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Messages - friedmud

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Third Party Manufacturers / Re: D600 High ISO Examples
« on: October 28, 2012, 01:24:26 PM »
suggest to check for dust more frequently with your new camera since nikon d600 has sensor's dust spots problems...  i am not goin' to post link into this forum since i am not pretty sure whether i am going violate any thing with that;  however, google key search would be "Nikon D600 sensor’s dust spots caused by a gap around the shutter?"

Yep... mine gets dusty.  It is just dust though... and does get blown off with a Giottos Rocket Blower.  It is annoying... but worth the hassle (IMO) for the incredible image quality.

I'm actually surprised that I haven't seen this discussed here yet... Canon guys are usually pretty quick to jump on Nikon quality shortcomings (and the other way around on other forums!).

Third Party Manufacturers / Re: D600 High ISO Examples
« on: October 28, 2012, 01:20:26 PM »
Great pics by the way, but you mentioned the D600 gripped still felt front-heavy. I shoot with a 7D+grip+24-70 mainly and it feels really balanced, but I upgraded from the T2i because the body was just too small and did not feel comfortable. How do you find the lighter and smaller D600 vs 7D, in terms of ergonomics?


7D ergonomics are MUCH better than the D600.  The 7D grip in particular is, for my hands, nearly perfect.  The D600 grip is just too small.

I haven't tried the battery grip yet... I'm hoping that improves things.

Beyond the grip the 7D also has superior control placement.  The "wheel" on the back of the 7D is really good and the "joystick" on the back of the 7D is superior to the joystick on the D600.  The D600's joystick is still really good, but a bit harder to work with gloves on.  My main issue with the D600 controls are that quite a few of them (most notably AF mode selection and ISO selection) require the use of your left hand... whereas on a 7D almost everything can be performed using only your right hand... leaving your left to hold the (possibly heavy) lens.

Don't let all of this scare you off though.  This is really just nit-picking.  The D600 is not "attrocious" to hold and handle... just worse than a 7D.  However... the image quality is MILES and MILES beyond a 7D and MORE than makes up for any shortcomings in ergonomics.

A lot of the issues with the button placement on the D600 can also be remedied through customization.  Almost all of the buttons on the thing can be completely remapped to do something else.  So you can customize it to your needs.

Third Party Manufacturers / Re: D600 High ISO Examples
« on: October 27, 2012, 12:25:38 PM »
I'm glad to hear that Nikon has released another modern FF lens, they are sorely needed.  Still lacking is anything equivalent in price and quality to the Canon 100-400L, even though the Canon is old, Nikon can't match it.  Same for the old Canon 135mm L, and for the Canon 24-105L.
Lenses are much more important than bodies, and a much biger investment.

While you are right about the 100-400... I think the Nikon 24-120 f/4G matches up to the 24-105 quite well.

It has some amount of distortion, but resolution is really good through most of the range.

I almost picked it up instead of the 24-70 f/2.8... but I just couldn't resist the awesome bokeh and resolution of the 24-70...

Third Party Manufacturers / Re: Considering switching to Nikon
« on: October 26, 2012, 05:52:29 PM »
Why woudl you want to do that NOW?

Canon's 24-70 II and 70-200 II L DESTROYED Nikon's counterparts, at least based on 5 professional reviews.
5d3 beats D800 and 1DX beats D4, based on 3 professional reviews!

All depends on what you're doing.  If you're mainly doing landscapes then the above is definitely not true.  The Low ISO performance of the D600 and D800 are superior...

Then you have to take into account price.  A D600 and Nikon 24-70 is significantly cheaper than a 5DMkIII and 24-70 II (about $2000 from reputable dealers).  If this is just a hobby... that can be significant.

For instance... there was my situation.  I had a 7D and a 70-200 f/4L IS.  I also had a bunch of smaller gear and older gear (XSi, old plastic lenses) and a broken 17-55 f/2.8.  Let's analyze.

If I were going to move up to a 5DMkIII I would be selling my 7D.  That ended up netting me $1200.  The rest of my gear wouldn't give me that much cash (maybe ~$800).  So now I have $2k to spend.

If I go get a 5DMkIII body from Amazon (not that I would get it there, just convenient to talk about) it costs me $3,200... so I'm out of pocket $1,200.  That's ok, because I've been saving for a camera upgrade and have some cash.  But now what?  Oh, I need to get a 24-70 II as well (it's my preferred range and a damn fine lens).  So now I'm out of pocket another $2100... for a total out of pocket cost of $3200.

The nice thing about this is that I still get to use my 70-200 f/4.  The downside is that I'm out of pocket $3200.... which would make my wife fairly unhappy...

Now let's look at switching.  I would have the $2k I had before... plus I could sell my 70-200 f/4 (which I got $1000 for) so now I have $3000.  A D600 and 24-70 together cost $4000... so I'm out of pocket $1000.

This has the very real drawback of not having my 70-200 f/4 afterward... but I don't need it right away (again, mainly landscapes and travel photogging).  I can save up for it and snag it later (Nikon just came out with one for $1400)

So for $1000 out of pocket I have a D600 which is awesome for landscape photography and a really great 24-70 (can't say it's better or worse than a 24-70 II myself... but it is really good either way).  That is much easier for my wife to deal with... and I'm getting excellent IQ (orders of magnitude better than the 7D... but that's expected.  Can't say how much better than a 5DMkIII).

Yes, I could have gone for a 5DMkII... but I would have sorely missed having good AF (I don't _only_ shoot landscapes!) and still wouldn't have the low ISO DR and IQ that the D600 does.  Nor would I have access to the excellent Nikon 14-24 (Canon ultra-wides are really not great - I bought a 16-35 this year... and went through two copies before returning it all together because of lack of resolution at the edges... even on my 7D!)

Personally, if Canon would have come out with a serviceable 6D I would have stayed.  But there were just too many features missing for the price (might still be a fine camera, but I feel like I got more for my money from a D600).

Basically, this whole thing is just trying to let some of you see that there are reasons to switch.  The world is not black & white.  There are many people in all sorts of different situations and with different needs and in different financial circumstances.  It's not as easy as "X reviews better than Y!"... there are more variables...

Lenses / Re: Your technique for switching lenses in the field?
« on: October 26, 2012, 05:27:10 PM »
I wonder about this myself... and have gotten into some precarious situations before.

The best solution is to have another set of hands - my wife's work well for instance.  Here are my general steps for that scenario:

1.  Take off hood and reverse on the lens that is currently on my camera.
2.  Put lens cap on the lens that is currently on my camera (my lens caps are always in my front right pocket... so they are easy to get to).
3.  I use a backpack that I can swing around and get into without putting it down... so I generally swing it around and snag the lens I want.  Then I take off the front-cap (it goes in my front-right jeans pocket) and loosen the back-cap and hand the lens to my wife.
4.  Unmount lens and snag the loosened back cap off the lens my wife is holding.  Place back-cap on newly unmounted lens and stow lens in backpack.
5.  Mount new lens
6.  Swing backpack back around.

You can achieve this without the extra set of hands by doing the same thing but leaving the lens you're going to mount in your bag (with the front-cap off and the back cap loosened), but there is a moment where you have your lens unmounted and you've gotta snag the back-cap off the new lens and attach it to the old lens and put away the old lens and mount the new lens and that gets pretty finicky with all your gear dangling off of you.  Often I will just stop and set my bag down and do it on the ground... especially for heavier / longer lenses (harder to deal with with a single set of hands.

I'm interested to see what others do.

Third Party Manufacturers / Re: 6D Need To Change Something..
« on: October 26, 2012, 12:40:34 AM »
How many posts are on the internet by people defending their expensive purchases? It doesn't bear thinking about...

Hmmmm... How many posts on the internet are completely worthless and add absolutley nothing to the conversation?  Well... at least one...

Back on topic:

I really hope we get to see some real photos from the 6D soon... I'm definitely interested to see if they did anything new with the sensor.  We've had a few reports of people shooting with these... someneeds to get an SD card in one quick!

Third Party Manufacturers / Re: D600 High ISO Examples
« on: October 26, 2012, 12:27:05 AM »
great shots with that kind of light, friedmud! That's a lot of detail and color preserved considering the conditions. I chuckled at your comments about the D600 grip - that's the one solace I have in buying a D700 ~7 months ago. Despite the handling issues, that sensor looks like a real winner!

Really glad to hear you're having a good time on the dark side - it's nice to see people on CR that don't consider us trolls at first glance. I'd love to give more advice about lens choices if you're interested; I'm the type that exhaustively researches everything before committing to a purchase.

Thanks Weekend!

I would love to hear about lenses... BUT I have a confession... I just went all in and slammed down $2k to nab the 24-70.... so I probably won't be buying another lens for a while!  :-)

I want the 14-24... but i have a suspicion that the newly announced 70-200 f/4 will probably be my next purchase.. if it's any good.  I loved my Canon version and was sad to give it up...

Third Party Manufacturers / Re: D600 High ISO Examples
« on: October 25, 2012, 09:06:46 PM »
I'm not quite head over heels with my D800, but love it just the same.  Use it every chance I get. My 5d2 is being ignored, hopefully it doesn't sulk when I go to use it.
I wanted to love the D600, but it's SO not comfortable for me to hold.
I've found I can rely on my D800s AF points as well, the thing just works like a good tool.
One thing I didn't try, is the D600's low light live view good?  D800's is not, very noisy. 5d2 low light LV is awesome.

D600 Live view is totally different from the D800.  It's not "interpolated".  I find that it works well!

As for the grip on the D600... it definitely is one of the things I like least about the camera.  With the very heavy Nikko 24-70 f/2.8 it is very fron heavy and definitely needs two hands to raise to my eye.  I loved the grip on my 7D... but I like everythting else about the D600 better ;-)

Lenses / Re: looking for equivalent to efs 17-55 f/2.8 in EF line
« on: October 23, 2012, 11:52:02 PM »
The Tamron 24-70 f/2.8 VC is getting really good reviews.  It's about the same (effective) focal length, had IS (VC), same max aperture and even about the same price.

I would give it a look.

Third Party Manufacturers / Re: 6D Need To Change Something..
« on: October 23, 2012, 10:32:11 AM »

2.  D600 AF Spread.  It is definitely less than the 7D I sold to get it... and it _is_ inconvenient.  However!  The D600 AF is REALLY freaking good.  It is insanely fast (nearly instant with the 24-70G) and very accurate, even in low light.

I just saw DigitalRev overview of 5D3, D600 and D800 - shooting at a boxing ring, with marginal lighting... perhaps its part of a sales program, but the D600 didn't get the flying colors in terms in AF. 

Nikon D600 vs D800 vs Canon 5D Mark III - Head-to-Head

Are your findings different?

Digitalrev is pretty trustworthy IMO.  They might not do the best reviews (sometimes they prefer entertainment value over objectivity) but they are not shills.

I don't have findings to say that the D600 is great at shooting moving targets in poor lighting.  So far, all of my experience had been with people sitting fairly still.  In that scenario the D600 does great: locks on fast and accurately.

I'll have to see if I can replicate that scenario.  A woman friend of mine (who is dating one of my best friends) is really into kickboxing.  I've been thinking about going and trying to get some pictures... Maybe I'll do that soon.

Third Party Manufacturers / Re: 6D Need To Change Something..
« on: October 23, 2012, 12:15:42 AM »
Sigma DP2M AND a DP1M: $2000
Your favorite stitching software: $100

Completely freaking awesome landscape kit and I just saved you 4k.....and back troubles later in life since this is so light.

Heh - I knew someone would make an attempt at a better deal when I posted that ;-)

The DP2M and DP1M are definitely interesting little cameras.  After I complete some of my Nikon kit I really might think about snagging one... would be perfect for carrying in a pocket while skiing ;-)

Third Party Manufacturers / Re: Considering switching to Nikon
« on: October 22, 2012, 11:11:52 PM »
And they had better switch quick-quick, before Canon brings out a camera he likes more than Nikons, 'cos then this guy will be 'overnight' back with Canon. And all the switchers will be crying in their beers because they can't afford to keep up with Overnight Jones. LOL

As a switcher that just sold all his stuff to get a D600... it really wouldn't matter to me AT ALL if Canon came out with a better camera.  The camera I now have is _awesome_... and I won't have a need to upgrade again for years.

At that point I will survey the field and take note of my own financial position and once again try to get the best setup for the money for my type of photography.  If that happens to be Canon... I could very well switch back.

My final thought: There is no way there is a Canon camera on the horizon to challenge the D600 for landscape photography.  The 6D is missing too many features and anything better than the 6D costs an arm and a leg...

But who knows what the future might hold...

Third Party Manufacturers / Re: 6D Need To Change Something..
« on: October 22, 2012, 11:00:53 PM »
As someone that thought this very same thing and did something about it (sold all my Canon gear and bought a D600) I can shed some light my view:

1.  The 6D is woefully overpriced compared to the D600 on paper.  No one has used a 6D yet, so we don't yet know whether or not it is "worth" $2100... but you certainly get more "features" for your dollar with the D600.  This one won't be settled until the 6D comes out.

2.  D600 AF Spread.  It is definitely less than the 7D I sold to get it... and it _is_ inconvenient.  However!  The D600 AF is REALLY freaking good.  It is insanely fast (nearly instant with the 24-70G) and very accurate, even in low light.  Also:  yes, the points are really close together, but in my limited experience that does help with tracking... ie, the camera never loses "sight" of the target between AF points (although... it _does_ lose it if the target leaves the center of the frame!).  Finally: I really _like_ the tiny AF points... they are very easy to stick right on an eyeball to nail a portrait...

3.  High ISO: I think it's _really_ good.  See my thread here: http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=10335.0  I haven't shot with a 5DMkIII or 1DX so I can't compare... but I am really happy with it!

4.  I really think people need to quit comparing the 6D and D600.  The proper comparison is 5DMkIII and D600.  Even though ~$1300 separates them... they are MUCH closer to each other than the 6D and D600.  Here's how I see it:

5DMkIII and 24-70II: ~$6000
D600 and 24-70G: ~$4000
D600, 24-70G AND the awesome 14-24: ~$6000 (Perfect Landscape Kit!)


Overall, at this point - I don't think we can say much about the 6D.  We're going to have to see it in action.

However, for everyone out there that is underwhelmed by the 6D specs... I can confidently say that the D600 is a great machine.  The IQ is absolutely awesome and the machine just flat _works_.  I'm really loving it.

Absolutely zero regrets at this point...

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: upgrading from rebel xsi: T4i or used 7D
« on: October 22, 2012, 09:55:51 PM »
I upgraded from an XSi to a 7D about a year ago.  I just sold my 7D to get a Nikon D600.

I was underwhelmed by the image quality.

That said - the high framerate and really good AF will serve you well if you shoot fast moving targets often... so it still might be the best camera for you.

This is not too mention all the other great things about the 7D like the ergonomics (it just feels right in your hand), the Custom Modes (C1, C2 and C3), the orientation sensitive AF point selection, the "joystick", all the awesome AF point groupings, the beautiful screen (compared to the XSi), superior mirror-lockup and bracketing modes (compared to the XSi) and on and on...

Read the advice here - but make the right decision for yourself...

Third Party Manufacturers / Re: D600 High ISO Examples
« on: October 20, 2012, 09:12:18 PM »
Thanks Imagination!

I can't believe just how "head-over-heels" I already am with this camera!  I was out practicing some sunset shots in my backyard tonight... and the camera _just works_.  I love it!

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