December 17, 2014, 11:33:55 PM

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Messages - Aglet

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31
Here's the shots from the Fuji X-T1

All at 70.5mm, f/4, 12800iso (Fuji's ISO may be about 1 stop optimistic)
5/13s shutter for the pole
1/3s shutter for the thornapple
1/2s shutter for the leaves

32
Here's the shots from the Olympus E-M10.
All at 53mm, 1/8s, f/4.4, 12800iso, handheld and set to use the IS of the lens rather than the in-body sensor-based IS.  As you can see, the 3rd shot of the leaves was hopelessly OOF while sharpness on the other 2 is better.

33
Thank you for posting the tests.

Am wondering why the images are not sharp. Thx.
I'd venture they're not sharp because I was well beyond the lowest shutter speed/focal length where the IS is able to deliver.  Combine that with medium focal length, relatively shallow DoF, any bit of motion is going to cause some blurring.  Add in the level of way late night fatigue I had there was no way I was going to be as steady as I could have been either.
None of the images were sharp, motion blur seems to have gotten most of them far more than the in-camera NR for loss of detail.

The first 2 shots with the 7d2 were at 1/4 second and 70mm - that's between 4 & 5 stops slower than would be recommended as a slowest shutter speed for that focal length to have a reasonable chance of a clear image and likely a stop or 2 beyond what most IS systems can deliver. 
The 3rd shot was at 0.4 seconds so nearly 1 stop slower yet.  I'm not sure if there was also some breeze-induced motion on the leaves there as some are much more blurred than others.  It was just hard to see and judge focus on top of that.

I've now scaled the Fuji and Oly shots to similar size for comparison..  (hmmm.. musta been a late nite, couldn't even keep my landscape=portrait orientation consistent!)

The reason I even started this test was I noticed the 7d2 AF acting unexpectedly in some low light indoors situations.  I was merely playing with the lens to see what its close-focus abilities were like.  I was aiming at a bright stripey textured throw rug with lots of color and contrast and well within the min focus distance when I found the 7d2 refused to AF.  It would just hunt, with in-focus quickly passing thru as it racked each way.  None of my ML cameras had any issues with this and I don't recall any of my other SLRs struggling with such a focus target.  I'll test more if I have time in the next few days as I was puzzled and not impressed by that example.


I can't repeat these exact tests as we just had a dump of snow so the lighting and targets are now quite different.

34
You might compare using the 7D MK II sensor based system(Live AF), that might provide a better comparison when comparing with a different cameras sensor based AF system.

I actually wanted to compare the latest PDAF system of the 7D2 to the hybrid AF system of the Fuji and the purely CDAF system of the little Olympus.
FWIW I did go back out last night to try live-view AF on the 7D2 and it failed to gain-up enough to even see the 3rd subject..  nothing, nada, black screen.  As as bad as the Oly performed in that situation.  I did not bother with trying it on the slightly brighter scenes.  It may have worked on those since there was greater contrast but that wasn't what I had intended to test.
I remember that one of the things I really like about my old 5D2 was that in very low light scenes like this, live-view would gain-up very well to at least provide a noisy but usable view where one could effect manual focus.  The Fuji's EVF performed very well in this situation but still made it difficult to judge when the leaves were in good focus as the MF ring on the lens is frustratingly slow in response.  Fuji users are hoping they'll add an acceleration curve function to the MF ring to make MF easier and now I can see why.

35
Just got my 7d2 recently and haven't had time to play with it.
So I just did some very informal quick AF testing outside.  I compared it with my Fuji XT1 and my Olympus EM-10.
Lenses used were Canon EF 24-70mm f/4 L IS, Fuji  XF 55-200mm f/3.5-4.8 OIS, and Panasonic 45-150mm f/4-5.6 respectively.
I used the Canon lens at 70mm, same with the Fuji, and the MFT system I set to about 55mm to provide similar angles of view.
All shots were hand held, Aperture priority mode, iso manually set to 12800, no EV comp and center AF points.

My back yard's fairly dark at night; ~ EV 0 to EV -1 where I was shooting.
exposures were:
1/8 @ f/4.4 @ 12800iso Oly EM10
1/3 to 1/2 @ f/4 @ 12800iso Fuji XT1
1/3 to 1/2 @ f/4 @ 12800iso Canon 7d2

What I found was the 7d2 struggled a little to AF in that light with that lens.  2 out of 3 test subjects it succeeded but it was the slowest camera of the 3 to focus in those conditions.  The 3rd subject was too dark and low contrast for it to CDAF and it was completely useless in live-view.  I think my old 5d2 had decent live view under such conditions.
I was able to effect a rough manual focus however.

The Fuji XT1 was able to provide a bright, if noisy, display of the scene in its EVF and it nailed 2 out of 3 test subjects very quickly and allowed me to MF the 3rd one but it was not easy or very successful.

The Oly also nailed the first 2 test subjects, almost as quickly as the Fuji, but its display was much dimmer and was completely unable to provide any assistance on the 3rd subject.  It seemed to gain-up in a monochrome mode during AF of the first 2 subjects.

So pushing the low light AF limits with these 3 cameras tells me something I didn't expect.
Fuji's flagship, at 2/3 the price of the 7D2, was able to AF in dimmer light using its sensor-based AF system faster than Canon's latest and greatest AF system.  Something worth considering if you shoot in dim venues.
The budget level Olympus EM-10 performed better than I thought it would under those conditions.

I already know the frustrating lack of speed these 2 mirrorless cameras have when used with long lenses even in good daylight but I am keen to see what the 7d2 will do with my old 100-400mm L lens in daylight and twilight conditions.  That is what I bought it for and I hope it will perform as well or better than my original 7D under those conditions.

The backyard test subjects were, in order:
1. a galvanized pole reflecting a light source with a dark background in the distance
2. a dried thornapple seed pod with a dark background in the near distance, and the most difficult was
3. a mass of mountain ash twigs and leaves.  Images of them below are reduced from the 7d2's ooc jpgs at 1/8 linear scale.

36
Landscape / Re: Beautiful sunsets
« on: November 07, 2014, 10:45:10 PM »
Couple of sunset shots from the River Alde in South Eastern England. Both with 5DII, one with 40mm pancake, the other with 50/f1.4

I quite like the one with the totally glassy water

37

Hmm I don't see that at all. The 7D2 plot for SNR is above the OM-10 the entire length ISO100 to the very top. are you sure you plugged in the correct cameras?


I'm seeing the 7d2's DR chart exceeding the EM10's above base ISO.

But I'm seeing the EM10's SNR plots exceeding the 7D2's for all ISOs (ani-gif below)

So I'm expecting the APS-C sensor to have a bit more DR than the MFT one, just based on size-physics, but I'm puzzled why it's not reflected in the SNR chart when the 18% gray points on the plot all have the Oly slightly superior.

EDIT - depending on how your browser's set, you may have to click the gif link below to open it in a new window for the animation to compare.

38
It's shocking, IHMO, that the new 7DII has lower scores than cameras with even smaller sensors.

Only for lower ISO dynamic range. (of course that can be quite important for some shots)

Not for say shooting at ISO4000. The 7D2 does better than any 4/3rds there.

I was just looking at the raw SNR charts for the 7d2 vs EM10 on DxOmark - looks like the little MFT Oly is a match or win over most of the chart from base to top ISO.  The Oly's a bit less colorblind too.

EDIT: so the DR plots I'm seeing are a little puzzling considering the SNR chart /edit

Still, I'm getting a 7d2 for the AF system which will undoubtedly blow the Oly into the weeds for anything requiring fast focus with long lenses.

39
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon 7D Mark II - DXOMark Review
« on: November 05, 2014, 11:19:41 PM »
seems the 7d2 may still have some ugly noise structure, if not the heavy banding of its predecessor, based on some of the shots in the review here and elsewhere.

www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/7DII-ISO-800-6400.jpg

but that kind of noise is still workable

Not at all surprised that dxo-measured DR has barely improved at base and low iso.
However, the AF system, weather-sealing and speed still appeal to me, so I'll be getting one.
I missed the performance aspect of my old 7d, even if I despised the stripey low ISO performance.  The 7d2 gives me a bunch of useful upgrades, misses a few it should have had, and the sensor is... possible Canon's best crop sensor yet, if not nearly as good as the competitors.'

All that will, to me, provide a body that is "good enough" for some of the long lens wildlife type shots I'll use it for or some fast paced action shooting.  if I didn't still have a decent stock of Canon EF/s glass I would not bother with it.
If I find it still underwhelms, out it goes, and the rest of the $L lenses with it.  This thing will be my make-or-break decision on maintaining higher end Canon crop gear.  I can see MFT bodies coming up another notch or 2 in the next 2 years, possibly enough to challenge even sports-shooting DSLRs for capability as they're already close to par for IQ.

40
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Roger Cicala cracks open 7D II!
« on: November 05, 2014, 01:24:23 AM »
As always, he gets to the nooks and crevices to get the answer  ;D.

Thanks for the link, interesting how many points there are where sealing is required/possible and wasn't there on the already "outdoor" 7d1.

yes, I quite like what I see here for attention to detail in the build of the thing.
I wonder how the oft' touted weather-proof Pentax bodies are built in comparison.

41
Landscape / Re: Beautiful sunsets
« on: November 02, 2014, 01:58:14 AM »
Slovenian highest mountain - Triglav, 2864 m.

I really like your picture. Well done climber.

Ditto, very nice image

42
Lenses / Re: EF 24-70mm f/4 L IS - Discontinued?
« on: November 02, 2014, 01:57:10 AM »
How many times have we heard of a salesman telling someone that a certain product has been discontinued and offer to sell them something more expensive that just happens to be in stock.

yeah it might just be this sort of nonsense

i can't fathom them pulling this new lens, it performs well, what other zoom performs better at 24mm than this other than the larger, heavier, much more expensive 24-70 II?

maybe they were just trying to upsell the 24-70 II (which is a great lens though)

certainly wasn't an upsell tactic in this case
but could have something to do with Canon re-jigging how they stock and kit the lens for the Cdn market.
Maybe just a temporary stop on orders while the 7D2 kits get fulfilled with allocated lenses.
Only spoke to one other supplier today, they were not aware of any discontinuation or even order holdbacks due to allocation.  So I might just have been fed something that was store-chain specific.
I think this would be a nice lens to see kitted with 6D or even a crop body for about $400-450 extra.

43
Lenses / Re: EF 24-70mm f/4 L IS - Discontinued?
« on: November 01, 2014, 01:43:45 AM »
Despite the slow sales i was told of I think it's still quite a desirable lens with a good performance, features and price compromise.  Which is why i find this hard to believe.

Considering the blow-out price they had them at for 7D2 preorders ($400!) it seems plausible they're trying to clear the (cdn) channel of stock for some reason.  That's a ~65% discount from MSRP!  I've never seen a Canon discount that big on such a young product.  If not outright discontinued, perhaps they're being moved for an update of some sort. I'm scratching at straws here... ???  I'll try do some digging Saturday with some other suppliers.

44
Lenses / EF 24-70mm f/4 L IS - Discontinued?
« on: November 01, 2014, 12:38:55 AM »
I was told, today, that this lens, which didn't sell very well compared to the pricier f/2.8 v2, is no longer available, at least in Canada.
Heard that at one of my local camera stores. (sales ratio about 7:1 for the 2.8/4)

Can anyone confirm this?

45
EOS Bodies / Re: EOS 7D Mark II Shipping October 30, 2014
« on: October 30, 2014, 01:18:58 PM »
Just got a call from my LCS in AB Canada and my 7D2 is ready for pickup this morning, (Oct 30)
ouch, my aching VISA card!

looking fwd to testing it, shooting some lens cap tests to push in post and reporting what I find, despite being pressed for time from every direction right now.

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