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Messages - Marsu42

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With most of the threads about what's wrong with the 6d and what a €2000 camera doesn't do that a €3000 does, I'd like to assemble a (short?) comprehensive list of 6d characteristics that are positive and, if these are required, might make the 6d a good purchase after all over the 7d, 5d2 or even 5d3:

We all know that Nikon has more bang for the buck, and more expensive gear is "better". I also could rave about what Canon audaciously cut from the 6d. But that's not was this thread should be about.

So here's what I think (or assembled) vs. either 7d, 5d2 or 5d3:
  • highest dynamic range vs 5d2/5d3 - see
  • visibly (vs 5d2) / slightly (vs 5d3) higher iso capability, esp. more usable iso12800+
  • less banding = higher potential for shadow recovery (esp. vs. 5d2)
  • center-point af up to -3lv (and probably no af assist lag like on 5d3?)
  • more precise center af (vs 7d/5d2, much worse than 5d3 & 6d cannot use newer lenses' precision (lensrentals))
  • silent shutter @3fps (same as 5d3)
  • gps built-in (but w/o camera direction, thanks, Canon)
  • wifi built-in and remote control via mobile device
  • long battery life (1000+ shots, but of course w/o gps or wifi)
  • exchangeable focusing screen for better mf with f2.8+ (vs. 5d3)
  • large ff viewfinder (vs. crop)
  • short release time (vs. 5d2, equal to 5d3)
  • good metering & auto-wb (vs. 5d2, equal to 5d3/7d)
  • hi-res lcd (vs. 5d2)
  • top wheel lock (vs. 5d2)
  • fast fps (vs. 5d2, but worse than 5d3/7d)
  • newer firmware (vs. 5d2/7d):
    • full support for rt flashes,
    • in-camera multishot/hdr (but only jpg & no save source, thanks, Canon)
    • in-camera ca correction
    • 7x bracketing
    • dual afma for zooms
    • servo af customization
    • flexible min/max auto-iso
    • min shutter speed setting (only up to 1/250s, thanks, Canon)
    • orientation-linked af point (if anyone dares to use the non-center point)

These can be positive or negative according to personal taste or other equipment (like lens' sharpness/vignetting):
  • full frame sensor:
    • small depth of field
    • uses the whole lens area
    • field of view is like 35mm film
  • small, but still an ok/good grip
  • light (while retaining weather sealing)
  • 60d-type layout for "right-hand only" control
  • sd-card support, uhs-1 standard
  • less expensive means less need for insurance, worst-case (damage, theft) is less catastrophic
  • less innovations means proven tech = less (early adopter's) issues like compat w/ 3rd party tc (?)
  • larger af point edges - better to see with f2.8+, in dark environments & af points lit (probably?)

... reduced only 5d2 vs 6d:

EOS Bodies / Re: More 6D sample images - with RAW files.
« on: December 01, 2012, 02:35:48 PM »
For me, the difference is too small to matter in my applications.

Same for me - but it makes you wonder what a €2000 24-70ii is supposed to do on a 6d if the sensor is in the habit of making it look like a Tamron 24-70 for half the price. That's because I'm on a budget so that €1000 does matter and €2000 for a camera body is a lot, so too much "it'll do somehow" wouldn't be worth it...

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Quick help needed!
« on: December 01, 2012, 01:24:13 PM »
I want to make portraits, catch the atmosphere of the festival.

Think about your final resolution export size and the min. iq you can get away with, then determine a max iso you can use (you should have time for that...) so that nr doesn't waste your shots. Of course the max nr depends on the detail of the scene, but at least you should have an idea. Still, a noisier shot is better than a blurred one... but you should be ok, I even shots demonstrations at night with fast movement with my 60d & 50/1.8 @iso6400, but of course @1:1 pixel level the noise was very bad.

Third Party Manufacturers / Re: 5Dmk3 doesnt play with kenko teleconverters
« on: December 01, 2012, 01:18:07 PM »
The topic is about issues with the extender with a 5D MK III.

Well, I don't have a 5d3 either (yet :->) but if the Kenko tc won't work with my 100L and the 6d does that would be +1 for the latter. So here's some information I just discovered for you posh 5d3 owners, there are 3 versions of the Kenko dgx that are only different by the color dot next to the barcode on the box and a color dot in the tc

v1: no dot (= only the main red dot)
v2: green dot (next to the main red dot)
v3: blue dot (ditto)

So if anyone reports anything, please state which dgx version you have... maybe we'll get v4 and a yellow dot next :-o

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 6d Reviews
« on: December 01, 2012, 10:10:45 AM »
So the 6d center af really is just an updated 5d2 system (Thanks, Canon!), but the lower light capability probably won't make up for less accuracy if choosing between 5d3 and 6d - except for those of us who don't want to spend more than €2000 for a camera body that is... Canon did what people would expect from Canon, nothing more, nothing less.

The bottom line is the 6D AF is about identical to what we saw with the 5D II as far as center point accuracy.

EOS Bodies / Re: Just ordered a 6D...
« on: December 01, 2012, 10:02:30 AM »
Lensrental did quick AF test:

Thanks for the link - and it's a letdown, but not unexpected :-(

EOS Bodies / Re: More 6D sample images - with RAW files.
« on: December 01, 2012, 09:56:37 AM »
Do you guys think the 6D pics are overexposed in comparison to the 5DIII?

I noticed that, too, but since it's raw w/o postprostprocessing I guess the lighting in the studio was slightly different, these are no 100% pro reviewer shots (the 5d3 shots have a little different framing to and are slightly skewed). But it means the shadows shouldn't be compared between 5d3/6d, but only the equally lit areas.

EDIT: I just remembered that the lighter shadows on the 6d could also mean it has more dynamic range than the 6d ... but really ... from Canon? Nah.

Lenses / Re: Canon 70-300L IS + Kenko 1.4x Teleconverter
« on: December 01, 2012, 08:47:02 AM »
I should mention that my unit was an older version. Apparently, the newer versions have a green or blue dot on them and have newer firmware that fixes some of the AF issues with certain lenses.

Afaik the versions with only a red dot are really old, newer ones have a green dot (on the box next to the bar code and on the tc) and the most recent versions a blue dot - like mine, purchased in 4/2012. And I suspect they even do silent updates without changing anything. Thanks for transparent product specs and good communication, Kenko :-\

Pricewatch Deals / Re: amazon - 5d3 -- $2999/3299 wo/w 24-105L...
« on: December 01, 2012, 08:13:25 AM »
wow... (just a viewer, i dont work for them) listed that amazon has the body for 2999 and with the kit lens for 3299...

That's only $300 for a new 24-105L lens?! That's ridiculous, looking at these prices my eyes water when I look at the prices in Germany :-o

EOS Bodies / Re: Just ordered a 6D...
« on: December 01, 2012, 08:00:09 AM »
The thing focuses like crazy in low light - I'm primarily a nightclub/social photographer

1. Can you say anything about the af *precision* yet, not just the speed? And if you've got a 5d3 handy it would be interesting to compare the af speed/precision (center point, single point af) to the 6d, because that's what'll matter most to many people.

2. Did you try the non-center af points and are they really as crappy as the specs predict?

EOS Bodies / Re: More 6D sample images - with RAW files.
« on: December 01, 2012, 06:30:15 AM »
Very nice. I would say the difference is about 0.7 stops better for 6D (comparing ISO 12800 to 25600). Yummy!

I just had a look again, and the 6d images are softer - that maybe because...

  • the pre-release raw converter is not up to it
  • the (preproduction!) 6d trades in a little sharpness for less noise, maybe because Canon doesn't expect 6d owners to shoot with sharp lenses anyway, but in low light :-p
  • some problem with the lens (50/1.8...)

The video samples of the preproduction model were said to suffer from the same thing. Btw it isn't as obvious at higher iso levels since the noise creates an impression of artifical sharpness, for the softness look at iso 800...

I guess we have to wait for raw samples from the *final* retail model with a more recent raw converter, I hope it shouldn't take long since the the 6d is already sold.

Canon General / Re: Is canon going to come back?
« on: December 01, 2012, 06:02:34 AM »
Fair enough, and that's a really good goal.  But...I can think of a dozen or more better ways to determine that, and no ways worse than posting this topic that you posted on this forum.

Still fun to read it :-> ... but indeed given the large differences in requirements and esp. the amount of people who exhausted their budget to buy a $3500 camera body and those who cannot/don't want to afford it at all it's very tricky to get a unbiased view (if there is such a thing).

Better ask "I want to shoot xyz, already have got xyz gear, have xyz $$$ for lenses+body now and would be ok to invest xyz $$$ more later on".

Pricewatch Deals / Re: Canon EOS-1D C Available for Preorder from B&H Photo
« on: December 01, 2012, 03:42:15 AM »
The price is $11,999 and is expected to be available on December 26, 2012.

I just pre-ordered two ... not. I'm really wondering who would buy such a camera if even neuroanatomist isn't interested - has Canon found a market gap where it fits in as a "cheaper" option in comparison to even more expensive pro equipment, or is this even more "dead on arrival" as other recent Canon innovations?

Lenses / Re: Canon 70-300L IS + Kenko 1.4x Teleconverter
« on: December 01, 2012, 03:09:59 AM »
I am wondering if any one has any experience with the Canon 70-300L IS combined with the Kenko 1.4x Teleconverter.

The most important thing is: The combination is visibly better than cropping, so it's a good purchase since the Kenko is rather inexpensive and you can use it with *all* lenses (well, except the 100L on the 5d3 where where seems to be a bug).

As for iq, I'd say the 70-300L is not "stellar", but "very good", and with the tc it's still "good". It is prone to hunting with low contrast / bad lighting with *single* point af and the af is less precise than native, but does much better with multi-point. So forget tracking or critical shots, but still very useful for some type of shots esp. of non-moving objects.

EOS Bodies / Re: More 6D sample images - with RAW files.
« on: December 01, 2012, 02:59:05 AM »
The cameras seem to be very close.  The 6D is perhaps a bit better, with less color noise.  If the difference can be measured, I think it would be much less than a full stop.

I installed CaptureOne myself, imported the 5d3/6d raw files I'd say after much more color noise reduction on the 5d3 the difference 5d3->6d is about 1/2 stop - which is more than nothing, given the fuzz that was made about the improvement 5d2->5d3. The real world difference might be that iso 12800 is more usable on the 6d.

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