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Messages - bdunbar79

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1876
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Camera Crossroads :)
« on: August 02, 2012, 03:11:37 PM »
That's actually a superb idea.  Thanks.
No problem, it's easy to spend other people's money. I'll accept one of the 5dIII's as my commission  ;)

You're assuming I SHOULD have purchased anything I did :)
Best I can do is a discount :)

1877
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Camera Crossroads :)
« on: August 02, 2012, 02:31:36 PM »
My current position is to sell a 5D3, the 1D4, and the 1Ds3, and buying a 1DX, giving me a pair of 1DX's and a 5D3.  I could probably budget down the road either a newer 400mm lens or a 500mm lens.  I'm not in a bind or anything, I was just looking for some opinions on what you might do if you were going to primarily shoot sports, but do some weddings here and there.  Thanks!
What about ending up with a two 1DX's and the 1D4? The 1DX's would more than cover you for pretty much everything (indoors, weddings, etc), and the 1DIV would allow your 400mm lens to cover the track portions you need the extra reach for. The re-sale value difference between the 5dIII and 1D4 is what, $1000? Compare that to maybe needing to buy the 500mm or 600mm and that's nothing.

Two 1DX's and a 5dIII just seems odd...I'm not sure you'd ever actually use the 5dIII, because the 1DX does everything it does, only better.

That's actually a superb idea.  Thanks.

1878
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 1DX vs 5D3
« on: August 02, 2012, 02:15:52 PM »
I think then we can eliminate high ISO comparisons.  They don't seem to be relevant.  I think we should look at underexposure/overexposure and shadow detail recovery.  Also low ISO color rendition.

1879
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Camera Crossroads :)
« on: August 02, 2012, 02:15:00 PM »
I am not in your league, being a amateur (with a few paid gigs a year). However, I think it is hard to weigh in given that I don't know your sports (wast difference if it is soccer, American footbal, or basket), so it is hard to know your range requirements. Is the sports you shoot fast sports? If so, I would opt for another 1DX, then you have two 1DX with a 70-200 F2.8 IS II on one, and a 500 on the other?

Thanks for responding.  Yeah it's hard to say.  I'd say at track and field, 400 might be a tad short for long distance curve shots for fast action relay hand offs, etc.  I don't really want to buy a 500mm lens for track only.  The other sports yes, are fast action.  Football I think given the fact that I'll be on the sidelines 400mm is plenty and most of the time I'd be shooting with a 300mm lens anyways.  Indoor sports won't require anything longer than 200mm.  I guess I just don't know if the sacrifice in IQ with the 1D4 for the extra reach is worth it.  I know for indoor sports I won't use the 1D4 because I just don't like the high ISO (6400) on that camera vs. the 1DX and 5D3.  It's a tough decision.

1880
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 1DX vs 5D3
« on: August 02, 2012, 02:00:08 PM »
So you're using auto ISO -- that's what I wasn't clear on since that means everything wasn't set to manual.  As I said earlier, it already been demonstrated that the 5D3 produces a brighter image with the exact same settings at the 1DX.  If you set everything to manual (including ISO) with the exact same settings, the resulting image will be brighter on the 5D3 than the 1DX.

The real-world application of this is that with a fixed shutter and aperture, you can shoot a properly exposed image with a 1DX and the same properly exposed image on the 5D3 will have a lower ISO.  So when it comes to comparing high ISO image quality, it's not a valid comparison to look at the same ISO side by side.  In real-world shooting you would need to compare a 6400 1DX image with a 5000 5D3 image.  This I believe is exactly what you showed in your testing.  Given that balance, the 1DX may not have any edge in high ISO over the 1DX.  I've heard someone propose Canon did this on purpose to give the 1DX an apparent edge in high ISO.

Ok Chris, I understand you now.  Got it.  I agree, probably no real ISO advantage.

1881
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 1DX vs 5D3
« on: August 02, 2012, 01:36:01 PM »
If everything is set to manual, then the camera isn't metering anything.  The only time metering would come into play is when you're in an AV, TV, or auto ISO mode and the camera is deciding what settings to choose.  If everything is on manual, then you are doing the metering not the camera.  Am I missing something? 

If you do want to test how the cameras each meter (and that is a valid question) you need to put them both in the same auto mode and shoot with identical focus points.  When you do that you'll see the 5D3 and 1DX behave quite differently, specifically because of the focal point-weighted metering on the 1DX.

I'm lost.  The camera meters out of the same point on both cameras.  The 1DX only meters out of a focus point on spot metering.  I didn't use spot metering, I used center weighted average.  Second point I'm lost on, is that when the camera tells me it's properly exposed (the meter on the right hand side on 1DX and bottom on 5D3) the brightness is different on each camera.  0 EV on 1DX is different than 0 EV on 5D Mark III.  This is a very simple test.  You can shoot in auto ISO at 1/100, f/8, and get ISO 6400 on the 5D3 and ISO 5000 on the 1DX.  That is very similar.  However, upon inspection of the photos, the exposure is brighter on the 5D3.  Well of course, it's ISO is higher.  The point is that it gave correct exposure at a brighter image than the 1DX did.  Again, a very simple thing.

And I don't know why people can't understand that AF-point metering is for spot metering.  CWA comes out of the CENTER.  It doesn't matter which camera you are using.  Besides, why is it so hard to understand that I used the center AF point anyways in all of my shots?

I cannot explain this again, so I'm sorry if I'm not being clear.

1882
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Camera Crossroads :)
« on: August 02, 2012, 12:40:50 PM »
Well I'm looking for opinions right now.  My only job with photography, it looks like this year, will be sports.  Nothing but college sports.  I have a 1DX, 2 5D3's I was shooting weddings with, a 1D4, and a 1Ds3.  Obviously now I don't need all of those cameras since weddings will go to about nil and it'll be all about sports.  I need 2 bodies at each sporting event.  Obviously if I kept my cameras I'd go 1DX/1D4.  However, if I sold some cameras, I could afford another 1DX and maybe a longer lens (currently have the 400 f/2.8L IS which I think is plenty long on the 1D4, but if I didn't have the 1D4, not sure for track). 

My current position is to sell a 5D3, the 1D4, and the 1Ds3, and buying a 1DX, giving me a pair of 1DX's and a 5D3.  I could probably budget down the road either a newer 400mm lens or a 500mm lens.  I'm not in a bind or anything, I was just looking for some opinions on what you might do if you were going to primarily shoot sports, but do some weddings here and there.  Thanks!

1883
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 1DX vs 5D3
« on: August 02, 2012, 10:15:07 AM »
Just a quick followup question:  Is it that the 1D bodies are metering more accurately or just differently?  After all they are just tools for us to use.  If you are able to nail the exposure by over-riding the exposure while in AV mode or in manual when you understand the nuances of your particular body.... does it really matter?

The 1DX uses the focus point to meter, which the 5D3 does not (so I'm told).  After the last shoot I did with both cameras, I can with certainly say the 1DX meters much more accurately on the subject than the 5D3 does.  The 5D3 was getting thrown off by bright backgrounds or lights on the out edges of the frame, whereas the 1DX was pretty much spot-on for the actual subject in the photos.

If you're trying to compare the exposures of one camera to the other, these examples aren't all that useful because it seems automated setting are in use.   However, from what I have seen on other reviews, with everything set to manual, the 5D3 is about 1/3 stop brighter than the exact same exposure settings on the 1DX.  Check out the review someone posted for nighttime photography.  I have heard that attributed to sensor programming, but I think that was just an educated guess.

No.  Everything was set to manual.  And I used center AF point for all shots.  Where are you getting that anything was automatic?  Nothing was automatic.  And metering center-weighted average is the SAME on all cameras.  How can you center-weight average through any other area but the CENTER?  Spot metering yes, but all the others no.  Do you know what I'm saying?  How is this not useful?

1884
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 1DX vs 5D3
« on: August 02, 2012, 09:52:39 AM »
You're right.  Except the photos look different.  They are lighted differently, when they all said exposure was the same, the 5D3 registered 10,000 vs. 6400 and lo and behold, it was brighter.  I don't know why, but it appears as though the 1D bodies are metering more accurately.  I'm not sure if Canon is putting some technology in the 1D bodies that they are NOT putting in the 5D bodies, or what.  You're right though, 6400 vs. 10,000 is not a full stop.  I'm just pointing out that there is a difference.

Just a quick followup question:  Is it that the 1D bodies are metering more accurately or just differently?  After all they are just tools for us to use.  If you are able to nail the exposure by over-riding the exposure while in AV mode or in manual when you understand the nuances of your particular body.... does it really matter?

No, it doesn't matter at all.  You just set the 5D3, for instance, to expose at -2/3?  Something like that.  I've had to do this with the 7D.  The only thing I saw was that I was able to push the shadows on the 1DX shot, but that's not conclusive because that was just one shot in a controlled environment.  But no, it's just a differing of metering.  Why it does what it does is beyond the scope of what I'm doing.

1885
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Bryan Carnathan's 1D X Review Is Finished
« on: August 02, 2012, 09:42:39 AM »
There has been much focus on low light/high iso for the 1DX

I haven't been able to see much reporting on high light/low iso yet.

Brian,

Let's do this.  This weekend I'll shoot at ISO 50 on the 1DX and 1Ds3.  With a tripod of course.

1886
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 1DX vs 5D3
« on: August 02, 2012, 09:41:03 AM »
drjlo,

That's EXACTLY what I was talking about.  Perfect example.  I'll try to do similar shots with both cameras this weekend.

1887
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 1DX vs 5D3
« on: August 02, 2012, 09:39:01 AM »
You're right.  Except the photos look different.  They are lighted differently, when they all said exposure was the same, the 5D3 registered 10,000 vs. 6400 and lo and behold, it was brighter.  I don't know why, but it appears as though the 1D bodies are metering more accurately.  I'm not sure if Canon is putting some technology in the 1D bodies that they are NOT putting in the 5D bodies, or what.  You're right though, 6400 vs. 10,000 is not a full stop.  I'm just pointing out that there is a difference.

1888
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 1DX vs 5D3
« on: August 02, 2012, 12:33:55 AM »
Sorry, I've been dealing with real smartass posts on another forum.  My apologies, really. 

Again, sorry, I'll provide the information you ask:

For the overexposure, it was very interesting.  I set both cameras to auto ISO, f/8, 1/30s, and the 5D3 read 10,000 for a +2EC whereas the 1DX read ISO 6400 for the +2EC.  This is very, very fascinating to me.  Do you know what it means?  I'm not sure.

Why does ISO 6400 on the 1DX read +2EC but it takes ISO 10,000 on the 5D3 to read +2EC?

1889
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 1DX vs 5D3
« on: August 02, 2012, 12:29:35 AM »
That is very interesting.

The D800 fans say how much more they can push the shadows - perhaps we are seeing that against the 5DIII that is true - but against the 1DX that may not be true or not so obvious in the field. +2 is as much as I would expect.

What's interesting too, is that I can "fix" the 1DX image very easily, whereas the 5D3 I cannot do so that easily.  Notice how slightly "darker" the 1D bodies expose vs. the 5D3, which leads me to believe at least better metering accuracy.  Whether this means much in the field I doubt, especially for outdoor shots.


1890
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 1DX vs 5D3
« on: August 02, 2012, 12:15:59 AM »
Let me first add these 1Ds3 and 1D4 photos.  I couldn't push the 1Ds3 much, due to max ISO value, but I could the 1D4, which again, did not fall apart.

The 1DX and 1D4 don't fall apart and clearly the 5D3 does.  Isn't that what it looks like?


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