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Messages - Marsu42

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2431
Fyi, don't know if this has been mentioned here: unlike other ml features this will *not* be ported to other cameras since only 5d3/7d have the required readout (for details see the pdf linked in the ml thread) :-\

2432
DoF does not rely solely on optics, so badgerpiper's  statement is false. DoF relies on apparent aperture (optics) and subject magnification (optics, reproduction size and viewing distance).

Thank you very much that you are so persistent explaining it, simple /me really learned a lot in this thread from you and the links you posted, esp. http://www.josephjamesphotography.com/equivalence/light.htm#dof

I was mislead by the dof calculators that output a precise dof range, I never read the fine print :-> ... but on the other hand I knew that the apparent dof changes drastically with perceived image size (like from camera display -> large lcd and your distance from it) which actually requires you to take multiple shots of the same scene with different apertures to have the dof *you* want for every output situation you have in mind. The CoC explains this and having read about it I don't know how I could have ever thought dof would only depend on optics :-p

2433
or if that happens you might as well shoot JPGs.

But with jpeg you're loosing the ability to alter wb in post ... having said that, I also never use s/m-raw, it *would* be useful though if it'd be a crop mode like newer Nikon models have it if your tele lens is maxed out and you're discarding the off-center data anyway.

2434
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Move to full frame (6D) or New Lens?
« on: July 17, 2013, 06:58:57 PM »
but the bigest improvement will come with your 50 and 70-200.

I doubt the 50/1.8 makes a good ff lens, I have it and even on crop using only the center it's less than mediocre.

Thanks for your input. I have looked at the 5d2 and actually wanted it over the 6d for some of its features such as ergonomics and PC sync, but people still want a lot of money for 5d2s.

Yes, again same here - I cannot find a used 5d2 on the open market that has what I'd consider an ok price considering shutter count and the improvements of the 6d. I just mentioned because you might happen to know somebody who'd sell a 5d2 for an ok price to "good hands" of an enthusiast.

2435
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Move to full frame (6D) or New Lens?
« on: July 16, 2013, 02:49:05 AM »
Part of me says to get the 24-70 first as I would need a standard zoom on the 6D, but part of me really wants to try out full frame. I thought about just getting an old 5Dc to try out full frame, but I figured it was more worth the money to get a current model camera. The 5D3 is currently more than I would like to spend if anyone was thinking to suggest that instead. Thoughts?!?

Same here, the unfortunate fact is: you need both, which results in quite a large investment over the also ok crop iq in good light. If you're lucky you might get a cheap 5d2 if you don't need the new 6d features (see  http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=11309.0), and I'd advise the Tamron 24-70 over the Canon mk1 (the Tamron is as sharp or sharper and has IS, the better Canon af doesn't really matter on the 5d2/6d).

Getting the 24-70 is a good idea because the 6d price keeps dropping, while the lens prices are stable, it's just that this focal length is a bit awkward on crop. So look for lens rebates and used ff cameras...

2436
2-3 years would be my guess.  To me its a similar level camera to the 7D and that is over 3 years old.  I don't think the refresh cycle will be anywhere close to the Rebels.

The 6d won't be a very long life product: It's only rated for 150k shutter cycles, plus it has an outdated af system. Note while Canon is hesitant to annoy their premium and pro customers with obsoleting their cameras too soon, but the 6d is a consumer camera (fw/hardware feature set + only cps silver in the EU).

But in this special case my guess is that a replacement doesn't depend on Canon's schedule alone, but rather on the competition just like there wouldn't be a 6d at all if Nikon wouldn't have had thrown down the gauntlet with the d600:

The 6d is built to be further dropped in price a lot, as long as it goes on selling it won't be replaced, once Nikon releases a d600 successor or the 6d sales stall Canon will put a new af system in once the high-mp 5d4 has been released maybe in the end of 2014.

2437
Pre 2012 cameras can only deal with three groups in the time between shutter press and shutter release. I believe this is why pre 2012 bodies have ETTL and HSS, Group mode, and sync limitations, they were not designed for more than three group functionality.

Interesting theory, but still Canon could have implemented a legacy mode where the rt flashes are limited the traditional three groups if they wanted to - with two flashes, you don't need group mode and my guess is that a lot of people would have welcomed such a compatibility esp. since Canon doesn't offer rt triggers.

2438
not sure why they still make flashes that cant be tilted upwards.

Explanation: Because Canon can sell two flashes to newbies, first an inexpensive w/o tilt and then a proper flash once people realize the importance of off-camera and indirect flash.

Unlikely.  There's no technical reason the 430EX II can't be a master, the control signals for Canon's optical triggering come from the main flash tube

... which is why I'm still a little annoyed because the 600rt cannot be a radio *and* optical master at the same time, unless someone comes up with a clever tech explanation my guess is that Canon removes the command sequence from the (ettl) pre-flash to pressure people into completely switching to the expensive 600rt line.

I just bought 5 600rts. :P These next speedlites better be RT capable.

They'll probably release a 660rt in fall w/ ettl3 protocol, including remote 2nd curtain sync and remote zoom.

Since there is a heavy official Canon rebate in Germany on the 600rt which is unusual for new equipment I wouldn't be surprised if they'd also replace their master flash along with releasing a smaller model.

2439
Last not least, note that if people rave about thin dof they often mean "strong background blur" except if you like the "only the nose in focus" type shots, and same thing here: bokeh also strongly depends on focal length and object/background distance relationship.
Except that bokeh really refers to the quality of the OOF blur, independent of quantity.  But maybe that's a story for another day.  ;)

Thanks for the hint, you are correct, even trusty Wikipedia says so (though you've probably written the article there :-)).

2440
Here is a comparison I did a while ago for another thread much like this one. It is a comparison based on the above criteria. The three images are identical in dof, noise, perspective, angle of view, etc etc.

Admit it, since you knew they'd be the same you were lazy and they're all from the same camera :-p ... ok, just kidding.

Why does the sensor size affect the DOF and why do FF cameras have a smaller DOF?

In addition to the good explanations from privatebydesign above, here's what I personally tell myself: To get the same shot (i.e. field of view) on a ff camera in comparison to a crop, you have to walk towards the object with a ff, resulting in a thinner dof @same aperture.

This also means that in real life, camera-object range is equaly important for the resulting dof than your sensor size, you can get very thin dof shots out of a longer lens even @medium aperture like the 70-300L@f4 which is able to focus very near objects. Play around here: http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html

Last not least, note that if people rave about thin dof they often mean "strong background blur" except if you like the "only the nose in focus" type shots, and same thing here: bokeh also strongly depends on focal length and object/background distance relationship.

PS: The phrase "ff has thinner dof" indeed confusing at first, /me also German :-p and I also had to refer to this site to get a proper explanation :-)

2441
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« on: July 13, 2013, 02:10:06 AM »
Is Topaz much better than the NR in PS? I have never tried anything but PS.

Afaik 3rd party nr software like noise ninja and probably topaz do automatic adaptive nr, i.e. they are much smarter than lr/ps at smoothing background bokeh and gradients while not smudging detail where is would be disturbing.

If you stick with acr, do manual adaptive nr by using a low global nr and using the brush with a higher nr setting to smooth non-detail areas ... or vice versa. Also apply lower nr for small export sizes - both techniques combined make a large difference.

2442
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« on: July 12, 2013, 02:07:59 PM »
I'm not sure how much that matters any more - for most uses, high fps or high precision, a Hybrid/PDAF via image sensor is conceptually superior, just add enough computing power. That goes hand in hand with the requirements of the video market of the coming years.

Agreed, but there is a medium volume conservative dslr market (many of the forum users here are part of it) of people that are either pro and thus hesitant to break their successful habits or old-school enthusiasts that wouldn't touch a evf with a ten-foot pole. This group will keep demanding traditional dslrs for the next decade and pay (nearly) any price premium, so Canon will be careful to shape and deliver to this market.

2443
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« on: July 12, 2013, 07:19:13 AM »
Is it just me or CR stated nothing new as a rumor...? He maybe ONLY updated the trustworthiness of what he already told us?

Hey, give the CR guy some credit, with a company as secretive as Canon it's hard to do regular updates on a rumor site (except for amazing deals with affiliated stores and pre-order possibilities) :->

The question is, is the 7DII supposed to be a consumer camera? If yes, why should Canon put their 61-point pro AF system in a consumer camera - as many are asking here.  And if not, why should Canon appeal to consumers with a (noisy) 24mp sensor.

Answer: Because Canons wants to maximize profits, as any company, and Canon is the market leader by selling volume with broad appeal and not by producing niche products (aps-h anyone? :-)).

So at the same time they will want to put enough consumer features into the 7d2 to make vanilla amateurs upgrade even if a 70d would do just fine (= more mp on 7d, fw features, gimmicks), and give a good reason for enthusiasts/semi-pros to upgrade even if they know some $$$ is better invested in lenses (= much better af on 7d).

As for the 61pt system, I don't think Canon will go Nikon like d4->7100, but they'll engineer something between the 7d1 and 5d3 to protect their ff cameras.

2444
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« on: July 12, 2013, 04:56:28 AM »
The question is, is the 7DII supposed to be a consumer camera? If yes, why should Canon put their 61-point pro AF system in a consumer camera - as many are asking here.  And if not, why should Canon appeal to consumers with a (noisy) 24mp sensor.

Answer: Because Canons wants to maximize profits, as any company, and Canon is the market leader by selling volume with broad appeal and not by producing niche products (aps-h anyone? :-)).

So at the same time they will want to put enough consumer features into the 7d2 to make vanilla amateurs upgrade even if a 70d would do just fine (= more mp on 7d, fw features, gimmicks), and give a good reason for enthusiasts/semi-pros to upgrade even if they know some $$$ is better invested in lenses (= much better af on 7d).

As for the 61pt system, I don't think Canon will go Nikon like d4->7100, but they'll engineer something between the 7d1 and 5d3 to protect their ff cameras.

2445
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« on: July 11, 2013, 06:15:34 PM »
Nah. They won't put a 24mp sensor in the 7DII.

Depends on what people it should appeal to - and more metapixies has consumer appeal, smartphone nowadays have 41mp cameras :-> ... and the 7d1 sells not only for sports/wildlife photogs, but also to the general shooter who wants the "best" crop body.

It is certainly not going to have the 5D3 AF. You can't just stick a FF AF system on APS-C.

Probably not the exact module, but everything else sounds a bit like an urban legend - Nikon put the ff d4 af into the d7100, surely Canon can modify the 5d3/1dx array w/o a complete redesign to go into a crop body? The real question if is Canon would want to do as aggressive tech trickle down as Nikon...

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