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Messages - EchoLocation

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Canon General / Re: Announcement: Canon EF 200-400 f/4L IS 1.4x
« on: May 14, 2013, 10:40:24 AM »
wow... just got home from dinner(live in China.) I cant believe this is actually announced.
seems to be basically what we expected. It defiinitely seems awesome, but I'm never going to buy one.

incredible if this is true.
what are we going to talk about now?

this thing was on a tour of photo shows around the world. I got an email hyping it being on display at either the HK or Shanghai camera show at least six months ago. I know they also had it on display at other camera shows in different countries as well.
At this point, the announcement means little besides just confirming weight, some random specs and price.
I'm sure someday it will be in the hands of actual consumers, but at this point it's basically a joke/Yeti.

Animal Kingdom / Re: Wrong Photography Ethics?
« on: May 10, 2013, 05:11:50 AM »
In my humble opinion (which is often wrong - not the humble part), unless you are taking photos to go into a newspaper or photos that are intended to prove a point (i.e. polar bears swimming and drowning in iceless water etc. - no need to debate the example I chose) there is no such thing as ethics.

Any line that anyone choses to stand on is simply aesthetics and preference.  There is no absolute.  Photography and art are supposed to be interpretations of reality.  Now, if you tell me your photo is pure reality and it isn’t that’d be cheating.  If you just ask me if I like it, the fact that it is a composite is not relevant.
I think this is a very logical argument. I don't particularly "like" the idea of images being photoshopped and changed beyond just lightroom style editing, but that doesn't mean that it isn't happening constantly everywhere around us. In this day and age, I think we should all just expect editing and it is difficult to draw the line on what is acceptable and what isn't. Unless this is being used for some reason and besides just to entertain then I really don't see an issue with it at all

Lenses / Re: I have just lost confidence with Canon Rumors & B&H
« on: April 17, 2013, 07:28:11 AM »
I get what you're saying OP.
I also think you're overreacting quite a bit.
If you have lost your confidence in this site, especially about something that isn't even a rumor, then that is your problem. This site is here to make a profit(at least I was under the impression that it was,) and if you cant handle the fact that sometimes they link you to "good deals" that aren't always the "best deals" then you probably shouldn't come around here anymore.
I for one, would like to thank the CR team for having such an awesome website and always keeping us up to date on Canon news. I think the CR team is great and I love all the work they do to give us interesting subjects to talk about.
I understand that sometimes they post things because of business decisions, and I'm ok with it. if you aren't ok with it, then keep making whining posts, or leave.

Third Party Manufacturers / Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
« on: April 13, 2013, 10:21:22 AM »
There is a almost new D800 on our local craigslist (not a scam) for $2100.  I checked ebay and noted that there were a lot of sales in the $2200 range, some even included a cheap lens.
Why are people dumping them?  I was tempted to get it as a 2nd body to my 5D MK III.  I have several Nikon lenses.  Finally, I decided that I'd pass it up, if others don't want them, I won't be able to resell it a year from now without losing money.
I did buy one new last May for $3K, and later sold it for $3200 when they were hot items.   There are some better lenses now available or on the horizon, so the lens situation is not so bleak as it was.

Well at least they're holding their value better than the 5D Mark III!

Debut'd at $3499 and has been on sale new for as little as $2799. Don't know about 2nd hand prices but they'd have to be less.

The new price of a D800 has dropped from $3000 to $2800.

5D3 with $700 (20%) drop vs D800 with $200 (7%) drop.

Easy to see which has held its price better.

I can see a few D800s for sale at or below $2200 2nd hand, but it has had a good workout at 17,000 snaps!

Maybe you should ask the sellers why they are selling rather than create a troll topic here?
All reputable stores are selling the 5D MK III for $3299 ... the $2799 you are quoting are "flash" sales i.e. just a couple of hundred units to promote a particular store (like Big Value Inc etc) for a very brief period.
So comparing "flash" sales of 5D MK III with the normal selling price of D800 is unfair. If you are going to compare at least be fair in also comparing the "flash" sales of D800 ... the last flash sale I saw of D800 was $2349.
IMHO both cameras are holding their price drops quite similarly.
Just to clear things up a little? where and when have you seen a D800 at $2349? The only time i've seen that price is a one time deal on Refurbished D800's.  I don't think i've ever seen a D800 new for less than $2800, while i've seen the 5DIII at under $3000 many times.
From my experience, I think it's pretty clear that Canon plays the high MSRP/Future discounts game much more aggressively than Nikon does.... at least in the past few years.

Canon product development announcements are getting really old. Cant they just announce something?

Announcing firmware updates months in advance....
remember when the 200-400 was spotted on the first 5DIII in Africa? Where is it?

EOS Bodies / Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
« on: March 29, 2013, 05:17:10 AM »
And at those prices i'd probably recommend the D7100 unless Canon has some sensor magic up their sleeves.

... to *new* users, but those will probably go for a sub-€1000 camera (xxxd/xxd) while the existing users will "upgrade" ...

I don't see any way this camera could cost more than $1600 given the D7100's specs.

.. but given the market saturaration with lenses/flashes/other single-brand equipment Canon knows existing users seldom switch brands - you loose money selling gear and you have to get used to a new usability.

So how much would you pay to be able to stick to your old system? €500? €1000? That's what Canon can add on top of the camera price as seen on the 5d3 - and then there's the early adopter's fee of €200-€500. A "reasonable" price will only be achieved after about 2 years after rtm.
with the price of the updated Canon glass and the premium prices of new bodies compared to their competition, I wouldn't pay anything "stick to my old system."
In fact, I was pretty perturbed at getting screwed on both sides of the equation, both lenses and bodies. So perturbed that I switched to a D700, which is just insanely awesome at $1500 bucks, as well as the 24-70G, which is also unbelievably nice, and which i bought for 700 bucks less than the new Canon version.

EOS Bodies / Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
« on: March 28, 2013, 11:58:25 PM »
Interresting, in Japenese forums he specs are handeld a little bit better. Price over the 5D3

Price over 5D3, Whaaaaaahaaaahahahahahaa.  ;D
for the price to be around the 5DIII, i'd expect sensor performance similar to that of the 1DX, 5DIIIish AF, similar or better weather sealing to the 7D, maybe one card slot to differentiate/cripple it a bit, and 8FPS.
With the specs listed in this rumor i'd say the price all depends on the sensor. If it has greatly improved sensor performance then Canon might ask $1999(and that would be too much) or if it has the current APS-C sensor tech i'd say they'd price it at $1500(and that would be too much.)
right now, Nikon has the D5200 and D7100 which outside of the FPS are both comparable to this camera and both are priced around $1000ish.
These specs are closer to the Nikon 7100, a $1200 camera body. I would suggest that these specs are probably for the 70D, not the 7DMK2. They will never be able to charge a premium for a 7DMK2 with these specs. Nikon has upped the expectations of what APS bodies should be and Canon will have to respond. If Canon stays with these specs Nikon will release a better APS-C camera and Canon will once more be well behind the curve.
This is what I was thinking. If this camera is released with these specs and the current sensor performance I don't see any way this camera could cost more than $1600 given the D7100's specs. And at those prices i'd probably recommend the D7100 unless Canon has some sensor magic up their sleeves.

EOS Bodies / Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
« on: March 28, 2013, 10:48:31 AM »
This does sound as the 70D to me... then I would be happy.

I agree, these would be pretty disappointing specifications for a 7D MkII, even if the new sensor was superb.  It would make more sense if this was a 70D prototype, allowing the 7D MkII to raise the bar. 

This said, it is possible that Canon and Nikon are "collaborating" to deny users a high performance APS-C body, thus forcing them to switch to full frame... Rumours and conspiricy theories go hand in hand!  ;)
Outside of the 10fps, i totally agree. this camera sounds good, but not great. if people waited 4 years for this, i don't think they'd be happy, but not  too thrilled. I think these specs make a great 70D, except toss in about 5-6fps instead.
If this is the 7D, it would have to be $1400 bucks to compete with the D7100, which I think has great specs, scores good reviews, and is priced aggressively.
I'd say Canon would be better tossing in a 5DIIIish AF, 2 card slots, and 10fps at a price of $1999. That would be a sexy APS-C camera that would excite all camera fans, not just die hard Canon fanboys.

Is this thread just trolling for an argument.... of course people will be disappointed if they don't start changing sensors after so many releases with the same one.
There's no chance i'm buying the 70D, so I really don't care all that much, but just for the sake of progress in the camera industry, i'd be very disappointed if they don't have something better.

I think most of the DSLR innovation is now done. So we get very simular new models with very simular specs.
I don't think Canon will ever put a pro AF system in any camera which isn't in it's pro portfolio. So lets get real here, if you want a 5DIII or 1Dx Spec then that's not going to ever happen in a XXXD camera.
Do you work for Canon? Why are people so quick to say that today's cameras don't need to get any better, or we shouldn't expect more, or they cant cost less?
Maybe it won't be in a Canon XXXD body, but it may be in a Sony Mirrorless or Fuji camera real soon(maybe even a Nikon, check the AF on the D5200.)
Maybe you are happy with paying 3000 dollars for a huge DSLR, but many people aren't. Canon wants us to think like you, but other companies who aren't on top are hoping other people still want more, which I do.
If Canon continues to think that no one wants better specs at a lower price and everyone is happy with the size, price and features of the current offerings, then there will be a long, long fall from the top.
Sure, the best of the best cameras will always be expensive, but I see no reason why a camera with 5DIII specs cant cost 1000 bucks in 5-10 years.

I think the main reason the creative filters were added to the new rebels is that they literally had zero upgrades to the bodies at all worth mentioning in the press release.Thus, this was a cheap and easy way to spruce up the spec/features list, reviews and conversations with something new, instead of literally adding nothing. lol.
Look at this thread, it has degenerated from an utter trashing of the new releases to a conversation about why these new "features" weren't included on the 5DIII.
These new features are for the M 4/3rd, Instagram, hipster crowd, and just as a filler to rearrange the list of specs.

Also, whatever you might say about the "majority of rebel users" -- I wonder how many 5-series and 1-series users start out as Rebel users ? (I did) There is a delicate balance here -- they do want to be able to encourage these people to ultimately upgrade to a 5 or 1 series body but they don't want to make the entry level body so awful that these users start out with a different manufacturer.

As did I.  So for us at least, and I suspect there are lots of others like us, it seems their 'cripple the low end to drive up-marketing' strategy is working rather well.  ;)

I suspect that there are many more who are not "like us" -- we have more disposable income than the typical hobbyists.
I started out in the DSLR world with a 550D and soon after bought a 24-105 new. Later I bought a 5D classic and was sold on FF for good.
I was waiting with credit card in hand to pre order the 5DIII for 2800 bucks or less, but alas, it wasn't to be. One of the main reasons for me choosing Canon at first was their more reasonable pricing than Nikon(at the time(2009)).
By the time the 24-70 II was announced and the 6D vs D600, I had had enough and was sick of the new pricing strategy(everything expensive(except the 40mm, which I don't need) and the lack of exciting products(less exciting specs than the competition, similar or lower rated reviews to the competition, No RX1 competition, and slow 2.8 primes.)
I chose to buy a used D700 and a 24-70 from Nikon. I was worried about switching brands, but at this point, i'd feel like a fool if i hadn't.
To be honest, i'm pretty much done with big DSLRs and heavy glass. I'm not a Nikon fanboy at all. My next camera will either be an RX1 or any FF mirrorless camera or SL1 sized full frame.
I truly hope Canon, Nikon, Fuji, or Sony make this in the next year before I start another year of travel. I'd be happy to switch back to Canon if they can create that sense of confidence in their pricing, and exciting new products that has been missing the past couple of years.

Dude, what dont you get, AFMA is a pull through to get you to buy a better camera

no boy, what you don´t get is that im not someone who just silently swallows sh*t... because "it is that way".

im well aware why canon does that... no need to waste 2000 words.

but when i think something sux then i say it.
haha, thank you so much for saying this in such a clear way. This is how I often feel, it's just hard for me to state it so clearly.

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