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Messages - AvTvM

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EOS Bodies / Re: Will Canon Answer the D4s? [CR2]
« on: February 08, 2014, 12:35:56 PM »
I'd be more worried about your market size.   :P

don't worry. All the cameras in my dreams are really great. None of them is marketing-crippled. They'll sell like hot-cakes.  8)

EOS Bodies / Re: Will Canon Answer the D4s? [CR2]
« on: February 07, 2014, 04:51:25 PM »
actually, I AM dreaming of starting a REALLY RIGHT digital camera company. :-)

Design of the product lineup and selling it would be really easy. Sourcing of components is what concerns me.

PowerShot / Re: What to Expect From Canon For CP+ Next Week
« on: February 07, 2014, 02:10:47 PM »
thanks, but no thanks. Kind of fun to watch Canon going down the drain with all that crap.

EOS Bodies / Re: Will Canon Answer the D4s? [CR2]
« on: February 06, 2014, 01:59:40 PM »
+1, bingo!  The A7R should have satisfied most of the requirements of his earlier lists,

it did. MOST of my requirements. But not all of them. No 500+ shot on a battery charge. No in-body stabilizer. No silent shutter. No vibration-free shutter. No really good AF. Unfortunately. 

and yet he is still using his 7D in place of the A7R.  There is a large IQ gap between the 7D and the current FF offerings, and yet he still won't switch...

Sensor IQ is only one thing in a camera, as Neuro and almost everybody else in this thread will be happy to tell you. :-)

However, I may still get an A7 or A7R with the 24-70 Sony-Zeiss. But first the lens has to become available where I live. ;-)

EOS Bodies / Re: Will Canon Answer the D4s? [CR2]
« on: February 05, 2014, 04:17:31 PM »
The 6D further improved on the 5D2, yet you don't give it any respect.  You're biased, that's all.

Sure, it further improved the IQ a bit, which was already excellent on the 5DII.  It improved the metering, too.  It didn't significantly improve the AF or frame rate, which were the 5DII's biggest deficits.  The 6D has a less robust shutter with a 1-stop lower max speed, slower Xsync, and a shorter rated lifespan. The 6D has a substantially longer shutter lag.  So considering IQ only, the 6D improved on the 5DII, but overall it's a mixed bag.  The 5DIII improved on the 5DII in pretty much every way.  At least on Amazon (not that it means much) the 5DIII is outselling the 6D.

The 6D's biggest 'feature' is its lower cost. 

Of course, AvTvM might say the 6D is not 'dated' because it has WiFi.  Nice if you want to upload your JPGs to Facebook on the fly, I suppose.  I thought it would be great for remote triggering, but someone pointed out that after a short time the connection drops, and you have to physically access the 6D to reactivate the link - that severely limits the utility, IMO (the WFT options for other bodies aren't limited in that way, but you pay a big premium for them).

I consider
* 5D III = 5D IIN
* 6D = 5D II v1.1

6D basically is a FF digital rebel to me. Marekting crippled product with a reasonable sensor and Wifi. About equally bad as Nikon D610, but better than D600, since it did not do splatter movies with its mirror. :-)

+ the a7 with 24-70 f/4 lens (arriving on Sunday)

oh, excellent! please let us know how well (or not) it performs, once you had a chance to put it through its paces. IQ, AF, etc. - plus size-comparison pic vs. EF 50/1.4 that most of us are familiar with ... maybe in a separate thread, to make it easier to find. Thanks!  8)

EOS Bodies / Re: Will Canon Answer the D4s? [CR2]
« on: February 05, 2014, 04:56:44 AM »
why is it that the sony a7 and a7r have the same sync speeds as most common SLR's????  I ask you directly because you seem to beleive these new systems are the template for all that is good in the world, why is it that with no mirror the zync speeds are still low?  And I am talking flash on camera, not even off camera.  shouldn't that be one of those benefits to ditching the mirror?     

The mirror is gone, but the mechanical shutter is still there…and it's the shutter that imposes the Xsync limitation (shortest duration where the sensor is completely exposed - above Xsync both curtains are traveling across the sensor in a 'rolling' slit).


Aside from the "generic problem" of a mechanical shutter, Sony's greedy and shortsighted (!) choice of A) whimpy battery and B) crappy mechanical shutter unit [noise, lots of vibration, bad X-sync] for the A7R seriously degrades what would otherwise have been a truely amazing camera. Unfortunately. Shutter situation in A7 is somewhat better since it has an electronic "first curtain" and 1/250s X-sync as opposed to only 1/160s for A7R.

Much shorter X-sync times are one of the reasons why I am clamoring for true "solid state" mirrorless cameras, with "no moving parts whatsoever" inside. :-)

see also: http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=19224.msg364739#msg364739

The logical fallacy at the centre of a lot of this argument from the mirrorless size tends to be....
Mirrorless performance may one day equal DSLR performance = Everyone wants a small camera
The idea that mirrorless tech could be used for anything but size saving seems to have passed many people by.

What I think you need to consider as well is which format sizes are actually going to benefit more from a smaller flange distance. In this reguard ASPC seems much more obvious than FF to me, the overall smaller size of the lenses is the most obvious point but your also dealing with a format where DSLR's use a legacy flange distance that's longer than needed for ASPC mirrors and a smaller sensor that causes fewer problems with light angles.
I look at the FE lens lineup and to me its notable how long they look relative to similar DSLR designs, I'm guessing the product of having to correct light angles. In seems to me that you could effectively just be trading shorter flange distance for longer lenses.

* angle of incident light (short flange distanze, lage sensor) - yes it is a problem. Yes, it can be solved, as Leica has demonstrated. Can it be solved for 10mm less flange distance, at far lower cost (than Leica) and still giving excellent image quality - I believe(!) yes, and I believe (!) it will be proven soon enough 

* Once Mirrorless cameras will finally be "really right", i.e. "solid state" with no moving parts whatsoever inside [=no mechanical, but global electronic shutter] will have a LOT of advantages over (D)SLRs beyond bulk and weight. Here are the ones I am interested in:

  • 100% vibration-free operation = benefits to image quality, especially "when it counts" = in challenging capture situations
  • 100% silent operation possible = ability to get any images or the images you really want in many capture situations e.g. concerts, churches, theaters, candids
  • flash X-sync down to 1/8000s ... or whatever shortest exposure time will be = images possible, that are currently totally unthinkable
  • higher image quality - no misalignment of optical axis and sensor/focus plane possible - provided lens mount is solid and precise
  • lmore bang for the buck - significantly fewer parts, no moving parts = significantly lower cost to makers, due to easier assembly, precision-alignment, quality control = lower prices for cameras possible (!)
  • higher reliability = no more mechanical defects possible, only electronic issues = significantly less failure in use, significantly shorter repair-turnarounds ... just swap out a circuit board, finished. No re-alignment of components required
  • much faster cameras possible ... fps as high as we want them possible - only limited by procssing power and bandwidth - and those follow Moore's law, so we'll have plenty, very soon :-)
  • better information at time of image capture - thanks to EVFs - which will continue to fast-evolve from "just acceptable in early 2014" to "absolutely mind-boggling" in the near future

And I am sure, we are still missing a few. :-)

* Relative lens size
does NOT scale 1:1 linear with sensor format! Not on SLRs. Not on MILCs.
Yes, 1" < mFT < APS-C < FF lenses. But with "really right" designs, the difference is rather small (ceteris paribus).
And beyond approx. 135mm physical focal length there is NO difference, since only the size of the entry pupil dictates size of the lens at the the end of the day. As evidenced by existing tele-lenses (mFT, FT, APS-C) and by the fact, that longer tele-lenses are not made for smaller than 135 ("FF") image circle.

That's why I expect some APS-C mirrorless systems to be around for a few more years, until everything gives way to FF. Anybody "really into" photography - whether professionally or as an enthusist/amateur - will get FF MILCs [sized very compact or as large and heavy as a current pro-DSLR for those who prefer "large and heavy"], everybody else only interested in "snapping a few" will use their mobile devices ... which will get better and better IQ in extremely small form factors [think Google glass :-)]. The middle-ground will disappear. But again, thats only my expectation, no fact (yet). :-) 

I would much rather buy a Canon/Nikon full frame mirror less that is equal or better than the Sony ... but until that day arrives, I'll play with the Sony a7 instead of waiting for CanNikon to come up with one.

Really like your pictures that show nicely, "why and how SMALL SIZE does matter" :-)  and sharing your purchasing decisions and your reasons behind them. Plus real-life experience using the gear. Thanks!  8)

Personally, I'll probably sit on the fence somehwat longer until "MY really right" FF-MILC comes along. If that happens to be too far out ... well, then I might just wait until the A7R PLUS SonyZeiss 24-70 becomes available where I live. ;D

EOS Bodies / Re: Will Canon Answer the D4s? [CR2]
« on: February 04, 2014, 01:22:38 PM »
It's also worth noting that Canon really hit a homerun with the RT system, even as it stands today. 

depends what expectations you had. Compared to the age-old, limiting and not very reliable optical triggering: YES.

Compared to what I would expect from a brand-new, proprietary "flagship-priced" flash system by the market leading camera gear company (right?  :P) I#d rate it "so-so". Yes, it is less limiting, yes it seems to be working reliably within the stated range and yes, it finally gives group-mode in conjunction with post2012 EOS camera models (is that 3 or is it more? 5D3, 1Dx ... plus some digital rebel?). Plus some nice remote 2-way triggering  effects.

But ... there are shortcomings ... as in the days past: still no 2nd curtain sync, still no no hypersync (rather the other way round with pre-2012 cameras) and no zoom-reflector control. Still no ability to include monolights in an RT-setup. Very basic backwards compatibility - even with still-current Canon speedlites [e.g. 430EX or ring-flashes]. 

So, in my book, they made it to first base and stopped right there. Although the ball is good and no outfielder  erm competitor managed to catch it yet. Although 2nd and 3rd base are free. For whatever weird reason, Canon decided to stop right there, rather than going for a homerun and win the game. Just standing there, frozen at first base. Weird, ain't it?  ;D

I wish Canon made a A7R equivalent. I wish they made an affordable 36+mp camera... But look at the numbers and the current economic climate and one will perhaps have a better understanding  why they do what they do. Just look at Amazons top seller list and one will see what sells.

Products that don't exist, will (typically) not show in amazon's sales stats, correct? So by looking at those stats, we only get some information how well existing products sell, but do not glean any information on how new products may sell.

But to speculate a bit, just imagine for a moment, there WAS a Canon FF mirrorless camera available for sale at amazon today. Same 36 MP sensor, same specs as Sony A7R, same price [USD 2298 / € 2069] ... :-)

  • now what sales rank would such a "Canon A7R" likely occupy in amazon's list?
  • and if there was also a "Canon A7" FF sensor MILC @ USD 1698 ... what rank might that one be at
  • better or lower than the Sony A7 and A7R

Do you think, it would qualify as a "niche" prduct only selling in very small numbers? Or might it be a top 10 seller?  :P 8)

Photography Technique / Re: The Cheapo Camera bag to fool the bad guys.
« on: February 03, 2014, 03:29:01 PM »
Dear Mr. Surapon. Very clever. :-)

2 objections however:

1. the red rings on the lens shades are still a dead give-away!!!  8)

2. if one of your clients happens to see you with your el-cheapo camera bag, he might mistake you for an un fortunate homeless person. ups!  :o

Be awae of "unwanted side effects"  ;)


EOS Bodies / Re: Will Canon Answer the D4s? [CR2]
« on: February 03, 2014, 03:23:16 PM »

That is farcically ridiculous and failed logic.

If I had been given the option of getting a $50 Canon made RT compatible trigger to work with my 550EX's instead of getting $450 600-EX-RT's I'd have done that, I wouldn't have got as integrated a system as I have, and Canon would have made $200 off me rather than $2,000. This way we are both happy. I am no Canon whore either, I have been running the 550's via Yongnuo RF 602's for years.

I paid $220 for most of my 550EX's new, I am getting around $150 for them now nearly ten years later secondhand, I wrote them down to nothing by 2008, they own me nothing yet they have given me ten years faultless service for $70. I expect similar figures from the 600's.

well, if I'd be coming from 10 years old written-off 550EXes, I'd also see much more sense to upgrade them to 600EXes. But in my case I got a pre-2012 camera model and Canon speedlites that are either still current (430EX II) or were current (580EX II) when I purchased them only about 2 years ago. Plus a 430EX which is maybe 5 years old. All of them used rather sparingly. Would you jump to an all 600EX-RT setup? btw. where I live, the ST-E3 retails from 270 € (=USD 365) and 600EX-RT runs from € 485 (=USD 650) a piece. The Yongnuo trigger is € 100 and I expect their YN-600EX to come in at maybe € 200 ... just to give you an idea, what I am looking at.

Anyway to me its a very minor problem: a few more weeks of occasional optical triggering until the Yongnuos become available.

Canon however has a bigger problem ... they spent R&D money and managed to create a highly beneficial technical advantage for many (potentially all) users of their ecosystem ... and then they don't distribute the goodness (against reasonable charge of course) to as many of their users as possible, but only to some ... 2012-Camera-model owners and 600EX-purchasers - rather than fully leveraging that USP against all their competitors. And driving nice synergies of scale. That's all I am saying.

So basically, your bitching about the fact that Canon created this really kick-ass new technology that you really really want, but you can't afford it, so you go off on a name-calling binge and try to paint Canon as some greedy company run by a bunch of idiot-buffoons who apparently wouldn't know a gold mine if it collapsed around them...because they aren't selling the 600-RT at a price point you can afford to refurnish your entire collection of flash right now.

Can you really get more childish than that? Seriously.

Oh, don't worry. I could afford more speedlites than I could carry, even at Euro prices.  ;D
I just refuse to throw money at Canon without getting *exactly what I want*.
And I do point out that some of Canon's business decisions don't seem to make a lot of business sense. Even though they manage to sell more cameras than other makers. Today.  ;-)

btw: I would again ask you to please watch your wording and refrain from personal attacks on me. I do respect you and your profound technical knowledge you share in many of your posts. Feel free to criticize my opinions/posts, but please do so in a civilized manner, Thanks! After all, we are only discussing Canon stuff and economics 101, not even world politics or religious topics [heaven forbid!]. :-)

What would you choose as your 2nd Camera Body after the 6D?

44 more 6D bodies!

So I end up with a total of 45 useable AF-points.  ;D

EOS Bodies / Re: Will Canon Answer the D4s? [CR2]
« on: February 03, 2014, 03:12:57 PM »
Canon are giving us all a choice, buy into the RT system as it is, or not; buy it for what it currently does, or not. The 600-EX-RT does not render the 580 EXII or any other EX going back to my 550's, obsolete, it integrates with them flawlessly with the complete compatibility of the older optical wireless system. You would only have a point if Canon came out with a 650 EX-WT next year that didn't work with either the optical or current wireless system.

Yes, there is minimal backwards compatibility in the 600EX-RT (not in the ST-E3-RT).

But if
* no mixing of radio-wireless (600EX-RTs) and optical triggering (other Canon speedlites) is possible?
* group mode (mixing ETTL & manual mode flashes) only available on camera models brought out after 2012?
means "integrates flawlessly" to you ... well, my idea of that is certainly rather different.

PS: FD to EF transition is no valid comparison, since broken backwards compatibility back then was technically inevitable. Even though Canon could have eased the pain inflicted by offering really advantageous trade-in offers to their FD-customers (maybe they did, I was not affected in 1987).

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