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Messages - bdunbar79

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1876
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Camera Crossroads :)
« on: August 02, 2012, 07:08:36 PM »
Keeping a 5d3 will be valuable for its silent shutter if you shoot golf, tennis anything where someone might brain you with a club or raquet if they get the sh!ts on also if you are mainly shooting with 2 1 series bodies then you just keep it in you bag with a wide lens on to grab the odd total scene shot

Tennis is a concern yes.  I've not done tennis before.  Basketball is loud anyways and football, well...

I'll probably, no matter what, hang on to the 5D Mark III, whether I end up with a pair of 1DX's or not.  I would really like to keep one of my highest mp cameras.  If I had just a bit more money I'd hang on to the 1Ds3 but economically it may not make sense.

1877
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Camera Crossroads :)
« on: August 02, 2012, 06:33:02 PM »
As long as you guys think 18mp is no big deal vs. 22mp, I'm comfortable with that decision.

I've got my 1DX but I'm going to hold out for a high megapixel camera like a 1DXs or something as a second body. Until then I will continue to use my 5D2 and 1D4!

Mark, if 400mm is plenty long for any sports for you on a FF camera, I can sell the 1D4 and keep the 5D Mark III, which I really like.  I think 2 1DX's for sports and the 5D3 for high mp camera sounds good too.  However, if 400mm is a bit short in your opinion, I will keep the 1D4 and wait like you are for a higher mp camera.  Problem is I can't see much difference 18 vs 22mp, but that's still 4000 less pixels. 

wickidwombat,

If I went that route, of course you can look at purchasing the 1D4.  I bought it in early May to finish up the outdoor track season and that's all I've shot with it.  When purchased, the EOS Utility showed something like 7k actuations.  I may have 10k total, but I'll run the Utility again.  I guess I could always keep the 1Ds3, but that doesn't do well in low light and I will need that.

Oh decisions, decisions.

1878
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 1DX vs 5D3
« on: August 02, 2012, 04:27:53 PM »
I am and have been convinced that you are on to something here.  Let me get back with you this afternoon with some test shots of real things.  I am going to do a portrait shot with 135 f/2L lens this evening. The perfect test shot will be in tungsten lighting.  Stay tuned.  Do you want the RAW or TIF files?  Let me know, I have your email addy.

1879
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Camera Crossroads :)
« on: August 02, 2012, 04:15:38 PM »
As long as you guys think 18mp is no big deal vs. 22mp, I'm comfortable with that decision.

1880
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Camera Crossroads :)
« on: August 02, 2012, 03:40:26 PM »
Thanks guys.  As much as I like my 22mp cameras, they're not going to make me any money whereas the 1DX and 1D4 will.  18mp is plenty for wedding photography anyways, as I usually only crop down to about 12-14mp off a 21mp shot.  And Mt. Spokane, thanks for the heads up on the 200-400L potential announcement this fall.  That would certainly come in handy down the road. 

1881
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Camera Crossroads :)
« on: August 02, 2012, 03:11:37 PM »
That's actually a superb idea.  Thanks.
No problem, it's easy to spend other people's money. I'll accept one of the 5dIII's as my commission  ;)

You're assuming I SHOULD have purchased anything I did :)
Best I can do is a discount :)

1882
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Camera Crossroads :)
« on: August 02, 2012, 02:31:36 PM »
My current position is to sell a 5D3, the 1D4, and the 1Ds3, and buying a 1DX, giving me a pair of 1DX's and a 5D3.  I could probably budget down the road either a newer 400mm lens or a 500mm lens.  I'm not in a bind or anything, I was just looking for some opinions on what you might do if you were going to primarily shoot sports, but do some weddings here and there.  Thanks!
What about ending up with a two 1DX's and the 1D4? The 1DX's would more than cover you for pretty much everything (indoors, weddings, etc), and the 1DIV would allow your 400mm lens to cover the track portions you need the extra reach for. The re-sale value difference between the 5dIII and 1D4 is what, $1000? Compare that to maybe needing to buy the 500mm or 600mm and that's nothing.

Two 1DX's and a 5dIII just seems odd...I'm not sure you'd ever actually use the 5dIII, because the 1DX does everything it does, only better.

That's actually a superb idea.  Thanks.

1883
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 1DX vs 5D3
« on: August 02, 2012, 02:15:52 PM »
I think then we can eliminate high ISO comparisons.  They don't seem to be relevant.  I think we should look at underexposure/overexposure and shadow detail recovery.  Also low ISO color rendition.

1884
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Camera Crossroads :)
« on: August 02, 2012, 02:15:00 PM »
I am not in your league, being a amateur (with a few paid gigs a year). However, I think it is hard to weigh in given that I don't know your sports (wast difference if it is soccer, American footbal, or basket), so it is hard to know your range requirements. Is the sports you shoot fast sports? If so, I would opt for another 1DX, then you have two 1DX with a 70-200 F2.8 IS II on one, and a 500 on the other?

Thanks for responding.  Yeah it's hard to say.  I'd say at track and field, 400 might be a tad short for long distance curve shots for fast action relay hand offs, etc.  I don't really want to buy a 500mm lens for track only.  The other sports yes, are fast action.  Football I think given the fact that I'll be on the sidelines 400mm is plenty and most of the time I'd be shooting with a 300mm lens anyways.  Indoor sports won't require anything longer than 200mm.  I guess I just don't know if the sacrifice in IQ with the 1D4 for the extra reach is worth it.  I know for indoor sports I won't use the 1D4 because I just don't like the high ISO (6400) on that camera vs. the 1DX and 5D3.  It's a tough decision.

1885
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 1DX vs 5D3
« on: August 02, 2012, 02:00:08 PM »
So you're using auto ISO -- that's what I wasn't clear on since that means everything wasn't set to manual.  As I said earlier, it already been demonstrated that the 5D3 produces a brighter image with the exact same settings at the 1DX.  If you set everything to manual (including ISO) with the exact same settings, the resulting image will be brighter on the 5D3 than the 1DX.

The real-world application of this is that with a fixed shutter and aperture, you can shoot a properly exposed image with a 1DX and the same properly exposed image on the 5D3 will have a lower ISO.  So when it comes to comparing high ISO image quality, it's not a valid comparison to look at the same ISO side by side.  In real-world shooting you would need to compare a 6400 1DX image with a 5000 5D3 image.  This I believe is exactly what you showed in your testing.  Given that balance, the 1DX may not have any edge in high ISO over the 1DX.  I've heard someone propose Canon did this on purpose to give the 1DX an apparent edge in high ISO.

Ok Chris, I understand you now.  Got it.  I agree, probably no real ISO advantage.

1886
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 1DX vs 5D3
« on: August 02, 2012, 01:36:01 PM »
If everything is set to manual, then the camera isn't metering anything.  The only time metering would come into play is when you're in an AV, TV, or auto ISO mode and the camera is deciding what settings to choose.  If everything is on manual, then you are doing the metering not the camera.  Am I missing something? 

If you do want to test how the cameras each meter (and that is a valid question) you need to put them both in the same auto mode and shoot with identical focus points.  When you do that you'll see the 5D3 and 1DX behave quite differently, specifically because of the focal point-weighted metering on the 1DX.

I'm lost.  The camera meters out of the same point on both cameras.  The 1DX only meters out of a focus point on spot metering.  I didn't use spot metering, I used center weighted average.  Second point I'm lost on, is that when the camera tells me it's properly exposed (the meter on the right hand side on 1DX and bottom on 5D3) the brightness is different on each camera.  0 EV on 1DX is different than 0 EV on 5D Mark III.  This is a very simple test.  You can shoot in auto ISO at 1/100, f/8, and get ISO 6400 on the 5D3 and ISO 5000 on the 1DX.  That is very similar.  However, upon inspection of the photos, the exposure is brighter on the 5D3.  Well of course, it's ISO is higher.  The point is that it gave correct exposure at a brighter image than the 1DX did.  Again, a very simple thing.

And I don't know why people can't understand that AF-point metering is for spot metering.  CWA comes out of the CENTER.  It doesn't matter which camera you are using.  Besides, why is it so hard to understand that I used the center AF point anyways in all of my shots?

I cannot explain this again, so I'm sorry if I'm not being clear.

1887
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Camera Crossroads :)
« on: August 02, 2012, 12:40:50 PM »
Well I'm looking for opinions right now.  My only job with photography, it looks like this year, will be sports.  Nothing but college sports.  I have a 1DX, 2 5D3's I was shooting weddings with, a 1D4, and a 1Ds3.  Obviously now I don't need all of those cameras since weddings will go to about nil and it'll be all about sports.  I need 2 bodies at each sporting event.  Obviously if I kept my cameras I'd go 1DX/1D4.  However, if I sold some cameras, I could afford another 1DX and maybe a longer lens (currently have the 400 f/2.8L IS which I think is plenty long on the 1D4, but if I didn't have the 1D4, not sure for track). 

My current position is to sell a 5D3, the 1D4, and the 1Ds3, and buying a 1DX, giving me a pair of 1DX's and a 5D3.  I could probably budget down the road either a newer 400mm lens or a 500mm lens.  I'm not in a bind or anything, I was just looking for some opinions on what you might do if you were going to primarily shoot sports, but do some weddings here and there.  Thanks!

1888
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 1DX vs 5D3
« on: August 02, 2012, 10:15:07 AM »
Just a quick followup question:  Is it that the 1D bodies are metering more accurately or just differently?  After all they are just tools for us to use.  If you are able to nail the exposure by over-riding the exposure while in AV mode or in manual when you understand the nuances of your particular body.... does it really matter?

The 1DX uses the focus point to meter, which the 5D3 does not (so I'm told).  After the last shoot I did with both cameras, I can with certainly say the 1DX meters much more accurately on the subject than the 5D3 does.  The 5D3 was getting thrown off by bright backgrounds or lights on the out edges of the frame, whereas the 1DX was pretty much spot-on for the actual subject in the photos.

If you're trying to compare the exposures of one camera to the other, these examples aren't all that useful because it seems automated setting are in use.   However, from what I have seen on other reviews, with everything set to manual, the 5D3 is about 1/3 stop brighter than the exact same exposure settings on the 1DX.  Check out the review someone posted for nighttime photography.  I have heard that attributed to sensor programming, but I think that was just an educated guess.

No.  Everything was set to manual.  And I used center AF point for all shots.  Where are you getting that anything was automatic?  Nothing was automatic.  And metering center-weighted average is the SAME on all cameras.  How can you center-weight average through any other area but the CENTER?  Spot metering yes, but all the others no.  Do you know what I'm saying?  How is this not useful?

1889
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 1DX vs 5D3
« on: August 02, 2012, 09:52:39 AM »
You're right.  Except the photos look different.  They are lighted differently, when they all said exposure was the same, the 5D3 registered 10,000 vs. 6400 and lo and behold, it was brighter.  I don't know why, but it appears as though the 1D bodies are metering more accurately.  I'm not sure if Canon is putting some technology in the 1D bodies that they are NOT putting in the 5D bodies, or what.  You're right though, 6400 vs. 10,000 is not a full stop.  I'm just pointing out that there is a difference.

Just a quick followup question:  Is it that the 1D bodies are metering more accurately or just differently?  After all they are just tools for us to use.  If you are able to nail the exposure by over-riding the exposure while in AV mode or in manual when you understand the nuances of your particular body.... does it really matter?

No, it doesn't matter at all.  You just set the 5D3, for instance, to expose at -2/3?  Something like that.  I've had to do this with the 7D.  The only thing I saw was that I was able to push the shadows on the 1DX shot, but that's not conclusive because that was just one shot in a controlled environment.  But no, it's just a differing of metering.  Why it does what it does is beyond the scope of what I'm doing.

1890
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Bryan Carnathan's 1D X Review Is Finished
« on: August 02, 2012, 09:42:39 AM »
There has been much focus on low light/high iso for the 1DX

I haven't been able to see much reporting on high light/low iso yet.

Brian,

Let's do this.  This weekend I'll shoot at ISO 50 on the 1DX and 1Ds3.  With a tripod of course.

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