Messages

331

EOS Bodies / Re: Big Megapixels Coming Soon? [CR1]

« on: August 06, 2012, 12:30:26 PM »

I know the product isn't out there yet but, it's a shame how Canon holds back on what their loyal buyers want when they (Canon) knows what is wanted. 

They claim one body is a flagship (1DX), holding out on what another body has (5DMK3) only to give their fan base what they originally asked for (more megapixels) shortly afterwards. You cant tell me they didn't plan on a higher MP body announcement after 1DX & MK3 sales peak.

I also know that Canon didn't force anyone to buy either one of those bodies ... but lets face it ... Canon plays games with those who keep them competitive in a world of serious competition.

If I were to stop at a Kool-aid stand & buy a hot, watered down glass of Kool-aid from a little kid, only to have them pull out a fresh/cold picture from under the stand afterwards .... that would piss me off! 

What Kool-aid are you drinking?  The fan base, for years now has been asking for what they got in the mk3 - better AF, better performance at high ISO, and better ISO range - its pretty much exactly what the mk3 is.  The whining about only started when people heard about the d800.  And now there is this vocal segment who twist history to be what it isn't.  Nikon rolled the dice and put their big MP camera out before canon did.  Now, could you imagine the change in the field we'd have now, midway through wedding season if the situation was reversed?  IE, all us canon wedding shooters slumming i up on our 5d2's because we don't need nor want a 40 mp camera (at least canon would be smart enough to give it sRAW and mRAW so we aren't stuck with 100 MB images.

You must be landscape/studio, because that is the group that dislikes the mk3, well, or the hobbyists (and most of them like the camera but not the price). 

332

5D MK III Sample Images / Re: 5D MK III Images

« on: August 01, 2012, 05:44:40 PM »

in the spirit of the b@w...
ISO 5000 - f4.5 - 1/60th

333

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Canon 7D, 5D2 or wait for cheap FF body from Canon?

« on: July 27, 2012, 10:41:40 PM »

hmmmmm....interesting....how old is your 16-35 by chance?  I have a 10-22mm that I am about to start trying to sell (haven't used it since i got my mk3, probably because i haven't used my 7d either...and if i do, it may very well just be for extra reach).  A 16-35 would be nice....hmmmm

334

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Canon 7D, 5D2 or wait for cheap FF body from Canon?

« on: July 27, 2012, 06:26:09 PM »

my take on this ---

If you want to do this like...now --you are already used to crop sensor going with a 7d isn't like stepping down.  Its a good body with many strong features.  The mk2 does have great IQ and will be better at higher ISO than the 7d.  Its a hard choice.  I just upgraded to the mk3, and my 7d is now collecting dust and I am not sure what to do with it (keep it as backup, sell it and snag a mk2 as backup, or wait till the 7dmk2 or the new entry FF comes out)

Advantages to 7d - price, range, AF
Advantages to mk2 - better overall IQ, better at higher ISO's.

how quickly are you thinking?  If this is something you want like within the next month, the option of waiting for the new entry FF isn't really there because its doubtful it will be available for a while (my guess would be late fall, just in time for the holidays, but, they may wait till 2013 to roll that thing out too...who knows)...

So if you are thinking now, its between the 5dmk2 and 7d... and thats tough.  I know the mk2 is great, but, on the times I have used it the feel of it never wowed me.  I know the 7d quite well and it is a damn good camera for the price.  Good side is prices are coming down on the mk2...if you can find one used for $1500, do it!  If not, i wouldn't drop 2k on it now. 

Now if you at all want to wait for the new ff...id say save up...and once you hit 2k...keep saving.  Ya never know, by the time that ff comes out, you may have enough for the mk3!  Which I can definitely say has wow'ed me!!!!

335

EOS Bodies / Re: Should/can Canon keep making its own sensors?

« on: July 21, 2012, 09:57:14 AM »

I see Nikon using Sony sensors, and Sony itself is using its new sensors in its new well-received bodies, and I read people discussing how the Canon sensors seem to be falling behind. 

I wonder if Canon will reach a kind of "Apple Moment", like when Apple quit spending its R&D money trying to beat Intel on a component (CPU's) and started just using Intel chips like everyone else. 

As was pointed out earlier, Apple never built their own chips. Also, Intel aren't the only company who manufactures x86 chips.

Apple made a number of smart business decisions and released several very successful products (imac, ipod, OS X) after Jobs took the helm in 98 (and well before they adopted the intel architecture in 2005)

One of the problems with having Canon drop sensors is that most of the companies who build sensors are either their competition, or companies who would like to become their competition.

Canon makes better lenses than Nikon, and could focus on staying ahead on that.  They could/should take a page from the perfectionist Steve Jobs, and focus on addressing all the 1000 little niggling customer gripes and wishes about cameras, and making Canons just work better and smoother than Nikon (or Sony).  Outclass the competition by thinking of everything, and including it; and by not withholding simple little crap in hardware and firmware that they could instead make standard in all their cameras for very little cost. 

Providing nicer products is always a worthy goal, but the Apple way is not to push high end functionality down to low end models so that users of said low end models may aspire to have high end functionality made available at the low end price. Rather it would be to simplify and clean their product lineup by simply eliminating those "tweener" product lines so that these users are left to choose between (for example) the Rebel and the 5D.

Another lesson from Apple, by the way, is that they have never been leaders from a pure price to performance standpoint. Instead, they always lived or died by the idea that users would pay a premium (in some cases a fairly hefty premium) for a well crafted product.
Canon have an analogous though not identical approach -- their plan is essentially to build a compelling system. A good system is not just about sensor performance. It is a comprehensive product line, which includes professional grade support, bodies, lenses, and even printers. The only other manufacturer who can play in the same ballpark at present is Nikon.

Canon has the part about "not leading from a pure price to performance standpoint" and "charging a premium" down pat.  Do they have the all-important counterbalancing point about superior user-experience/funcionality sewed up, or are they resting on the security of having people heavily committed/invested in its lenses not being able to switch easily?  In the face of real competition to its market share, Canon should compete by being better for the same price, just as is standard practice in all consumer goods.  If you can steal a march against Nikon by putting better firmware into a lower model body, DO IT.  And how much could AMFA really cost to include??

Other than being bitter, having a hard time figuring your logic.  The mk3 is selling quite well as are canon models in general.  I think you got it right for nikon though.  Niokon is smaller than canon and has been trying to catch up over the past 5 years.  I'm not sure if the d800 is priced the way it is due to outsourcing the sensor from sony, or, maybe nikon is trying to undercut canon by selling a product at close to a loss (or, maybe sony is taking a loss on the sensor just to get it out there).  Either way, the mk3 is holding its own.  Amazon is one of the only sites i have found that publish this data and keep it up to date.  Since release, both the d800 and the mk3 have been in the top 20, more often than not in the top 10.  As i write this post, the d800 is at 11th, and the mk3 is at 8th.

So I'm really kind of wondering why canon would listen to you and drop prices?  If they were in trouble, they would.  Hell, I don't even see them scrambling to get a media campaign together to get people on board with the 5d series.  What I do see canon doing is preparing to launch new lenses and new bodies.  Your post describes canon as a company that sinking in quick sand, and they better listen to you or else...or else what?  Sounds to me like listening to you would be a good way for canon to destroy their business.  Would the mk3 sell at $2999, sure.  Would the complainers still complain?  Yes.  Hell, if they released it at $1999 I'm sure people would still complain!  Bottom line is if you want the best studio landscape cam out there then the mk3 may not be the best choice for you.  Suck it up, stay on your current gear and wait, or make the decision and sell your gear to invest in nikon.  Those are your choices.  I made mine - I bought my mk3 a few weeks ago and it is a joy to use.  The files are just awesome to work with, and the high ISO capabilities are just plain outrageous!   

336

EOS Bodies / Re: Should/can Canon keep making its own sensors?

« on: July 20, 2012, 07:28:30 PM »

CR Forum Logic.
1. 5D2 IQ = Praiseworthy, even today. (general agreement)
2.  5D3 IQ > 5D2 IQ (general agreement)
3.  5D3 IQ = unsatisfactory

 

so very true....I asked it on another lets bash the mk3 thread, how many naysayers own either camera?

337

EOS Bodies / Re: Mark III price dropping

« on: July 20, 2012, 11:12:48 AM »

I'd be interested to know how many of the mk3 bashers here actually own or have used one?  Just saying

338

5D MK III Sample Images / Re: 5D MK III Images

« on: July 18, 2012, 10:49:30 AM »

here's a few wedding shots

339

EOS Bodies / Re: Canon's Next Full Frame Camera [CR2]

« on: July 18, 2012, 10:46:26 AM »

You'll just have to experience it yourself I guess...and when you do, you'll be saying wow a lot!

The attached shot - ISO 20,000 - f4, 1/40th, taken at night no flash...4th of july...this was on my second day with the mk3, was shooting the fireworks, played it safe for most of that night and used flash, once I had fulfilled my requirements decided to play and snap some candids at crazy high ISO just to see how it would handle it. I'd say, not so bad...   

That shot looks great. I never go above 6,400 on the 5DII.
There are a lot of things I am going to love about the 5DIII.
Thanks for the shot. btw ... what lens?

24-70L...not the new one though, the old one.  When you get yours, try it in the most extreme situations you can!  You'll find that 6400 is like safe....which is awesome cause it totally opens things up. Here's a wedding shot - at ISO 6400, f6.3, 1/60th = on my 70-200 2.8 (the non-IS version at 200mm)  6400 is pretty clean.  Yes there is noise in the RAW file, but it doesn't take too much to clean it up and you don't lose too much sharpness.  I love that I was able to get this shot, no flash, and have some room to play with DOF.  On my 7D, I would have had to go with ISO 4000, 2.8, and closer to 1/50 or lower, and thats just to get the shot at all, on a mk2 it would be a similar story.

340

EOS Bodies / Re: Canon's Next Full Frame Camera [CR2]

« on: July 18, 2012, 01:33:46 AM »

shot RAW, no in cam noise reduction ---I reduced noise in lightroom, adjusted color temp, and lifted the shadows a bit

341

EOS Bodies / Re: Canon's Next Full Frame Camera [CR2]

« on: July 17, 2012, 10:02:00 PM »

Think of it, if ISO 12,800 on an mk3 looks like ISO 3200 on a mk2, then, if you can achieve similar quality (not even equal, lets say ISO 6400 looks like ISO 3200 on an mk2...then yeah that would be enough to make me say give me this entry level FF as my backup...)

I have a 5DII and I will upgrade to 5DIII, but high ISO performance is NOT that much better unless you shoot only JPG. Who does that on a 5D series camera?

Comparing ISO performance using out-of-the-camera jpeg shots is nonsense.

The only place you get 2 stops of improvement is in video. That is cool on it's own. For photos it is about 1/2 a stop improvement.

Other than that, I agree the 5DIII is an awesome camera with a ton of upgrades over the 5DII.

Actually, I was talking about RAW files.  I've had mine for about 2 weeks now and have done some pretty nutty ridiculous low light shots, all in RAW.  My frame of reference is mostly from the 7D, but, I have talked with many who have used the mk2 more than me and they are saying the same thing...basically 12800 ISO is the new 3200 ISO, and where 6400 used to be i'd go there if i had too, its now totally usable (seriously 6400 looks like 1600 on my 7d).

I can believe 2 stops improvement compared to the 7D. Most of the reviews indicate only a modest improvement over the 5DII at high ISO, except apparently the in-camera JPGs. Reviews do indicate that high ISO in Movie mode improves enormously in the 5DIII.

Either way, you have a great camera, and I intend to get one too

You'll just have to experience it yourself I guess...and when you do, you'll be saying wow a lot!

The attached shot - ISO 20,000 - f4, 1/40th, taken at night no flash...4th of july...this was on my second day with the mk3, was shooting the fireworks, played it safe for most of that night and used flash, once I had fulfilled my requirements decided to play and snap some candids at crazy high ISO just to see how it would handle it. I'd say, not so bad...   

342

EOS Bodies / Re: Canon's Next Full Frame Camera [CR2]

« on: July 17, 2012, 06:08:13 PM »

Think of it, if ISO 12,800 on an mk3 looks like ISO 3200 on a mk2, then, if you can achieve similar quality (not even equal, lets say ISO 6400 looks like ISO 3200 on an mk2...then yeah that would be enough to make me say give me this entry level FF as my backup...)

I have a 5DII and I will upgrade to 5DIII, but high ISO performance is NOT that much better unless you shoot only JPG. Who does that on a 5D series camera?

Comparing ISO performance using out-of-the-camera jpeg shots is nonsense.

The only place you get 2 stops of improvement is in video. That is cool on it's own. For photos it is about 1/2 a stop improvement.

Other than that, I agree the 5DIII is an awesome camera with a ton of upgrades over the 5DII.

Actually, I was talking about RAW files.  I've had mine for about 2 weeks now and have done some pretty nutty ridiculous low light shots, all in RAW.  My frame of reference is mostly from the 7D, but, I have talked with many who have used the mk2 more than me and they are saying the same thing...basically 12800 ISO is the new 3200 ISO, and where 6400 used to be i'd go there if i had too, its now totally usable (seriously 6400 looks like 1600 on my 7d).

343

EOS Bodies / Re: Canon's Next Full Frame Camera [CR2]

« on: July 17, 2012, 09:51:05 AM »

I get the feeling reading this that its just MP envy...  I don't get it, half the comments are based on this idea that this is an upgrade for the mk2...it isn't, its a replacement for it, not an upgrade ---the upgrade is already on the shelves at stores...

And another thing I don't get - those who have a chip on their shoulder because the mk3 wasn't tailor made to their needs toss the mk3 under the bus and try to promote a fiction that its failing in the marketplace, when it isn't!!!.  If you check amazons top selling slr list, the mk3 has been in the top 10 since it became available.  For most of the time it has been right next to the d800 in sales...but as i look today the d800 isn't even on the list anymore (guessing nikon is having supply issues cause its no longer even in the top 20).  Either way, the mk3 is ranked at 4th right now, and the top 3 are sub $800 camera's.   That doesn't sound to me like a camera that's flopping....

I totally get that if your a studio shooter the mk3, or this entry level FF isn't for you, but, for those of us working in a variety of conditions, the mk3 is amazing...and if this entry level FF can hold its own in terms of high ISO IQ, then this may be an affordable backup body.  Think of it, if ISO 12,800 on an mk3 looks like ISO 3200 on a mk2, then, if you can achieve similar quality (not even equal, lets say ISO 6400 looks like ISO 3200 on an mk2...then yeah that would be enough to make me say give me this entry level FF as my backup...)

I look at it like this ----I know many local wedding shooters in my area, and about half are canon, half are nikon ---- many are grabbing mk3's or planning on picking one up in the fall.  On the nikon side, wedding shooters are going for the d3, d3s, or the d700.  And the nikonians I have talked too have said they probably won't be buying  a d800 due to the extremely huge file sizes (and if they did, it would sit in the bag most of the time, only to emerge for the formal shots or a few key ceremony shots - not worth it in most of my local communities eyes). 

So, while the d800 is impressive, the mk3 is much more well rounded, and therefore fits into the marketplace quite nicely. 

Now this new entry level...could be awesome, could be a flop, who knows...and same goes for the rumored d600...its all in the land of who knows...but hey, its fn to make a 30 page thread!  LOL, the d800 vs the mk3 thing has been beaten to death, lets smack the corpse around a little more!

344

EOS Bodies / Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?

« on: July 13, 2012, 07:09:40 PM »

I think Bosman is referring to the rate of return.  Storage size goes up drastically (22mp vs 36mp) with highly diminishing returns in IQ.  So why do it?

May I suggest that with more MP more thinking takes place before the shutter is pressed?
That is certainly true with MF digital.

See, if you shoot lets say...weddings, there are moment where thinking is aplied, and crafted, and applied again, all while trying to control chaos around you.  But, there are other points, at receptions and during the ceremony where you as a tog have to be in the moment, and you know what, at that point instinct and experience take over.  That's where you shoot in 3 shoot bursts to make sure you get the perfect expression ...and thats also where your filling up your cards.  Also, if you take a photo-journalistic approach, and those who do that tend to hand over 600-1000 EDITED images to the client, much of the time from a primary and secondary shooter.  How many overall shots do you do to get that kind of return?  Generally it will be in the vicinity of 1500-3000 images!!!!  a high mp camera just isn't suited to that kind of work unless you can tone the files down a bit.  and on the d800, they don't have a sRAW or mRAW option, its RAW or crop and sorry, I'd rather use sRAW for filler shots than crop mode.  This kind of issue though is only gonna be important for shooter who who shoot a lot, like wedding photographers.  If your a studio/commercial tog, more of your shooting will be spent setting up the shoot than actually shooting ---its an apples to tomatoes comparison.     

345

EOS Bodies / Re: Joystick issue 5d mk iii

« on: July 12, 2012, 06:37:10 PM »

I guess I never noticed it with all the Canon cameras that I've used but now that I also shoot a Nikon D800, their "Joystick" to move the focus point is continous.  If you hold it down in one direction, it will auto repeat.  In fact it acts just like both cameras act when moving the focus box around the live view frame.  Is there any way to set the Canon 5DIII to auto repeat in the viewfinder mode just like it does in live view?

ditto on this, may have to poke around the manual again to see if there is a setting for that. 

On mine, the joystick is really easy on the first move, but it is touchy and just kind of figured it's something I will get used to in time.  When I try to move the Af points across the screen it's real easy to mistakingly push down on it, and poof its off to the center point - 

My Joystick has not fallen off but I would welcome helpful advice on programming the AF home setting.
Currently when I push down on the joystick, AF returns to the center sensor and a second push switches back to the previous AF sensor which drives me crazy. I want the AF home setting to work every time, not every other time.

Can it be programmed that way ?
Thanks

I hope the sensitivity is in fact just something to learn and get used to and not a sign that my joystick will pop off.  what batch?