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Messages - nolken

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EOS Bodies / Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Spec List [CR2]
« on: February 19, 2013, 11:15:24 AM »
ISO Performance to get close to the 5D3

The rest of the spec list looks pretty darn good, but I'll believe the line about ISO performance when I see RAW files.  But then again, in marketing speak 'close to the 5D3' might mean simply that the native range is 100-12800 (which is 'close to' the 100-25600 native range of the 5DIII and a 1-stop improvement on the 7D spec).  Many times, Canon's statements about ISO performance improvements refer to JPG images or ISO range, not noise levels at a given ISO setting.

I agree completely. I was thinking the exact same thing as far as the marketing strategy is concerned. It would not surprise me one bit. I can't imagine the 7D mark II having comparable noise at the same ISO speed as the 5D mark III.

The idea of overheating is very much over exaggerated.
The overheating issue is claimed to be prevalent on the 7D more than the 60D. This is speculated to be caused by the dual digic and/or the fixed screen, but I have no idea to what extend the issue has been exaggerated.
Another thing about magic lantern, is that the 60D is the only body that makes full use of every ML feature. The 7D is still in alpha... You'll have to wait quite awhile before the port is finished.
True, the 7D port is still alpha, but alpha 2 was just released a month ago and from what I understand, all of the important features work now.(ML still has to be manually loaded though).
On top of that, I think that the final release is close seeing as the ML team recently aquired a few much anticipated tools for dealing with the dual-digic (dual-digic is what makes the 7D harder to hack)
I only just saw the alpha 2 yesterday and that (plus the assumption that overheating is a non-issue until you do very intensive shoots) has helped to make my choice of the 7D.

Unlike the OP, I do both Video, Stills, Time-lapse and stop-motion, so for me, in the end, the 7D seems to be a no-brainer.

I do actually do stills quite often. actually more often than video. I just don't make money with my stills.

I agree that the magic lantern alpha 2 is working wonderfully. All the important features to me work great.

Currently I'm about 95% leaning toward the 7D. I almost exclusively use an external monitor for studio shots, and I don't think the 60D's 480 out is going to cut it. The more I think about it, the more I am in favor of keeping the 7D.
Yeah, really no reason to swap then. If anything, you should be looking towards the 5d3 or BMCC as a future option
Those options are definitely in my future, I just don't know when. That was one of the only reasons I was going to go with the 60D over the 7D. My thought was that since I am planning on getting a FF body in the upcoming future, should I just save the money. Sense I don't know when that will be, I'm just going to stick with the 7D more than likely. The uncompressed HDMI out firmware update coming april to the 5D mark III is something to seriously look forward for video.

Currently I'm about 95% leaning toward the 7D. I almost exclusively use an external monitor for studio shots, and I don't think the 60D's 480 out is going to cut it. The more I think about it, the more I am in favor of keeping the 7D.

I thought that the 60D was rated for 100k Clicks and the 7D for 150K?

this is true.

If you really wanted to get rid of your 7D and save some cash in the process. Why not get a 50D instead of a 60D. Some say the 50D is the better camera and it has AFMA, but no video unless you use ML.

the 50D doesn't have video.

Like I said in my post, the 50D does have video but you have to use ML (magic lantern) to get it. But overall the 50D is a better camera than the 60D, and has some benefits such as the sealing, body and AFMA etc.

Plus, I would imagine they are very cheap right now.

oh ha i see it now, i skipped the "but no video"" part. I didn't know the 50D was capable of video with ML

Do you really think it will drop that much in price if the mk2 is priced so aggressively?
Was just about to pull the trigger on it and then it actually went UP in price this week.. sheesh :)
Then a friend started ranting about the chance of overheating the 7D during long video takes and the uncertainty concerning full functional ML release and thus I am back in the cursed state of mind, similar to the OP...
7D (AF-selector, build, HDMI-out, C1,2,3 for video, slightly bigger VF, AFMA, chance of overheating) vs 60D (Price, articulated LCD, ML) Meh :)

I have been experimenting with the magic lantern alpha build for 7d, and i must say it is very promising. all of the features that i find most useful are working wonderfully. There is even some talk about the chances of a clean HDMI out. only problem is i have to re-load it every time the viewfinder shuts off. this is purposely done by the magic lantern team because they don't want to modify the boot flag for an alpha version.

If you really wanted to get rid of your 7D and save some cash in the process. Why not get a 50D instead of a 60D. Some say the 50D is the better camera and it has AFMA, but no video unless you use ML.

the 50D doesn't have video.

I seriously doubt that the 7D will drop that low in price.

The 5D mark ii was introduced at $2699. It now has a MSRP of $2199. That is a 18.53% price drop.
The 7D was introduced at $1699. It now has a MSRP of $1399. That is a 17.66% price drop.
That is pretty close. We all know how business like to follow patterns. They probably did their market research and determined these are the appropriate deprecation values.

The 5D mark ii now has a rebate of $400. That gives you a 33.35% Total price drop.
The increase in saving percentage for the 5D mark ii MSRP to the price minus rebate is 180.0%

If the 7D is to follow the same pattern:
A 180.0% increase from 17.66 is 31.79%. That would drop the price minus rebate to $1159. We know the 7D's MSRP will not change again, so that only leaves the rebate to change. My guess is that the rebate will either stay the same or increase to $300 leaving the price minus rebate to $1099. I can't imagine it going lower than that new.

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: New MFA method
« on: February 11, 2013, 01:43:55 AM »
Sounds like this would be a good Magic Lantern implementation.

Keep the 7D. You wouldn't order a meal in a restaurant and send it back if it turns out to be exactly what you expected, would you?

That is different. The restaurant will lose money on that, and the meal that was sent back can't be re-sold. The camera, on the other hand, will get shipped back to Canon and sold as a refurbished camera. The store I purchased it from will not be loosing money. Neither will Canon. I'll still be buying the 60D from them, not the mention the thousands of dollars I spend at the retailer every year. Also the money I saved will more than likely be re-spent at that retailer.

Needless to say I don't think they will care that much.

No doubt, AFMA is and will be invaluable especially if you have or add fast glass in the future...I think you might have just answered your own question here.  Good luck

the ONLY reason I may consider not worrying about the AFMA is because it is a crop with a wider DoF and The body I choose now will eventually be my backup body to one that will surely have AFMA, most likely the 5Dmiii. If I didn't plan on upgrading to FF eventually I wouldn't even consider the 60D.

as far as price difference after selling the 7D, I wouldn't be selling the 7D. I would be returning it. I've only had it a couple of weeks.

Well money isn't really tight per say, but I'm not loaded either.

I do feel i'm pretty set for the time being as far as glass goes. I actually have exactly what trygved suggested minus the 5D mark iii. A 24-105L and some fast primes. I do not own any EF-S glass because I do anticipate going to FF. Just not now. I want to have gotten a couple of paid gigs before I go for the 5D mark iii. Right now the investment is not a wise one because of the uncertainty. Low-Light performance is relatively a non-issue for me. I pretty much never shoot anything in a non-staged scene, even with photography. And with photography when I do shoot non-staged I don't really mind using a flash or cranking up the ISO a bit. I'm not a wedding photographer.

for lighting I mainly have a pair of Arri 650w fresnels for key lighting and I have several extra cheaper lights for fill lighting. I'm considering a 3rd Arri, but that is not necessary at the moment.

For audio i have countryman wired lavalier mics and an AT897. Since I rarely shoot run and gun, I usually run it into a usb recording interface connected to my Macbook Pro. I believe audio is the biggest place I'm lacking, but what I have sounds nice and if I need a wireless G3 I will rent one. I've never yet found I've needed something else, but of course that will change as I broaden my clientele. I will be picking up some more mics as I need them for a gig.

I do all my PP on my Macbook pro quad core i7 with 16GB of ram. I haven't yet, but I do plan to remove the CD drive and replace it with a with a second HD in a RAID 0 configuration with the other. I use Premiere Pro & After Effects CS5 Premiere pro runs great, After effects runs good but not great due to my 512mb video card that is non-CUDA.

I have a Manfrotto 502HD head with 546b Legs. I do also have a jib that I like to use mounted directly to the legs.

I'm not one to buy on anticipation. If I need a mic or light for a shoot I'm doing I'll either rent or buy based on my predicted need for the future. I'm actually not really concerned with depreciation, as they will both depreciate even more when the 70D/7D come out. I do think the 60D will depreciate more.

I'm confident rather I use a 5D/7D/60D/T4i. Those are just tools. I can hammer a nail with a sledge hammer or with a hammer, it doesn't matter to me.

I understand my needs may be different than yours. I'm curious as to what YOU would do. Not necessarilly what I should do, but what you would do. Background:

I consider myself an advanced amateur. I originally had a 60D, but sold it at the beginning of last semester to focus more on school (and knowing that the body would inevitably experience a price drop soon. Glad I sold it when I did!). I thought I could live without for a year, but I couldn't take it anymore and I bought the 7D a couple of weeks ago for $1030. Now I can get the 60D for $560. That makes the 7D an extra $470, or 84% more. I don't do sports photography or BIF. The closes thing to fast moving is my kids playing, so I don't really need the 7D AF. Before I sold the 60D, I was doing some smaller paid video gigs. I would like to take that to the next level. I would like to do TV commercials for local companies and product advertising videos as well as what I was previously doing. I live in a small(er) town, and the ONLY competition is the local cable company who makes horrendous commercials. One concern of mine, Is it unprofessional to take a 60D to a shoot? Like I said, I only did smaller paid gigs, and nobody really knew anything about my gear. I was still a bit self conscious bringing my 60D, even on the smaller gigs. I did keep all my other video equipment when I sold the body since all the other items don't lose value so fast.

Why I would keep the 7D:
  • 1080 HDMI output durring recording. This is pretty important to me, but alone doesn't quite justify the extra $470. Almost though because the screen going black on the 60D upon pressing record is incredibly annoying.
  • Magnesium alloy body. For obvious reasons over the 60D's polycarbonate. This, however, isn't as big of a deal, as the 60D's body is still good.
  • The 7D will have a better resale value. Again, though, this isn't as important as I can't really see myself selling it in the near future. Upon purchase of my next body, the 7D/60D will become my back-up.
  • The AFMA and better AF of the 7D will be invaluable IF I end up actually needing that in the future. IF.
  • It looks good in my hands

Why I would exchange the 7D for the 60D?

So, what would you do personally if you were trying to decide between the 60D and the 7D? And, I suppose, what would you do in my situation?

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