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Messages - J.R.

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541
Canon General / Re: Benefits of a mirrorless FF?
« on: October 23, 2013, 05:34:14 AM »
Benefits of a mirrorless FF?

+ all IQ benefits of FF sensor = technically better images in any shooting situation (except Macro); more appealing pictures when shallow DOF is advantageous (e.g. often in portraiture)
+ significantly smaller and lighter than FF DSLR = easier to take along and to travel = more pictures at interesting places
+ significantly smaller and lighter than FF DSLR = less conspicuos = more and better images in any "non-staged" shooting situation
+ significantly cheaper to produce and service than any DSLR = = more profit for manufacturer and/or lower cost to customers
+ no mirror slap, less or no vibration = more sharp keepers, especially in tough shooting conditions/low light
+ no mirror = shorter / no viewfinder blackout possible
+ silent operation at full speed possible (with silent shutter; unfortunately not A7R) = huge advantage in noise-sensitive shooting conditions
+ no hard-to-clean oil-debris-splatter on sensor from flapping mirror mechanism (-> Nikon D600)
+ EVF better than any OVF (soon to come) - all shooting relevant information overlayed, camera can stay on eye and image displayed exactly as it will be captured = better images, more often capture "at decisive moment"
+ shorter flange back = use of almost any previous lens via adapter possible (but not always with good results)
+ AF performance inclduing tracking moving subjects will surpass capabilities of today's best DSLRs (soon), because no mirror in lightpath = more keeper action shots

Disadvantages:
- new lenses needed for optimal image quality and system performance, with less bulk and weight
- operation with 600/4 lens still requires sturdy tripod for optimal results
:-)

Agree with most of the above but what you refer to as "coming soon" is a good bit of conjecture - but who knows, technology changes faster than we expect. However, absence of exceptional AF, the limitations of EVF and a lack of dedicated ML lenses are a potential deal breaker for most (including me).  For the moment,  DSLRs are still more functional.

Also,  I'm not convinced that when all this is made available, the price of the FF mirrorless will remain the same.

 

542
Canon General / Re: Benefits of a mirrorless FF?
« on: October 23, 2013, 05:25:55 AM »
Hi,

I do photography for a hobby and am not too updated on the technical aspects of the latest lineup of cameras  these days.

I'm just wondering as to what exactly are the benefits of a mirrorless FF? The only benefit to my mind is a shaving off of approximately 600-800 grams from the bodyweight. And yes, maybe with a dedicated lens lineup, a bit more.

Thoughts?

Cheers ... J.R.
Suprisingly few benefits and a lot of take-aways.
 
Weight- no major reduction, the lenses are as big and heavy as ever, a FF requires big lenses.
 
EVF - most of us hate them, but they are getting better.
 
Autofocus - slow and slower.  Tracking  - forget it.
 
The main benefit is the elimination of the moving mirror, but it comes with a loss of capabilities.

Agree, I would add it is not as durable as dslr

Agree.  What about weather sealing? Adapters + third party lenses + swivel screens

543
Canon General / Re: Benefits of a mirrorless FF?
« on: October 23, 2013, 05:23:54 AM »
Hi,

I do photography for a hobby and am not too updated on the technical aspects of the latest lineup of cameras  these days.

I'm just wondering as to what exactly are the benefits of a mirrorless FF? The only benefit to my mind is a shaving off of approximately 600-800 grams from the bodyweight. And yes, maybe with a dedicated lens lineup, a bit more.

Thoughts?

Cheers ... J.R.
Suprisingly few benefits and a lot of take-aways.
 
Weight- no major reduction, the lenses are as big and heavy as ever, a FF requires big lenses.
 
EVF - most of us hate them, but they are getting better.
 
Autofocus - slow and slower.  Tracking  - forget it.
 
The main benefit is the elimination of the moving mirror, but it comes with a loss of capabilities.

Agree, I would add it is not as durable as dslr

I wonder ::)... have you guys ever hand-on or shoot with RX1 before?

I have...  IQ was great but the AF performance left a lot to be desired.

Lens on the RX1 is light enough but I come to interchangeable lenses, esp zoom, they will be heavy.

544
Canon General / Re: Benefits of a mirrorless FF?
« on: October 23, 2013, 05:19:54 AM »
Hi,

I do photography for a hobby and am not too updated on the technical aspects of the latest lineup of cameras  these days.

I'm just wondering as to what exactly are the benefits of a mirrorless FF? The only benefit to my mind is a shaving off of approximately 600-800 grams from the bodyweight. And yes, maybe with a dedicated lens lineup, a bit more.

Thoughts?

Cheers ... J.R.
Suprisingly few benefits and a lot of take-aways.
 
Weight- no major reduction, the lenses are as big and heavy as ever, a FF requires big lenses.
 
EVF - most of us hate them, but they are getting better.
 
Autofocus - slow and slower.  Tracking  - forget it.
 
The main benefit is the elimination of the moving mirror, but it comes with a loss of capabilities.

Agree...  It's still a work in progress at best.  The mirrorless cameras need to evolve much more to replace DSLRs.

545
Canon General / Re: Benefits of a mirrorless FF?
« on: October 23, 2013, 04:37:02 AM »
One benefit would be is that there would be no slapping mirror.  This makes the camera more stabilized and well, smaller.

You can achieve the same on a DSLR by shooting live view (even though I fail to see what would be the point a DSLR to only shoot LV :) )

And AF is much slower in live view.  The 70D just made it decent enough but it's still a slowpoke compared to non-LV AF.

You could AF faster in live view using the quick mode.

546
Canon General / Re: Benefits of a mirrorless FF?
« on: October 23, 2013, 04:35:58 AM »
Whether or not it is a cropped sensor or 35mm format does not matter in regard to 'benefits' of a mirrorless camera.

List of mirrorless benefits:
Access to mount/use just about any lens ever made.
-End of list:


Just about everything else involved with mirrorless cameras is a work around or detriment, sorry..

HaHa.

I'm someone who doesn't agree with the use of adapters on high MP bodies given the inherent issues while using adapters so for me it is not a substantial benefit. Ok, if you have some idle glass which has compatability issues, you may be able to use it.

As I mentioned in my original post, the major benefit remains smaller form factor and weight.

547
Canon General / Re: Benefits of a mirrorless FF?
« on: October 23, 2013, 04:32:18 AM »
FF mirrorless advantages:
great lens adaptability (including rangefinder optics);
EVF (yes it does have many advantages over OVF);
manual focus (EVF + focus peaking);
easier sensor cleaning procedure;
no mirror - less vibration, longer life;
size and weight;
lower price (than FF DSLR);
perfect for landscape, portrait, macro, astro and video.

Many consider EVF to be a disadvantage;
For focus peaking - look no further than ML;
The 5D3 is rated for 150,000 shutter actuations - for me (not for all) it is life enough  ;)
size and weight - agree
lower price - agree
depending on the lenses agree with the last statement.

548
Canon General / Re: Benefits of a mirrorless FF?
« on: October 23, 2013, 04:27:10 AM »

Others mentioned not having to deal with mirror slap, but that is very minor issue and can be easily handled via mirror lock-up for shots where it causes problems.  Also, the mirror helps protect the sensor from dust. 


Agreed. With most DSLRs you can simply shift to live-view which makes the mirror slap irrelevant.


I strongly prefer OVF's over the latest EVF's (I've tried the latest Sony and Leica ones).  At some point EVF's may evolve to where they are as good or better than OVF's, but they are not that close yet.

I have never used EVFs. Do they work well when you are tracking moving subjects in changing lighting conditions?

549
Canon General / Re: Benefits of a mirrorless FF?
« on: October 23, 2013, 04:22:47 AM »

After using them for decades, I don't mind manual focus lenses (I even prefer them, at times), and I hope there isn't a mass market for the old stuff.  In fact, I wish people were less interested in it...especially C/Y Zeiss.


Manual focus lenses on digital cameras are okay for landscape photos where you can shift to live-view and take your time focusing. For shooting any sort of action they make me cringe.

550
Canon General / Re: Benefits of a mirrorless FF?
« on: October 23, 2013, 04:20:34 AM »
Though I have never used one, I always wonder how is the dust issue on mirrorless
since there is no shutter/mirror to seal it when changing lenses

I've thought about it but don't seem to agree that there will be too much of a difference. Most of the dust which settles on the mirror gets redistributed when the mirror whacks about when the shots are taken. All depends on how good the in-built sensor mechanism would be.

551
Canon General / Re: Benefits of a mirrorless FF?
« on: October 23, 2013, 04:18:29 AM »
Well if you go with the new Sony you will save a ton on lens......because there aren't any.

They do seem to have an ambitious plan with zeiss, but the lenses are slower compared to Canon / Nikon which have multiple variants for the same FL.

Nevertheless, there is a difference in a zeiss lens and a zeiss branded lens. Sony has been using zeiss branded lenses for a while now and I'm not too sure which one is the real outstanding one.

552
Canon General / Re: Benefits of a mirrorless FF?
« on: October 23, 2013, 04:16:34 AM »

And what incentive would Canon have to produce a body that gives new life to the secondary market of used FD lenses?

None whatsoever - Canon didn't even consider making an adapter (which is getting the wows from the mirrorless crowd) for the FD lenses  ;)

553
Canon General / Re: Benefits of a mirrorless FF?
« on: October 23, 2013, 04:13:48 AM »
I'm just wondering as to what exactly are the benefits of a mirrorless FF?

One of the most appealing aspects of the full-frame mirrorless (as far as I have read, anyhow) is that you can essentially use any manual full-frame lens ever produced, SLR or rangefinder, via adapter.  (Admittedly, you can do this on APS-C as well, but now your hyperfocal marks would all be accurate!)


I'm not too sure how this will work out in the long run. Adapters have their own issues which will be more apparent once you get into high MP cameras. The problem is compounded with FF cameras where corner sharpness while using an adapter suffers.

If adapters had no downsides at all, you wouldn't find Canon users yearning for a 14-24 - they would have simply purchased the Nikon 14-24 with an adapter - I know a few who use this combination but they would still like to have a native lens because the IQ is not as good as it can be.

554
Canon General / Re: Benefits of a mirrorless FF?
« on: October 23, 2013, 04:08:11 AM »

I feel if you got into mirrorless system, pls buy some native lenses with it. I'm not trying to open another debate, but I just don't see the point buying mirrorless system + L lenses. I clearly understood the points using as backup, not get into another set of lenses etc...but mirrorless + L lenses will take away the purpose of mirrorless. I rather get another DSLR as a backup if that is the case.


Agreed. I've been wondering how the balance would be if I were to use a 400 gm body with the 70-200 II

555
Canon plz we are waiting omg omg omg omg omg omg

Haha ... I though am not too keen on the A7R. This MP monster will need the best of the best lenses and exceptionally good shooting technique. A tripod may also be necessary which makes the smaller form factor irrelevant. It could very well end up like the D-800E with users as frustrated and emotional as the lady in your photograph  ;D

I'm not too sure you'll be able to extract the best out of the A7R with lenses that are used with adapters. The use of an adapter will deteriorate lens performance which, even if very slight, will result in a hit on the IQ. Unless Sony matches these cameras with exceptional native lenses, I don't see the A7R going anywhere.

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