much the initial price tag will rise related to these improvements compared to the 3.5k they asked for the original" 5D3... 8) Uh, but anyway the 5D3 will remain a very nice camera, did some low light AF tests yesterday and it was very snappy even at distant nightlights and some falling snow!

Lenses / Re: I can't stop thinking about A MONSTER!
« on: February 07, 2013, 10:20:31 AM »
You're 28.  You don't have a car.  How you gonna carry that thing to places to use it?

You're 28.  Take the money you'd use for the lens, invest it in your retirement future.  Trust me, trust everyone who tells you that.  Even a modest investment now, will give you financial freedom when you're older.  A good thing! (from one who lives it)

Rent the lens when the urge happens.


As a side note - there are places in the wilds, here in Florida, that I would not bring a long L lens without also bringing a handgun.  Just sayin'.... and its not for fear of alligators or bears, but for getting robbed.  Its happened.

A very sound advice. Depends on what you are aiming at. I have a 70-200 2.8 non IS. Sure, I am doing nightphotography/nightscapes. That is more WA-stuff. So according to my type of photography, I'd opt for a lens rental...Ask Canon Guy ;-)

EOS Bodies / Re: Big Megapixel Camera in 2014
« on: February 07, 2013, 10:09:32 AM »
Don't understand all the tech. But the current process seems promising. Will an updated 5D body (next cycle? 5DX?) provide the same high ISO IQ as my 5D3 does by now or will it be even improved although the MP count will be much higher? So, is Canon drifting away from its' 20-22 MP scheme due to much more improved senor tech? I for myself would like them to stay at these MP levels...Or will a 36+ MP sensor yield the same results as a current 22MP sensor? If they don't remain within this MP count, could the 6D type bodies possibly take the 20 MP sensor niche held by the 5Ds? Anyone? Cheers, Pedro

EOS Bodies / Re: 1DX - The Workhorse?
« on: February 05, 2013, 03:14:05 AM »
So I was reading the rumor on Canon's roadmap for 2013 and got me to thinking...  Is the 1DX really Canon's workhorse?

I'm a beginning fashion and beauty photographer that is working to get bigger and higher profile jobs.  I currently have a 5D Mark II which has served me quite well for many things in this arena.  However it's not as great an all-arounder that I would like for my non-fashion jobs which helps circulate my name and get me some additional income.

The 5D Mark III is a great camera.  But the lack of a user-replaceable focus-screen and no pro body is a downside.  It's fast enough and the AF is more than adequate.  But not sure if it's something I would be happy with for 4 or more years.  Which is what I expect from a pro camera.

The 1DX is what I want except that it doesn't have the higher MP of the 5D series.  Well, I was a little disappointed when it didn't have built-in WiFi...  But overall, it's pretty darn nice.  The way I look at it, as long as I have the appropriate lens, it can pretty much handle anything I throw at it.  Which would allow me to take more jobs that I know technical limitations won't be an issue.

However, I'm a little concerned about the 18MP.  For publication in large format magazines, I think 18MP would still be fine.  For fashion and beauty, is there a big advantage to go with 22MP?  The only step-up I see would be Medium Format which I don't see a need for at least a couple of years.  How much of an advantage would that be over a 1DX/5D3 in the fashion/beauty markets?

You don't have to be concerned. An 8 MP nighscape shot by my 30D was blown up and put on the aluminium body of 20 ton transporter in Switzerland...So no problem with 18 MP either.

Lenses / Re: 16-35 f/2.8II vs 17-40 f/4
« on: February 02, 2013, 04:49:47 AM »
Take it from me.  I've been shooting Canon DSLRs since 2006 and have owned two 16-35 2.8 IIs, and probably half a dozen 17-40Ls over time shot on full frame 5D mark I and Mark II bodies as well as Rebels and a 40D.

The 17-40L and 16-35LII are optically Canon's best ultra-wide zooms.  They both perform equally as far as sharpness goes and both look identical stopped down.  (the photo on the front page of my site was shot with the 17-40 and 5D2 and even at 1900 px wide, that image is super sharp corner to corner.  Shot at F/22 too!

The 16-35 Mark II  shines obviously in low light and wide open is SUPER SUPER sharp in the center (excellent for casual/fun portraits) it's just a JOY to use in ALL situations whereas the 17-40L is a joy to use in SOME situations.  the 17-40L is softish wide open especially in the corners.  the 16-35LII shows excellent center sharpness wide open and good in the corners. 

Is it worth the extra 7-800 bucks?  YES YES YES.  I am so happy with my 16-35L II and it's going to stay with me likely forever.
Thanks a lot for this mini field review. Although my signature still says something else, reading these things I can imagine to go for the 16-35 instead of waiting on a phantom. As I do low light photography wide open,  your experience is crucial for me. So I better burn an additional US $ 280.00 for a 10 stop ND filter instead of a 1000 more for a highly priced WA-zoom that doesn't even exist  8) Your insightful post is highly appreciated. Cheers, Pedro.

EOS Bodies / Re: Canon Confirms 70D; Future of Semi-Pro DSLR is FF
« on: February 01, 2013, 09:50:01 AM »
Hi CR folks

I think people should not be reading more into what Masaya said than what he ACTUALLY said.  Remember, the unquoted parts of that interview are simply DPReview's 'take' on it... nothing more (and nothing less, I have respect for DPReview). Quite a bit of what is written in this post assumes incorrectly.

What Masaya actually said about 70D and/or 7DmkII in the interview is very little, and not concrete about those models nor related to the possibility of which models will still be produced, and when, etc, but rather he is talking about market segmentation.   ???

So, careful and critical reading and analysis of what Masaya said specifically regarding APS-C and 70D / 7DmkII is  required.  His words are in bold in this part of that link / article, which I'm copying & highlighting below:

DPR: ... the future of APS-C at the semi-pro level is in doubt, he says:
'That's something we're considering at the moment. From our semi-pro users there's still demand for APS-C but in the future, I think we will see an increase in the number of full-frame models.'
DPR: Either way, that doesn't close the door on an EOS 70D though - when asked when we can expect one, Maeda promises: 'some day in the future. Without fail.

I'm a manager in the Australian Government, and part of my job is to write very specific documentation / policy and to read critically. (I'm not trying to boast, just applying some of my skills here).

So, my take on what Masaya actually says is as follows:
- Canon realises a significant proportion of semi-pros currently demand APS-C
- In the future, Canon believes there will possibly be more demand from semi-pros for FF
- That doesn't mean some or many semi-pros will still want / prefer / need / demand an APS-C
- Which in turn means that Canon needs to determine how to market future models like 70D and 7DmkII
- the feature set and segment positioning of the 70D (& 7DmkII) might be quite determined by the 700D / entry level Canon APS-C DLSRs
- A 7DmkII is still likely on the cards. I think planning, research & development of the 7DmkII has happened some years ago, and R&D are being finalised soon - then ready for production (nowhere does Masaya hint that a 7DmkII is off the cards)
- the 7D has been a popular and long-living successful camera for Canon (ie good profit). I think Canon realise if they create another successful, and perhaps 'noticably improved in some aspects' 7DmkII, they can get a lot of mileage out of it, that is: good profit again.
- Canon is smart and would be very conscious about brand loyalty, and if they remove a 'top of the line APS-C, while the competition offer good top of the line APS-C sized DSLRs, then some folk who don't want to (or can't afford) the jump to FF, may go to other brands.
- equivalent FF lenses are often significantly more expensive than APS-C (when I write 'equivalent' - I mainly mean in terms of 'effective' focal length. (I do realise there are many other aspects to be considered than focal length, but I don't want to write pages here on that!)

Well... feel free to comment on what I've written and determined from the interview!

Totally apart from DPReview's interview - I believe we'll see some high level APS-C cameras.  There are serious Canon EF-S lenses (eg 15-85mm, 17-55mm, 10-22mm, 60mm macro, etc) and many EF lenses (eg 70-300mm L, 100mm macro, etc) that just work so well on APS-C too!

Cheers and regards. Wishing all a wonderful weekend... it's Friday evening here in Australia! YAY!!   8)

thanks pj for these informations and your hermeneutics on it. So what Canon could do with a 7DII is to equip it with the 6Ds FF sensor and built in 1.6 crop mode, improve the weather sealing and they're done. Anyone?

EOS Bodies / Re: Big megapixel camera?
« on: January 31, 2013, 03:41:12 AM »

I sure hope that they price the big MP camera is priced in line with the D800.  At $8-10K, it may be worth my while to switch.

I kind of doubt that because that is the 5D MIII price range, if they did then they would have to dumb down the features in order to not have the two compete with each other which I don't see Canon doing.  I wouldn't be surprised to see it possibly fall between the 5D MIII and the 1DX with the large MP but the specs of the 5D MIII.

+1. I am not in the high MP segment. The 5D3 is far enough for me in any area. But I would consider a high MP body to slip into that gap. US $ 4.5K? Equipped with that recently posted sensor tech patent  to improve IQ as they are cramming more pixels on it. It was a 7DII related post. But it could apply to these musings as well.

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