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1021
Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« on: May 08, 2013, 10:16:56 AM »

So, if I read your quoted part correctly...

I could join CC paid....download the archived version (current version?) of CS6, which would run stand alone, not requiring CC account, and then quit and still have CS6 which would run indefinitely?

If so, that sounds like a bit of a bargain...?

cayenne

Umm...Not quite. From the Adobe website: If you purchased an annual individual membership plan and you cancel after the first 30 days but before meeting the 12-month commitment date, you will be charged 50% of the remaining amount left on your contract.

I suppose that would still be cheaper, but not as much of a bargain as you may be thinking.

Now, to respond to some of the recent comments:

I have always been a legal user of Adobe products. To suggest that the complaints that are showing up all across the Internet are primarily from people who purchased the software is ridiculous. As others have pointed out, those who buy pirated software aren't going to be deterred by this. They aren't the ones who complain. It is those of us who play by the rules.

Reminds me of the gun control argument – criminals steal guns and use them illegally, so let's make it hard for persons to own guns legally.

To the statement that Adobe products are professional and you shouldn't be using them if you can't afford to pay whatever they want to charge. Well, I suppose that is their right, but, like Canon, Adobe could not survive on their professional users alone. It is the extensive base of non-professionals who provide the financial support for the company. Photoshop, in particular, has long been marketed to amateurs and hobbyists.

And, even for professionals, I don't know of too many business people who can just arbitrarily pass on every increased cost to their customers. Especially photographers, who are increasingly battling one another for a shrinking pie.

As for the claim that these products have been in development for decades. So what? Also, let's remember that Adobe didn't get to where they are by innovation alone. A large part of their success has come from swallowing up other companies like Aldus and Macromedia.

But, in the end, what I keep coming back to is this: If this is such a great deal for the customer, why is it mandatory?

1022
Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« on: May 07, 2013, 09:29:19 PM »
Here is a bit of irony. I went to the Adobe website today just to learn a bit more. I was surprised at all the applications available. Cool things that I might want to try.

So, okay. If they had sent me an offer to voluntarily try out the Cloud at $20 a month, I probably would have felt like it was a real bargain and jumped at the chance, so long as I knew that I could go back to the old system if I found it wasn't worthwhile. But instead of enticing customers to try it out, they have completely mismanaged the whole thing by shoving it down customers throats.

Interestingly, their own forum boards are filled with disgruntled customers and their big Adobe Max confab has now one big negative story coming out of it. As someone who has spent most of my working life helping people communicate with the public, I can only imagine the conversations that are going on in their PR department. This is exactly the sort of thing that happens when CEOS, Engineers and Accountants drive the agenda and don't listen to their communications people.

1023
Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« on: May 07, 2013, 04:00:12 PM »
A swap to this model of using Adope CS6 will cause some problems for big organisations that have to secure their datas .
The head of the IT department in the organisation where I work, is in doubt whether the state bureaus is allowing to open the firewall/safety-solutions to use this cloud based software. It is to risky. They are in fear to get hacked.
And we own really a lot of CS6 licences.

Okay, repeat after me: This is NOT a cloud application. This is Not a cloud application.

From Adobe's website: "And, as always, your applications live on your desktop, not in a browser and not in the cloud."

It is just a confusingly-named marketing scheme.

1024
Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« on: May 07, 2013, 02:07:36 PM »
Can't stop commenting on this thread -- sorry.

One thing people need to understand is that to Adobe, "Cloud" is just a marketing name. This is not a true "cloud" application. Ironic for a software company, but apparently somebody in marketing thought "cloud" sounded cool and modern.

As others have pointed out, the software gets downloaded on your machine just like today. The only difference is that if you stop paying, they nuke it.

Also, when people do their calculations, many here are comparing the subscription price to the full version costs. And, yes, it can look like a good deal if you are new to the applications and have to buy a brand new full version. But, I suspect most people are "upgraders" like myself, who bought a full version years ago and upgraded and expanded their options when Adobe offered deals.

I think I probably started with one license for Pagemaker, got that converted to InDesign and then, as Adobe started offering bundles, they gave owners of individual products a decent (but still steep) price to expand. Point is, you should compare the price of this subscription to the upgrade price, not the full retail price. Second point on this, Adobe only upgraded a "full" step every two years - Release version 1 in year one, version 1.5 in year two and then version 2 in year three. The cost for the .5 versions was usually much smaller and Adobe considered the full number versions as the true upgrades. So, you really only needed to pay every two years to remain current.

So, if you want to get an accurate picture of just how much more this is costing, take the cost of a two-year subscription and compare that to the cost of an upgrade. CS6 Design and Web Premium Upgrade right now is $375. Two year cost would be less than $16/month. So, even those on the "bargain" $20/month plan will be paying more and Adobe is only promising the $20/month price for one year.

Yeah, I'll probably go ahead and pony up for the $20 month plan in the first year. But I will be watching the market, watching what competition emerges and really evaluating my needs. As it stands now, I seldom use anything but Dreamweaver and Photoshop, with the occasional use of InDesign. Flash is dead, so that's of no use. I've kept buying because I figured it was worth the investment to stay current for the times when I do need one of the other programs, but now I will use the next year to take a serious look at what I do use and how often. Dreamweaver is fast becoming unnecessary with the growth of PHP. For the little I use InDesign, I can keep the CSS6 version pretty much forever. So the deciding factor will be what Photoshop competitors emerge.

Sorry for the long winded rant.

1025
Software & Accessories / Re: Alternatives to Adobe Software
« on: May 07, 2013, 10:39:03 AM »
Unfortunately there isn't a good alternative to Photoshop right now. But that doesn't mean that will always be the case.

Here is how I see this playing out over the next year:

1) Adobe succeeds in getting a lot of users to buy into the "Creative Cloud" system at the introductory price, but like Canon and Nikon have found with rebates, they soon learn that the reduced price becomes the expected price. Migrating those customers to the "real" price proves a lot harder than they thought.

2) Many Photoshop-only users migrate to Lightroom and find that with third-party plug-ins they can find work-arounds for most photo processing. Adobe's investors start to wonder why the company made a decision that has people migrating from the more costly product to the less expensive product.

3) Corel suddenly finds itself a hot prospect for acquisition. Google buys Corel. First product is "Word Perfect by Google" which replaces Google Docs in the real cloud and a full version is offered for download at a deep discount. Microsoft starts scratching their head wondering "what did we do?"

4) Google's puts some cash behind Corel's graphic suite products, merges the NIK and Corel teams, promotes combined products at deep discount and uses the next year to upgrade the offerings to pro quality.

5) Adobe watches its share price plummet and under pressure from investors revises its Creative Cloud plan. They announce that they have decided to offer permanent licenses on select products.


1026
Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« on: May 06, 2013, 10:29:05 PM »
Okay, one more thing. We can complain all we want on this forum, but please, also go to one or more of the public Facebook pages for Adobe, such as https://www.facebook.com/Photoshop?fref=ts and post a comment there.

Companies don't like public humiliation and in this era of the Internet and social media, it can be the most effective tool. Please, go post your opinion and urge others to do so as well.

1027
Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« on: May 06, 2013, 10:15:09 PM »

I think you are missing the point..Once you jump to the cloud, it is no longer do you stay with the version you are on or upgrade... it is do you use the software or not.

Why is Adobe doing this... because it is HUGE money and a captive slave audience.

Maui, I don't want to get this off track, but what point was I missing? You are saying almost exactly the same thing I said.

1028
Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« on: May 06, 2013, 09:41:46 PM »
The more I think about this the angrier I get.

Just a few thoughts:

I took advantage of Adobe's offer for a discounted upgrade to CS6 last year. Catch was, it was download only. So, while I have it on my computer, I don't own any disks. My computer crashes, I have to go through Adobe to have it authorized on the new computer. So, suppose I decide to take a pass on their "generous" offer and stick with CS6? Well, eventually I'll need to replace the computer and then, guess what, no way will Adobe give me access or unlock the software once they've gone to this system, you can bet on that.

So, unless you have a computer that will never die, don't count on being able to access your existing versions forever.

Now, they are going to sucker people in with their "introductory" pricing. So, what happens in a year when they jack up the price? Will I be able to go back to CS6 or will that have been disabled because I upgraded to "cloud?"

Main thing I'm getting at is this: even if you own disks from a previous version, don't think for a minute you will be able to reload them onto new machines or use them forever.

Others have rightly pointed out that all your images will be held hostage and if you let your subscription lapse you are screwed.

I'm not at all buying that customers like Adobe Cloud as much as the company claims. Naturally, since people have had a choice, the only people who migrated to the "Cloud" option were those for whom it made financial sense. Of course, they are going to like it, they made a choice and that's what they picked. But, you can be sure Adobe never asked people who didn't migrate how they felt about it.

I sincerely hope that this becomes Adobe's "New Coke" moment.

Finally, there is a part of me that – being optimistic – hopes this prompts some real competition in the market.

1029
Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« on: May 06, 2013, 06:19:03 PM »
Count me in among the unhappy customers. I think this is going to backfire on Adobe.

I consistently bought the upgrades (although I usually waited for their promotional deals). Once I'd bought into the system, it was affordable to upgrade. Frankly, I tended to overbuy (purchasing the entire Creative Suite when I seldom use anything but Photoshop, InDesign and Dreamweaver.)

Like some of the stories have said, I'll probably be one of those that subscribes for the first year at the promotional pricing, but once it goes to full price I'll take a very close look at renewal. I think Adobe may find that this plan actually results in less revenue.

1030
A lot of shots seem to have a bluish cast. i'm much more impressed with the output of the nikon 3200 which is > $200 cheaper than the SL1

http://www.flickr.com/photos/nikonfrance/sets/72157629851394125/

Yeah, let's compare a handful of shots taking by iraikov and his girlfriend while they were walking around town learning the new camera, to a bunch of shots that Nikon France contracted with professionals to produce. No doubt culled from thousands that were taken and post-processed by folks who do that sort of thing for a living.

1031
EOS Bodies / Re: No 7D Mark II in 2013? [CR2]
« on: May 06, 2013, 04:57:50 PM »
And back in say 2004-2006 when students asked what system to get it was Canon, Canon, Canon. Everyone at papers had Canon. Sidelines were Canon, Canon. If you see people out and about it was Canon. Now when you hear people getting advice it is at least as often look into Nikon and you see a lot of Nikons at games, people walking around with them, etc.

And back in say 2004-2006 1973-78 when students asked what system to get it was Canon, Canon, Canon. Pentax, Pentax, Pentax. Everyone at papers had Canon Nikon. Sidelines were Canon, Canon. Nikon, Nikon. If you see people out and about it was Canon Pentax. Now when you hear people getting advice it is at least as often look into Nikon Canon and you see a lot of Nikons Canons at games, people walking around with them, etc.

Canon clawed their way to the top over about 30-40 years. They weren't always the leader they are today. They did so by running a smart business. Sales figures would indicate they still know what they are doing. Do people buy other brands? Of course they do. It's not in our best interests for any company to have a monopoly share of the market. Every time Nikon introduces a new product, I'm very happy because it means Canon must compete.

1032
EOS Bodies / Re: No 7D Mark II in 2013? [CR2]
« on: May 06, 2013, 09:53:09 AM »
"We shall release no camera before it's time."

As much as I'd like a new toy to drool over, I'd rather wait and have significant improvements in the next generation.  My 7D is still as good today as it was when I bought it and it will still be as good next year.

Nikon seems in no hurry to replace the D300S, which looks like a dinosaur next to the 7D and despite what you read on this forum, Canon's current 18 mp sensor can still hold its own against the newer sensors. If they need until next year to perfect the next generation, that's just the way it is.

I'm a little doubtful about that "2014 will be the year for high-end DSLR cameras from Canon" statement, though. It seems too early in the cycle for a 1DX or 5DIII replacement. The only gap in the line-up might be a high megapixel monster. Can't see what else they could do.

1033
I won't swear for sure, but I don't believe that will work.

At least, I haven't had any luck combining radio and optical triggers. The flash will fire, but it is out of sync. Maybe others have had better luck or know something I don't.

Honestly, the YN622-Cs are so cheap, you might as well buy some for every strobe you own. Besides, once you start down that path of off-camera flash, you are soon going to find yourself with more strobes and triggers than you ever imagined. You think lenses are bad, at least with lenses, you only need one of each. :)

BTW, there are a handful of U.S.-based sellers of the YN622-Cs on eBay. Same price as the overseas dealers. I bought from one of them and had the triggers within a week.

1034
Keep in mind too that there is more than a little risk for any camera manufacturer who would completely shut out third-party lens makers.

They'd have to consider the ill-will they'd be generating among their best customers, since those who buy third-party lenses are also the ones with the discretionary income to buy Canon lenses and Canon cameras. Is it really worth it to antagonize those customers?

Canon doesn't operate a monopoly. If they make it impossible to use third-party lenses, that will only drive customers to Nikon. Right now, the two companies compete relentlessly over insignificant differences in their products. Ceding the third-party compatibility issue to the other side would be handing them a massive competitive advantage.

Shutting out Sigma, Tokina or Tamron would also mean shutting out Zeiss. Granted, it's a very small market, but I don't think either Canon nor Nikon would want to hand over these high-end luxury buyers to the other side.

Yes, I can see Canon and Nikon engineering new features into their lenses and trying to keep those features from being accessible by third party lenses, but that's a far different case than completely shutting out a competitor's lenses.

1035
I'm pretty sure that's why Sigma introduced the docking station for firmware upgrades.

Canon and Nikon may change their firmware in the future to try to shut third party lenses out of some features. By offering a docking station, major firmware upgrades can be added to the lenses at home. Sigma can release new firmware and, hopefully, stay one step ahead.

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