Messages

1036

EOS Bodies / Re: 1D X shooting birds

« on: May 11, 2012, 10:44:19 PM »

He likes to photograph big birds which you can get close to.  He also probably had access to 800mm lenses.
 
Unfortunately, shooting with a D1 X and a 100-400mmL plus 1.4X TC or a f/4 lens plus 2X TC won't autofocus, so you have to use the big dollar and ultra heavy lenses in the $11,000 range.
 
With a 1D MK IV and a 100-400mmL with 1.4X TC, you get autofocus and a 728mm equiv field of view with a low cost lens (relatively).
 
 
With a 1D X, you can get 400mm max and retain autofocus, so it really doesn't matter how good the AF is, if it doesn't work with your 100-400mmL and a TC!
 
Canon is trying to put their spin on the issue, but I doubt that many birders are happy.

This is pretty much my take. I was a bit surprised when he said he could just manually focus if he had to with a TC at f/8. That MIGHT work with stationary birds that are only moving laterally, but I can't imagine trying to manually focus a bird in motion, such as a wader or BIF. Its just not viable (unless you have some stupendous talent!)

1037

EOS Bodies / Re: Any new news about Canon 1D X f/8 AF?

« on: May 11, 2012, 10:38:13 PM »

I just tried it with my 70-200 IS Mk II in much lower light and with more complicated backgrounds just in case buildings at near infinity focus against the sky were too easy a subject... and the result is... Wow!

Another video...this one is less clear...parts of it black out as the cell phone camera looking through the viewfinder didn't get enough light, but stick with it. Also, I tried it indoors, handheld with just one lamp on and it works fantastic.

I was using Aperture to read the EXIF information and by default it doesn't show the lens's max aperture. I enabled that field and for the extender stack with 400mm f/2.8, it shows f/5.66, however the body will only let you select f/8, so there is definitely some Kenko trickery going on. All I know is it works!

I have to agree, seems to be working like a champ! I'm curious...it looked like you were using all of the AF points there in full auto selection mode? If so, that is really quite impressive, as many of those points are f/4 only points, IIRC. Very impressive indeed. Thanks! I still want to wait and see what Canon comes up with for a megapixel monster as competition against the D800 (for my landscape work), but you've put the 5D III back in the running as a serious contender for my next camera body (vs. the 1D IV, which given its price point even used, is looking little bit less appealing now). I may have to grab a 1.4x Kenko and try it on my 100-400 until I can afford something along the lines of a 600/4 II. I've heard the same kinds of things about the 100-400 and f/8 AF just not being viable using a pin-taping trick, but I figure its worth a try (at least, with Canon's new 61pt AF system.)

1038

EOS Bodies / Re: Any new news about Canon 1D X f/8 AF?

« on: May 11, 2012, 08:40:03 PM »

Well, @bchernicoff, I can't thank you enough! That actually looked like it was rather difficult to record a video of the viewfinder while activating AF, so the effort is much appreciated. I'm pretty surprised by the speed, looks like it locked on pretty quick onto pretty much everything...so I have to agree...seems to focus "like a champ" (at least in that light!)

Any chance you could try some lower-light tracking at f/8? Just to see how it might perform in a more real-world setting.

Anyway, thanks again! Looks pretty awesome, and certainly good enough for birds in daylight.

1039

EOS Bodies / Re: Any new news about Canon 1D X f/8 AF?

« on: May 11, 2012, 05:43:54 PM »

I believe the Kenko fools the camera that there is no converter through some electronic wizardry.

I understand why it *might* AF at f/8 because of the Kenko...I am skeptical that it was "like a champ".

1040

EOS Bodies / Re: Any new news about Canon 1D X f/8 AF?

« on: May 11, 2012, 05:01:23 PM »

Last night just for the hell of it, I stacked my kenko 1.4x onto my canon 2x II onto my 400mm f/2.8 which gives an 1120mm f/8 lens. AF worked liked champ on my 5D Mk III.

Sample images with EXIF? (Sorry to be a skeptic, but this is pretty much THE issue of the day for bird photographers, and the word from Canon has been pretty explicit this far: 61pt AF only works to f/5.6).

1041

EOS Bodies / Re: Any new news about Canon 1D X f/8 AF?

« on: May 09, 2012, 05:47:00 PM »

Say you are shooting an Egret at 1/1000 sec @ f/8, with an ISO of 400. Perfect light and exposure confirmed by following the histogram…. Right?

A cloud comes in and diffuses the light. All I have to do is to reduce the shutter speed to say… 1/500 sec  (one f/stop) and continue achieving a good exposure without sacrificing noise by allowing the camera to chance the ISO. If the cloud rolls out, my shutter speed will of course return to 1/1000 sec which I already know is a good
and confirmed exposure based on the previous light.

That’s two or three click to the left and right on the top dial.

My point is that you can easily achieve the same results without sacrificing noise and more importantly…. Image quality.

Good talk!

Thank you

You could do that, but you have to keep in mind the side effects of changing shutter speed or aperture. Both are indeed used to adjust exposure, but they have distinct side effects. A lower shutter speed will increase blur...both blur from motion as well as blur from camera shake. A wider aperture will reduce your depth of field, potentially to the point where half your subject is out of focus when you wanted the whole thing in focus.

At 1/500th with a 400mm lens, I experience just enough camera shake blur when hand-held for it to blur detail when shooting hand-held, even with IS (admittedly, the IS on my 100-400 isn't a modern 4-stop version). Additionally, 1/500th of a second exposure can cause more wing motion blur than I want in some cases. I liked your 1/30th second shot of the heron, but you don't always need that low of a shutter speed to get a nice, artistic amount of motion blur in wings. A fast moving bird with a fast wing beat at 1/800th - 1/1000th produces enough of blur for my tastes most of the time. In that case, I really want to keep my shutter speed between a pretty narrow range, limiting my ability to adjust it if exposure correction is needed. If I require a specific aperture to achieve enough DOF to get a whole bird, say a large bird like a pelican, in focus while tracking it in flight, the only thing I can vary at that point without worrying I'll impose undesirable side effects is ISO.

I could certainly change ISO manually (and I always do, given that I use a 7D and don't have the option of EC in M), but if I had exposure compensation against Auto ISO in manual mode, that makes the adjustment so much easier. I don't need to drop into a specific camera mode to change ISO to my desired level, exit that mode, then focus/lock and track my subject. With EC, it would simply take the roll of a dial to achieve the exact same thing, but without losing the instantaneous ability to adapt to changing lighting circumstances. Its definitely a convenience thing...but convenience means I spend more time watching the birds (and getting keepers) and less time watching my settings.

1042

EOS Bodies / Re: Any new news about Canon 1D X f/8 AF?

« on: May 09, 2012, 03:17:19 PM »

The way it works is:

Set shutter speed
Set aperture
Set auto iso

Regardless of the light then the camera will maintain the shutter speed and the aperture by adjusying the iso.

On the 1D4 you also get the option to set exposure compensation to ensure correct metering

If I'm shooting in Manual (that's all I do) why would I want to sacrifice image quality and noise by allowing the camera to set different ISO's?

That's what I don't understand.

The use of Auto ISO allows the camera to correct exposure when moment-changes occur. I can't say how many times I ended up underexposing because a cloud rolled in front of the sun just before I started shooting. (For all my technical knowledge, I'm still a novice when it comes to bird photography...I understand the technical factors and techniques, I'm just not that great at using them in the field yet. ) For BIF, you really can't redo the shoot. Using Auto ISO and EC, the camera could automatically compensate for the change in lighting, but you still have ultimate control over exposure.

As for noise, generally speaking if you underexpose and lift exposure in post, you'll still usually end up with more noise. Digital exposure adjustment always affects noise as well (since at that point its baked into the RAW), so lifting an underexposed photo will have as much or potentially more noise than using a higher native ISO setting. At worst the end result is roughly the same, at best using Auto ISO+EC in camera would produce better results.

1043

EOS Bodies / Re: Any new news about Canon 1D X f/8 AF?

« on: May 09, 2012, 03:12:37 PM »

Auto ISO with exposure compensationThe combination of the two is useful.

Can you give us an example?

Thanks!

1. Manual Mode, 1/1000th shutter, f/7.1:
2. Auto ISO selects ISO 800

With evaluative metering, the scene is a bit too dark. You need the DOF of f/7.1, and you can't go below 1/1000th because your already as low as you can go to freeze all but the birds wing tips. You don't have the option of using flash.

3. Use EC to bump ISO up to by 2/3rds of a stop

Correct exposure now, but its still not manual ISO, so when that cloud passes in front of the sun a moment before you take the shot, evaluative metering compensates and it still exposes correctly. Oh, happy day, happy day.

Why not just change your shutter speed to whatever is needed to get a good exposure on your bird and leave alone the ISO?

BTW, do you really need to FREEZE the wing tips? I certainly hope not as long as the subject is well exposed.

You missed what I said: Freeze all BUT the wing tips. I WANT the slower shutter so I can get some blur in the wings to demonstrate their motion...hence the benefit of being able to use EC in manual mode and indirectly adjust ISO.
[/quote]

1044

EOS Bodies / Re: Any new news about Canon 1D X f/8 AF?

« on: May 09, 2012, 02:50:42 PM »

Auto ISO with exposure compensationThe combination of the two is useful.

Can you give us an example?

Thanks!

1. Manual Mode, 1/1000th shutter, f/7.1:
2. Auto ISO selects ISO 800

With evaluative metering, the scene is a bit too dark. You need the DOF of f/7.1, and you can't go below 1/1000th because your already as low as you can go to freeze all but the birds wing tips. You don't have the option of using flash.

3. Use EC to bump ISO up to by 2/3rds of a stop

Correct exposure now, but its still not manual ISO, so when that cloud passes in front of the sun a moment before you take the shot, evaluative metering compensates and it still exposes correctly. Oh, happy day, happy day.

(All I would need then is a real-time histogram in the transmissive LCD of the viewfinder so I can identify the exposure discrepancy without having to take my eye away from the viewfinder at all to make the necessary exposure adjustments....oh, I would be in BIF HEAVEN!)

1045

EOS Bodies / Re: Long exposure dark current noise - 5D III

« on: May 09, 2012, 02:43:38 PM »

No visible banding in that shot after pushing the shadows! lol. Nice work with the trees and the glow toward the horizon. Cheers

You are pushing the shadows of a baked jpeg, though, not a RAW. You are more likely to encounter jpeg compression artifacts than banding in a shot thats already been processed with high contrast (which would crush noise into the deepest shadows). I wouldn't judge banding based on any jpeg samples here. You really need a RAW file to truly tell how much better the 5D III's shadow pushing is going to be over your 5D II.

1046

EOS Bodies / Re: Any new news about Canon 1D X f/8 AF?

« on: May 09, 2012, 02:39:11 PM »

Dont bet on significantly better high iso performance to 12800 - the 1D4 is still clean to there.

Where the 1D4 will claw back is on the auto iso keeping iso to a minimum when you set the shutter speed and aperture - and you get ec at the same time. This is something the 5DIII hasn't got.

Ah, yes. The Auto ISO/EC is really a nice feature. Its too bad Canon won't put that in their other pro-grade bodies. I can understand not putting it in a Rebel...but damn, make it a standard pro feature.

Auto ISO?? what's the advantage of that?

Auto ISO with exposure compensation in Manual mode. The combination of the two is useful. I think only 1-series Canon DSLR's get that feature. I certainly don't have EC in M with Auto ISO on my 7D anyway.

1047

EOS Bodies / Re: Any new news about Canon 1D X f/8 AF?

« on: May 09, 2012, 02:28:27 PM »

One area where the 5D III would definitely win out is in the high ISO category. Pretty much all Canon cameras perform the same at ISO 100-400 due to whatever limitation Canon has in their sensor design that prevents them from improving DR past ISO 400. If you regularly shoot birds in rather low-light situations, I would expect the 5D III to do better at ISO 6400-25600 (not to mention getting the extra stop of native ISO to boot.) I think I could have used ISO 6400 and maybe 12800 on some of the darkest days I've photographed birds.

Dont bet on significantly better high iso performance to 12800 - the 1D4 is still clean to there.

Where the 1D4 will claw back is on the auto iso keeping iso to a minimum when you set the shutter speed and aperture - and you get ec at the same time. This is something the 5DIII hasn't got.

Ah, yes. The Auto ISO/EC is really a nice feature. Its too bad Canon won't put that in their other pro-grade bodies. I can understand not putting it in a Rebel...but damn, make it a standard pro feature.

1048

EOS Bodies / Re: Any new news about Canon 1D X f/8 AF?

« on: May 09, 2012, 01:58:19 PM »

so how good is the AF on the 1D mk. IV at f/8, for example with a 500mm and a 2.0 tc?

i'll probably buy a 500mm in the next couple of days and was researching for a successor for my 7D. either the 1D mk. IV or the 5D mk. III. as i figured, i can crop an image from the 5D3 to 16MP (it would have a cropfactor of 1.375) and would have about the same reach as the 1D4 (not including f/8 AF support).

i have not used the 1D4, neither the 5D3, but almost everywhere i read the IQ of the 5D3 beats that of the 1D4. so would a cropped 5D3 image be better (or equal) of that of a 1D4 image? i guess i should rent both camera's when i have the 500, to figure it all out

Technically speaking, you would have to crop out the center 13.3mp area (4464x2976 pixels) to have the same effective spatial area as the 1D IV. But your still going to be at a spatial resolution disadvantage...80lp/mm for the cropped 5D III area vs. 88lp/mm for the 1D IV's full sensor. To exactly match the 1D IV with a full-frame sensor when cropping, you would need a 26.6mp FF sensor, which would have the same 88lp/mm spatial resolution.

Keep in mind, raw IQ is not the only factor in "getting a good shot". Camera A may have stellar IQ, but only a 4fps frame rate and only 10 continuous frames, with limited reach (1.0x crop). That could significantly limit your ability to get a keeper in the first place. In that case, Camera B, which great IQ (but maybe not quite "stellar"), a 10fps frame rate and 30 continuous frames as well as extra reach (1.3x crop), is the much better camera. You have a higher chance of capturing that perfect moment that just "makes" the photograph. I'd sacrifice a little bit of IQ any day for Camera B, as its a better tool for the kind of photography I'm doing.

I personally use the 7D, more because it was within budget than anything (and left me with enough extra money to buy accessories, extra batteries, bunches of CF cards, flash, etc. I would LOVE a 1D IV though...) I find it to be an awesome camera, despite the fact that it definitely does not have the best IQ. In high SNR areas (i.e. a bird itself), its IQ is great, but it has the tendency to speckle noise around in bokeh areas and it just looks terrible. I've learned, however, that that is a moot point. Noise can be cleaned up, by a variety of means (standard noise removal and a bit of quick masking and Gaussian blur in photoshop completely eliminate all noise from even an ISO 3200 7D shot.) Don't let potential IQ bottlenecks hold you back from getting the right tool for the job.

One area where the 5D III would definitely win out is in the high ISO category. Pretty much all Canon cameras perform the same at ISO 100-400 due to whatever limitation Canon has in their sensor design that prevents them from improving DR past ISO 400. If you regularly shoot birds in rather low-light situations, I would expect the 5D III to do better at ISO 6400-25600 (not to mention getting the extra stop of native ISO to boot.) I think I could have used ISO 6400 and maybe 12800 on some of the darkest days I've photographed birds.

1049

EOS Bodies / Re: Is this heresy?

« on: May 08, 2012, 10:12:21 PM »

I have a friend who has been trying out an X Pro-1 rental. He has mentioned quite a few quirks with it, not the least of which is lackluster RAW support from most tools. He has really only been able to use Fuji's software, which is far from great, to edit the RAW images (which are not quite "normal" in that the X Pro-1's sensor has a rather unique layout, and interpolation is not quite standard.)

He has also noted some funky issues using the OVF (optical viewfinder), which is not the same as a normal DSLR in that it has a parallax error. There are some odd problems around how the AF points when using the OVF don't really match up well with the actual contrast AF points of the sensor. He has mentioned on a few occasions how the EVF is not particularly great, and he has opted for the OVF more often...despite its parallax and AF issues.

He loves the IQ (its apparently excellent), but there is definitely a learning curve associated with the X-Pro 1, as well as some funky quirks and issues that seem to take some time to get used to or work around.

So...just beware...

1050

EOS Bodies / Re: Any new news about Canon 1D X f/8 AF?

« on: May 08, 2012, 08:03:01 PM »

I do not disagree.  I am saying take a picture using a 500mm and 5dIII and another with the 7D at a reasonable distance.  You will keep the one with the 5dIII.  The 5D looks better at 100% than the 7D looks at 50% crop, thus coming close on size. Even at iso 400 i would take the 5D.

"at a reasonable distance"

Thats what I'm talking about, though. To get the "same shot" with both cameras, you would need to be 50-60% closer with the 5D III than with the 7D. That is a BIG difference, and when it comes to birds on the water, you often don't have the option to get within a "reasonable distance". In such cases, it ultimately boils down to getting a decently framed shot you can use...even if it might be a bit noisy (7D), vs. getting a shot where the bird is only a small fraction in the center of the frame, thus resulting in an image that is smaller in area with less detail...even if that detail is less noisy (5D III). In that case, I'd take the 7D any day over the 5D III.

A 50% difference in distance can also mean that your songbird or raptor flies away because your too close...you've punctured their comfort zone. Again, you could get the shot with the 7D, but you would likely miss it entirely with the 5D III. Reach is one of the most valuable thing in bird photography. The 7D has it in spades, and even if the IQ isn't as good as the 5D III, it can mean the difference between getting the shot and not. Missing a shot is the worst outcome possible.