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Messages - sdsr

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The best solution is a Sony A7.

Sure, if you want 35mm equiv. angle of view, but any mirrorless camera (incl Micro 43 & Fuji X, in addition to Sony) with magnification and focus peaking - preferably one with an EVF and the right external controls - works well with old manual lenses; it's far easier to focus accurately and get exposure right. 

Reviews / Re: DxO reviews Sony A7s: king of low light photography?
« on: June 23, 2014, 04:38:18 PM »
The high ISO comparison between 5DIII, A7r & A7s at dpreview may be of interest if you haven't seen it yet:

EOS Bodies / Re: DSLR vs Mirrorless :: Evolution of cameras
« on: June 23, 2014, 04:03:01 PM »


In other words, you have a digital camera that starts to act like a digital camera and leave the last restriction of film behind.

Exactly!  I don't understand why some seem not to "get" the advantages you list (though of course I get why, for some purposes at least, they're not yet the best choice for everyone).  They may never catch on, of course, but I would like it if Canon offered one that was pleasant to use.

EOS Bodies / Re: DSLR vs Mirrorless :: Evolution of cameras
« on: June 23, 2014, 03:56:46 PM »

I rather buy DSLR b/c

- i like the bodies better, (I have a 7D, and i used to have the olympus OMD-EM5)
- I'm not going to say the image quality is WAY better.. b/c mirrorless is very good, but I personally feel like, you can get a more natural picture sometimes, hard to explain.
- Mirrorless cameras maybe cheaper when you compare the top mirrorless vs the top dslrs... but the lenses arent THAT cheap either.     some are quite pricey and you dont have nearly as many options

You may prefer the images you get from a 7D to those you got from your OM-D, but that comparison has no wider implications and the differences between the two have nothing to do with the fact that one is a dslr while the other is mirrorless.  (One reason you may find the 7D's images "more natural" is because the OM-D E-M5 adds far more sharpening (esp. in default JPEG settings) than many other cameras.  Images from the E-M1 don't, however.)  The images generated by the various Micro 43 cameras don't all look the same, Sony APS-C mirrorless images don't look the same as Fuji-X images, which in turn don't look the same as EOS-M images, and none of those look the same as Sony FF mirrorless.


A lot of the undefined qualities are that way.  Since different people see them differently, its pretty difficult to do more than look at the images and see if you agree.

Exactly.  I find reviews far more useful when they provide photos taken in various conditions with the lens under review and its older rivals, if any.  You can sometimes find such comparisons, but not often enough.  Simply providing a bunch of photos taken in isolation with a particular lens doesn't tell you much - they tend to all look much the same (which may tell us something more important, of course).

Lenses / Re: 17-40 f/4L vs 16-35 F/4L
« on: June 21, 2014, 10:42:13 PM »
I've thought about the 10-18, but I'd like to start investing in full-frame compatible L lenses

But there isn't an L zoom lens that's really wide-angle on APS-C (or are 16 or 17mm wide enough?), so you would have to get something like the Sigma 12-24mm.  The 10-18 costs only $300 - it's surely not a wasted investment even if you end up going FF (you can always sell it anyway).

So, I've noticed so many fashion photographers are bashing the autofocus on Canon Gear, specifically 6D and 5DIII.


I'm getting tired of being Canon's advocate. Single AF point, recompose. Shoot. It's not hard. :o

Do the photographers you're referring to only say this about Canon cameras and not about Nikon etc.?

As for whether point + shoot + recompose isn't hard, as Neuro points out that depends in part on how shallow the depth of focus is (of course, it also matters how exacting your standards of focus accuracy are...).  It makes life much easier if you can put a focus point on the subject and not have to move the camera at all (it's one of the huge advantages of mirrorless cameras over dslrs that you can put the focus point almost anywhere in the frame).

Third Party Lenses (Sigma, Tamron, etc.) / Re: SMC Pentax 50mm 1.4
« on: June 21, 2014, 08:14:15 PM »
Lovely photos - and nice timing: I just bought its screwmount SMC Takumar predecessor (I very much like the look and feel of the older focus rings) and am eagerly awaiting its arrival early next week; your photos are making me a bit less patient....   There are some great bargains to be had via manual lenses (though I prefer to use mine on mirrorless Sony - magnification + focus peaking + EVF makes it far easier for me to use them).

Reviews / Re: DxO reviews Sony A7s: king of low light photography?
« on: June 21, 2014, 08:04:49 PM »

knowledgable users buy what they need more than uneducated users who buy what marketing tells them they should want. That's what Neuro keeps getting wrong.

If by "uneducated" you mean novices who haven't spent hours researching camera reviews, hanging out in camera forums, etc., and if we can assume from their market share that such people buy Canon more than other brands, does that mean, then, that Canon's ads and other marketing devices are more effective than anyone else's?  Is there any evidence to support this?  The only camera ads I've noticed on TV are Ashton Kutcher's for Nikon; I don't recall ever seeing a Canon ad anywhere (though perhaps that's just because I watch & read the wrong things).  I suspect that marketing isn't as effective as you (and marketing departments) think - my first dslr was a Nikon, not because I had swooned at the sight of Mr. Kutcher or read tons of reviews (though I had probably looked at more than most novices do), but largely because my father had one and I thought he might be a useful resource.  Novice friends and colleagues of mine who have no interest at all in spending hours researching this stuff have often followed my advice because they've seen some of my photos and think I'm trustworthy, in part because what I say about various cameras makes sense to them (I don't talk to them about dynamic range....); and I'm sure that's true of others.  Some may be act on name recognition (they have Canon copiers at work or at home) or because they see masses of Canon cameras at sporting events, or because they took a camera course one weekend where the instructor used a Canon.  Others pay attention to salesmen (it's instructive to spend some time in camera stores listening to interactions between staff and novices). 

As for who needs what, beyond the basics ("I want to take photos of my toddler roaming around the house so I can email them to his grandmother") you probably don't know until you do a lot of photography and take it seriously enough to think about what your equipment is stopping you from doing and why it makes your photos look the way they do.  To the extent that Neuro is suggesting that Canon is successful despite not doing so well in various DXO et al. tests because those relative deficiencies don't matter to most people, that's probably true in some sense, but also a bit misleading:  I doubt Rebel buyers chose Canon because they know noisy shadows at low ISOs and lower resolution aren't significant to them and don't fall within their "needs" - rather, they haven't the slightest idea what any of those things mean, either at all or in practice (in Rumsfeld-ese, this is known-unknowns or unknown-unknowns territory).  Try talking to a novice about APS-C vs FF, crop factors, etc., let alone the advantages of shooting RAW and fiddling around with software....   It's not because they're stupid or uneducated or dupes of marketing; it's just that they have other priorities. 

Even photozone's at it now; comparing against the EF 50mm f1.2 L II !

What the 50L does well doesn't have a metric that can be easily recorded.  That lens is about color, draw, bokeh, etc. and less about meat and potatoes forum fodder like sharpness, chromatic aberrations, distortion, etc.

However, the Sigma Art seems purpose-built to wow the forum crowd.  If you are a sharpness junkie (who needs AF), you've found your lens.

So you're justifying the 50/1.2L by saying that it has some immeasurable quality to it that nobody else can beat? Do you understand how irrational that sounds?

He didn't say it has some immeasurable quality that nobody else can beat, only that it has distinctive qualities that can't readily be measured.  That's neither irrational nor false (his statement as you reworded it may or may not be true, but it's not irrational).  You may not care for those distinctive qualities or even notice them; and it may well be that they're related to various aspects of the lens that *can* be measured (if you like, one could say that it's desirable because of, not despite, its flaws). But simply to dismiss it, as you seem to want to do, because it fails in various ways that can be measured begs the question.

(And, in case this is necessary to add, none of that is to say anything at all negative about the Sigma or, for that matter, to say anything positive about the Canon.)

Its too bad that lens reviewers are not able to test autofocus.  I realize that testing it would open a can of worms, since its possibly different on every camera.  Still, they could have canon calibrate their bodies, and determine a way to measure focus times and accuracy.  FoCal does a good job of checking accuracy and consistency, and by using a standard setup, different lenses could be compared on the test camera.  If a lens was acting up, it could be returned to the manufacturer for repair and retested.
I think that the results might open some eyes for all lens models.   Lens autofocus can be pretty bad, and timing will vary all over the place depending on the distance, starting point, lighting, and even the subject.  That's probably why no one does it.

Some do, at least up to a point, such as lenstip:

But it seems pretty clear that they don't cover the range of contexts you refer to in your second paragraph.  I've no idea whether anyone else comes closer.


very bizarre that they test it on aps-c first (or perhaps even only???)
I will wait until they do it on FF.

Not "only" - they say there will be a FF review shortly and, in the conclusion portion of the review, give a more than subtle hint at their overall opinion of it on FF.  But yes, it does seem odd to start with APS-C first.

Lenses / Re: EF-S 10-18mm - a few early photos on SL1 & Sony a6000
« on: June 20, 2014, 11:02:02 AM »
According the the digital pictures image quality post, this lens is...good only if you dont want to pay for the 10-22, and lose a fair amount of zoom capacity.

Sharpness is pretty much the same as the old bird. corners are smushy. Ive used the 10-22 on a 7d, t2i, and an eos m...there's only so much sharpness you can expect of of that lens. So if this is the same, its pretty pointless.

I've no clue how they compare first-hand as I've never tried a 10-22, but photozone states that "[t]he MTF results are nothing short of astounding."  But even assuming they're optically "the same", the 10-18 is half the price and has very effective IS, so I don't think "pointless" is quite the right word unless you already have the 10-22 and don't care about IS, or don't do APS-C - which isn't everyone.

Reviews / Re: DxO reviews Sony A7s: king of low light photography?
« on: June 19, 2014, 03:42:23 PM »

I like high mp bodies so I can crop and still have a good image left, and at low ISO's, the Sony sensor is good.  that's assuming that I'm willing to buy a $5,000 Zeiss lens that can produce those results.  In any event, with a ordinary lens, the results will be better than with a low mp sensor.

Cameras with high mp Sony sensors (at least, the A7r) also produce great results with a $900 Sony/Zeiss 55mm 1.8 lens and (inter al.) a wide range of Canon lenses, including such relative bargains as the 85mm 1.8, 100mmL and the ultra-cheap 40mm pancake.  To the extent you meant to include a "not" in the third sentence, the photos I've taken with an "ordinary lens" (assuming you mean something less exalted than a $5000 Zeiss) don't look worse via my A7r than they do via my 6D & 5DIII.  To the extent you didn't, "at least as good" might be safer than "better than", but I'm not really sure.  These are just impressions I've formed by using them, though, rather than through comparisons performed under controlled conditions.  Are there such tests showing otherwise?

Reviews / Re: DxO reviews Sony A7s: king of low light photography?
« on: June 19, 2014, 03:14:03 PM »

Anyone that prints to A4 from any camera with more than 8MP downconverts to 8MP (this means anyone shooting for magazines.)

Anyone that takes a photo and puts it on their web page for people to look at downconverts.


One might also add that when a photo is printed without downsizing from a high resolution image, it will likely be viewed at a greater distance than one that's downsized first.  So you (and they) have a point. 

What matters, though, is how the resulting images actually compare - does a photo from, say, a D800 or A7r downsized to 8mp look noisier or less noisy (or better or worse etc.) than a photo from, say, a 6D, 5DIII or 1DX?  I'm pretty sure DxO has never performed such a test (does anyone there ever actually take photos?), though there are plenty of sites online where you can find such comparisons, and if my memory is right the D800 & A7r usually fare pretty well (see, e.g, photographylife).  My hunch, based on using most of these cameras (but not involving anything like a scientific comparison) is that the differences are exaggerated.  (Which isn't to say anything about the A7s, which I've not seen, much less used.)

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