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61
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Speculation [CR1]
« on: June 18, 2014, 10:39:02 PM »
...Given that the 5DIII has sold better than the D800/E, please explain the flaws in Canon's strategy...
The fact that the 22 MP 5DIII has outsold the 36 MP D800/E and a7R supports the idea that the market has not demanded high MP...therefore, Canon sees no need to respond, quickly or otherwise.

I don't think Canon's strategy was wrong at the time. . .I don't think Canon could have produced the D800 two years ago at the D800 price period, which has nothing to do with whether or not the 5DIII was the right product for Canon to make...

...If it arrives around 3-4 years after the D800, which is similar to Canon's pro product cycle length, then I would think Canon is reacting to the D800.  If a high MP comes 5 or more years later (or never), then Canon decided that the high MP market was not worth its while.

Both Canon and Nikon responded to their customers. Nikon customers complained about Nikon's low resolution and Nikon overcompensated.

Canon's 5DII customers complained about the weak autofocus and were convinced Canon would just keep piling on pixels at the expense of noise and high ISO performance. (Go back and read some of the forum posts before Canon released the 5DIII.

Canon overcompensated by putting in an incredible autofocus, keeping the resolution almost the same and improving ISO performance.

Fortunately for Canon, their market research turned out to be more accurate than Nikon's. In fact, it was sufficiently accurate that they could charge a premium for the 5DIII over the D800 and still outsell Nikon by a wide margin.

I do think you will see a high megapixel body from Canon. It's just going to be in an APS-C format and called 7DII. (24mp scales out to more than 61mp in full frame). Why? Because a high megapixel 7DII plays to the format's strengths; it has a market; and it fits in with Canon's two-body strategy by nicely complementing Canon's full frame options.

62
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Speculation [CR1]
« on: June 18, 2014, 10:20:34 PM »
Here's my guess:
10 fps
24MP with equal or slight bump in high iso performance
Better weather sealing
4k video @24 fps, 120fps 1080 video
$2300 starting price
Digic6 and a new video processor
Dual sd card slot
AF system like 1DX, but with fewer points
Headphone jack
wifi and gps
articulated touchscreen
wireless flash controller
Wide selection of colours (black). no pink.
still uses LP-E6 battery

Very close to my earlier prediction

Note: this is not what a "wish list" but rather a prediction based on the market, competition and Canon's existing lineup:

24 mp dual pixel APS-C sensor;
Sensor performs marginally better than 70D sensor;
Autofocus equal to or exceeding the 5DIII;
Dual card slots, one each SD and CF;
Weather sealing somewhere between 5DIII and 1DX;
Mode dial replaced by 1D-style button (After CR Guy surfaced this rumor, I started thinking about it and it makes sense);
Touch Screen;
Integrated Wi-Fi and/or GPS;
Accessory grip/battery holder with weather-sealing slightly superior to 5DIII grip;
Frame rate slightly better than current 7D (Maybe 1-1.5 fps faster);
Pop-up flash with optical trigger (same as 7D);
Same back controls (joystick, click wheel, etc.) as 5DIII;
Fixed back screen (not tilting);
Video enhancements that I don't understand and won't use.

That about covers it.

I think you are a little high on the price; I don't see an articulated screen, but I do expect a touchscreen; I think it will have both a CF and SD card slot; I wouldn't be surprised to see some new configuration on the flash that allows for greater weathersealing; but basically I think we are pretty close.

63
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Speculation [CR1]
« on: June 18, 2014, 06:56:27 PM »
"holding back" could mean that production has started and they are waiting until they have sufficient stock produced and in place around the world for the release. Don't forget that it also takes time to get electronics certified in various countries and they cant ship until they can put that CSA, UL, or whatever certification on the units.

I guess it's a matter of semantics. I consider "holding back" to mean you have something all ready to go and you are choosing not to release it when you could. I don't think of all the ordinary, if massive, steps needed to move a product into the release stage as holding back.

At any rate, my point was the a camera body is not going to be held back by a version II of a long-existing lens. Much more likely, that the release date of a lens, which has a far longer shelf life and much more stable development path than a camera, is going to be determined by the release date of a camera, rather than the reverse.

All very minor points, but with forty-plus years of working in reporting and public information I get annoyed with throw-away editorial comments that have no basis in fact.
What is it with the "more megapixels"?...

Requirement of the marketing department. And people who want to crop excessively.

What's "excessively."

Higher megapixels plays to the strengths of the 7D. Full frame will always outperform APS-C at higher ISOs and with the 6D, Canon offers an affordable full-frame sensor for that market.

It's likely that the initial price of the 7DII will exceed the current street price of the 6D. So Canon has to target the product to audience demand.

Birders and wildlife shooters are a lucrative market that is not all that price sensitive – being comprised largely of people whose buying decisions are based on wants, rather than needs. Although most aren't going to be buying $8,000 super telephotos no matter how much they might want to.

These customers are often distance-limited and that requires cropping because you cannot get closer to the subject for dozens of various reasons. I expect people who want a bargain-priced 5DIII or 1D-X with high ISO sensitivity and low megapixels will be disappointed in the 7DII.

But for a great many people, pairing a 24mp or more 7DII with f8 focusing and a new 100-400 zoom plus 1.4 extender and then cropping it to 10mp will be their dream combination. Maybe you feel that's cropping "excessively" but absent the ability to sprout wings and fly alongside a Osprey fishing offshore, this is likely to be the only available option for many people.

64
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Speculation [CR1]
« on: June 18, 2014, 10:39:15 AM »
Quote
Canon holding back 7Dmk2 for a reason. I suspect 100-400 mk2 announcement, or some other coinciding situation.

Silly statement.

Canon could have released a 100-400 II at any time over the past five years or so. Lens technology doesn't change that much and this lens design has probably been sitting around for quite some time, just waiting for the right time to put it into production. There is no reason Canon would need to "hold back" any camera body for a lens.

And, what exactly does "holding back" mean? The implication is that the 7DII has been completed and ready to go for quite some time and Canon has allowed it to sit idle. Hardly a likely strategy for camera technology, which has a relatively short shelf life. Certainly all companies time their releases to obtain the maximum benefit, but that is a matter of weeks or months. To call it "holding back" reflects a gross misunderstanding of everything involved in a successful product launch.

65
You also know for sure when somebody says "I don't want video at all" and are commenting on a camera like this that they have no place making those comments and literally don't understand anything about why this camera *might* be really special.  This camera is extremely exciting to the video community. . .Don't assume that your uses are everybody's uses, or that the market that you see is the actual market. 

Well, you make a valid point (even it you were a little potty-mouthed about it). I certainly don't profess to know anything about video and have never claimed otherwise. If this is an ideal camera for video, so much the better.

Everyone, everywhere, has their own frame of reference based on their experience and needs.

I think this is an interesting concept that Sony is trying -- essentially interchanging sensors within the same camera body. Some people are skeptical about the likelihood of it being a successful strategy and I would fall into that category. Personally, I really don't care one way or the other, I'm just an interested observer who enjoys seeing companies compete, trying to second-guess their strategies and opining on whether or not they will be successful.

If this is an ideal video camera, great. That will only spur Nikon and Canon to more competition, which benefits all of us.

66
EOS Bodies / Re: A Few EOS 7D Mark II Specs [CR1]
« on: June 17, 2014, 10:18:38 AM »
An aside: People shouldn't be giving our friend Ken Rockwell so much credit. "'P' is for professionals" is a saying that has been around for a long time and certainly wasn't invented by him.

It's essentially the digital version of "f8 and be there."

Point being that under rapidly changing conditions when you have no idea what you might encounter next, having the camera set so that it gives you the best odds for a usable shot is important if your livelihood depends on bringing back the shot.  I'm guessing that most of the "I only use manual" crowd have never experienced that kind of pressure.

67
Okay, denial is really mature way to deal with facts...

I don't get the sense that anyone is in denial. In fact, as I stated earlier, this simply shows what most of the "true Canon fan(s)" as you refer to people, have been saying all along. No camera manufacturer can defy physics.

To get to clean, high ISOs, you need larger and fewer pixels. To get high resolution, you need more pixels, but the trade-off will be high ISO performance. If you want a reasonable compromise, you go somewhere in the middle.

High megapixels, low noise, High ISOs – regardless of the brand of sensor, you can have two of those things, but never all three.

Sony has attacked this problem with three different sensors in essentially the same camera. I'm curious to see if their gamble will pay off for them. I suspect that it won't, but if it does, I would fully expect Canon and/or Nikon to do something similar.

I only wish that the Canon-haters would be honest enough to recognize Sony's play as a not unsurprising strategy from a company that is clearly struggling to find a niche to fill in a market dominated by two long-time and very successful, innovative players.

68
Admittedly, I don't follow Sony at all (and Nikon only a little), so let's see if I have this right:

Sony's A7-series is basically one camera body with your choice of three sensors: 12mp, 24mp and 36mp. It's an interesting concept. In fact, I've long thought that Canon might introduce a "5D HD" that would be essentially identical to the 5DIII but with a higher megapixel sensor. Saves development and manufacturing costs.

That they feel compelled to offer multiple sensors would demonstrate that despite what some on this forum seem to think, apparently even Sony can't defy physics.

69
EOS Bodies / Re: A Few EOS 7D Mark II Specs [CR1]
« on: June 15, 2014, 10:47:18 PM »
...People who deride P mode are idiots, they either don't understand what it is, or think there is some cool factor to "I only shoot in M" nonsense, it is about the pictures, not how you selected the dials on your camera, they only adjust ss, aperture, and iso, but you choose what ss, aperture, and iso.

All modes give you the same amount of control, apart from the green square, and I never owned a camera with one of them.

Well said. Although I did use the Green Square today. After a woman handed me her Nikon to take some pictures of her and her family she insisted on taking pictures of my wife and I with my camera. Since it is set to back-button focus, I remembered that the Green Square would override back button focus. So, yes, I do use the Green Square when appropriate.

70
EOS Bodies / Re: Ye Olde Film Photography
« on: June 15, 2014, 08:15:11 PM »
Nothing.

Anyone who is nostalgic for the film era falls into two camps:

1) Those who never lived through it, or at least, never lived through it at a sufficient depth to fully appreciate all its limitations.

2) Luddites who are unwilling to accept that technology moves on and today's technology is far superior to yesterday's.

The inclination to take one's times and carefully compose a shot has little to nothing to do with the technology. Rather it is within the nature of the photographer. And, taking one's time can be, but is not always, a virtue. Garry Winogrand and Robert Frank are two of the 20th century's greatest photographers. Many of their greatest images were shot quickly, intended to catch a fleeting moment before it disappeared.

71
EOS Bodies / Re: 7D Mark-II as an action oriented DSLR
« on: June 12, 2014, 10:43:14 PM »
Note: this is not what a "wish list" but rather a prediction based on the market, competition and Canon's existing lineup:

24 mp dual pixel APS-C sensor;
Sensor performs marginally better than 70D sensor;
Autofocus equal to or exceeding the 5DIII;
Dual card slots, one each SD and CF;
Weather sealing somewhere between 5DIII and 1DX;
Mode dial replaced by 1D-style button (After CR Guy surfaced this rumor, I started thinking about it and it makes sense);
Touch Screen;
Integrated Wi-Fi and/or GPS;
Accessory grip/battery holder with weather-sealing slightly superior to 5DIII grip;
Frame rate slightly better than current 7D (Maybe 1-1.5 fps faster);
Pop-up flash with optical trigger (same as 7D);
Same back controls (joystick, click wheel, etc.) as 5DIII;
Fixed back screen (not tilting);
Video enhancements that I don't understand and won't use.

That about covers it.



72
Technical Support / Re: OMG Cookie Hell on Canon Rumors
« on: June 12, 2014, 06:09:51 PM »
It doesn't really bother me. The products advertised on Canon rumors tend to be ones I'm interested in, so having Canon, Lens Rentals, Adobe, Adorama, etc. ads show up when I'm browsing this and other sites really doesn't bother me.

It is a little amusing though, when I've ordered some piece of jewelry for my wife and then for the next three months their ads show up on Canon rumors.

I guess because I've spent most of my life in one or another form of marketing/communications I find the sophistication of this type of targeted marketing intriguing instead of invasive. If I'm going to be bombarded for ads, I'd rather they be ads for products that I'm actually interested in.

It's actually one of the things I like about the internet as opposed to other forms of advertising. Some idiot screaming at me on television to come buy their used cars – now that's annoying.

I do, of course, hate those spam ads that some sites use, which basically block your view of the content. Any site that accepts those -- well, they never get another visit from me.


73
EOS Bodies / Re: A Few EOS 7D Mark II Specs [CR1]
« on: June 11, 2014, 11:36:58 PM »
I think touch screens will have a lofty place among entry level cameras and mirrorless cameras. When it comes to professional grade cameras...I don't really think that touch screens are going to be all that important.

Think about what you are saying.

Can you set a 600 RT without ever taking your eye off the viewfinder? Select flash groups? Adjust flash A:B C balance while looking through the viewfinder?

And, with that new 5DIII can you set tracking sensitivity or accelerate or decelerate your tracking through the viewfinder?

Setting tracking with a touch screen -- now that alone would be worth it.

First, I never said touch screens weren't useful. Just that they won't be the most important feature of an action-oriented camera like the 7D II.

Regarding flash...no, however I have never really needed flash for my bird and wildlife photography. I don't think flash is used all that much with sports either. Flash also quickly becomes useless in high frame rate photography, since even with high end Eneloop fast cycle batteries, the flash still can't keep up.

So whether you can control flash or not is moot. It's unimportant in the high speed action photography context.

As for AF, the 5D III brings AMAZING button customizability. It actually allows you to configure the "AF Stop" button to alternative behaviors, one of which is "Switch to registered AF function". You can register your own AF function, and switch between it and the main AF function, with the press of a button. So, while you don't have 100% complete control over every aspect of the AF system from individual buttons, you can do what you stated, change tracking sensitivity, acceleration, etc. without moving your eye from the VF.

I suspect that functionality will only get more refined in future generations of Canon pro-level DSLRs. And regardless...even if you can tweak those settings on a touch screen, you still have to take your eye away from the VF, which is worse than what I can do now with my 5D III.

Yikes! You're starting to sound like Sella or Dilbert. You don't use flash so there's no reason for Canon to make it easier for others?

And, of course, you can customize your autofocus settings and add them as a custom functions. But in order to do that, you still have to go through the old-fashioned menu and dial and button setting procedures. It's just so much easier and more intuitive to change and adjust any setting with a touch and swipe system than a scroll and press system. You can still set a custom function, but you can do it much more quickly and intuitively with a touch and swipe.

And once again, why would anyone think that adding a touch system is somehow going to mean taking away buttons or wheels? It augments, does not replace, the existing system.

74
So let’s say 5 years from now something happens in my life and I'm no longer actively into photography.  Family illness, work, family obligations, whatever. . .But I no longer have access to my file system?  The edits I've made?  The catalog that I've spent the last 10 years or building will no longer be backwards compatible with CS4.  The only way I can access all the work I’ve done is to keep paying Adobe.  At that point I don't need new features, I'm fine with an old version, but I need something that can read my file system and my edits.  All I have to speak for my photography the last 5 years are anything I exported, and folders and folders full of unedited, unorganized RAW images.

I don't understand this. What would block your access to your file system? More importantly, what would block your access to your files. They are right there on your computer, they haven't gone anywhere.

Are you saying that because they have been edited in CC 5 or something like that, you figure that you can't open them with an old CS4? Well, that's always a risk, whether you've got a subscription service or buying a license.

If you're talking PSD files, make sure the maximize compatibility box is checked so the files are backward compatible.

If you are talking DNG, that's an open format available to anyone. In fact, that's why Adobe developed DNG.

If it's a RAW file, well, that has nothing at all to do with Adobe, that's a risk because the camera manufacturers insist on having their own proprietary formats and until they adopt a universal standard, there is no guarantee that any program will always be able to open a RAW file.

Now, it would be pretty crappy and shortsighted of Canon to not make available software that can always open any of their proprietary RAW formats. But, that's something to take up with Canon, not Adobe.

And, by the way, why would anyone completely drop a software program without first saving their files in a universal format?

And, even if you did that, what would prevent you from signing up to the then-current version of Creative Cloud just long enough to switch over your files to a universal format?

What am I missing here?

75
EOS Bodies / Re: A Few EOS 7D Mark II Specs [CR1]
« on: June 11, 2014, 10:51:48 PM »
I think touch screens will have a lofty place among entry level cameras and mirrorless cameras. When it comes to professional grade cameras...I don't really think that touch screens are going to be all that important.

Think about what you are saying.

Can you set a 600 RT without ever taking your eye off the viewfinder? Select flash groups? Adjust flash A:B C balance while looking through the viewfinder?

And, with that new 5DIII can you set tracking sensitivity or accelerate or decelerate your tracking through the viewfinder?

Setting tracking with a touch screen -- now that alone would be worth it.

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