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Messages - LetTheRightLensIn

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The writing is on the wall for Canon, as it has been for some time now. But now, many people (including myself) have gone to greener and much better pastures for video (Sony, BMC, Panny, Nikon, etc....)

Canon needs to start competing in video instead of riding on their fast fading name. Cut prices and start making competitive products. Even in stills, Nikon has the better bodies now. That's really sad for a company that accidentally started a revolution with the 5D2, but failed to follow up on it because of greed.

Canon had to do so little to own the video market, but the way they played their cards was like going into the NBA finals with a 30 point lead in the fourth quarter and somehow losing. Seemed almost impossible to do, but they lost the video market they should have owned.

They had the market, until their marketing realized it and then they went and tossed it (not completely but a lot). As you say they could've so utterly entrenched themselves as THE player in the small pretty high quality little body video field. Instead they went to their internal segmentation, cripplings, delaying until they absolutely must release something game and now they are just going to be one of many side players quite likely.

EOS Bodies / Re: EOS 7D Mark II, EOS 70D & 700D in 2013? [CR1]
« on: September 24, 2012, 01:55:31 PM »
I can't help but chuckle at the state of affairs on this forum now. For years I coveted a 5Dmkii but couldn't justify getting rid of my 7D to do it. After all the 7D AF system is "light years" ahead of the antiquated 5dmkii AF system. I read hundreds of threads and posts dedicated to how bad the mkii AF system was/is. The general consensus was just giv us a 22mp (who needs more, right) 5D with a better AF system. Well Canon delivered exactly that. What's the old saying? Watch out, you might get what you asked for. I'm still amazed at the pictures a lot of you have gotten with your 5D mkii and it's antiquated AF system.

So what exactly is needed on the 7Dmkii ? Just better DR? More MP? WiFi? Espresso maker? Remember the warning (it's in bold above).

P.S. I'm busy saving for a 5D mkiii and I am soooo loking forward to getting my hands on it, even if it doesn't have enough DR/MP/WiFi/whotsits/thinga-mabobs.  ;)

5D3 IS great other than it's hard to believe they actually slightly regressed on low ISO image quality after half a decade which was very disappointing (and it wouldn't been awesome had it had dual digic and 30MP and still 6fps, maybe the new digic takes too much power or is too large, who knows, hopefully not  thinking about future models or maybe they still can't do line-skipping free video above 22MP) and it's just plain silly that they yet again crippled AutoISO in pathetic fashion (maybe ML can fix it). (They also didn't make nearly as much as they could have for video, although now with ML we finally have zebras, better histograms and focus peaking so that is now partly fixed. Still lacking crop modes, clean HDMI out, better codec settings and bitrates and while the GH2 seems a bit too video-like crisp the 5D3 seems kinda softer than 1920x1080p. ML might fix the codecs settings and bitrates hopefully and probably clean HDMI out, crop modes might be more doubtful sadly since they haven't figured out how to code the Digic image processor and chip readouts.) But for stills other than a kind of outdated sensor for low ISO it is a great cam and delivers what was asked (and for video it did deliver the moire-free video). For shooting when it has enough reach and you don't need tons of DR it's absolutely awesome.

The price on the 5D3 did seem a bit high at intro since it didn't also bring along top low ISO DR, although it's now settling more into $2800-3100 range which seems perfectly fine.

7D2 could use the new 5D3 AF (and of course the improved low ISO that they haven't seem to be able to do an get rid of all the vertical banding, on the 7D it can even show in mid tones to one degree or another on many copies) and the improved video. (the 7D AF was not all that, I trusted the 5D2 center point more for one shot and for some sports, like soccer, I swear the 5D2 more often did better than worse for AI Servo than the 7D, although for surfing the 7D did great AI Servo much better than 5D2; 5D3 generally does much better than 7D for AF, the only place they seem the same is for surfing).

Even with the 5D3 out there the 7D2 still makes sense because at only 22MP FF the 5D3 simply doesn't have the reach needed for some things (and 8fps certainly doesn't hurt either).

Problem with both GH3 and Sony a99 is that to me they both still look kinda video-y. At least, despite the small sensor, the BMCC does have a nice cinematic quality to the footage that I've seen so far.

The GH2 was a touch on the video-looking side, true. While the 5D3 kind of soft, the GH2 is sort of almost a touch too video-crisp.

The little GH cams have crop modes, but can Canon give their DSLR crop mode video? Nope. Marketing would slap the engineers silly for daring to try to take anywhere near close to full advantage of the hardware. The 5D3 sensor actually has an ASP-C section that could be read exactly the same way as the C300 in 2x2 blocking since it is the same 8MP in the APS-C crop portion.

Lenses / Re: Photozone's review of the EF 24-70 f/2.8L II is up
« on: September 24, 2012, 12:33:10 AM »
What? The 70-300L has a reversed focus/zoom direction? Really?

It does not.

It does have the ring placement swapped compared to many Canon zooms. I can't say it's bothered me in the slightest.

Lenses / Re: Photozone's review of the EF 24-70 f/2.8L II is up
« on: September 24, 2012, 12:31:44 AM »
...well look at the actual numbers...

Where do you get detailed specs on all the lenses?



on the photozone charts

Lenses / Re: Photozone's review of the EF 24-70 f/2.8L II is up
« on: September 24, 2012, 12:31:23 AM »
Check out these two images, you are going to tell me that one isn't a lot better than the other near the edges?:

download the full images, save, flip between them in a viewer, the edges look noticeably better to me from one of them  (hint: the canon ;) )

(to be fair, we don't know exactly how he focused these and that can affect things, but still in a quick real world pop snap one certainly did better)

My observations:

I'd say that the Canon has the resolution advantage in the centre, the Tamron in the extreme corners (who cares?), but Canon has much better contrast.  The colour balance of the lenses is very different -the Canon is more natural than the Tamron, which is quite yellow.  It's difficult to tell in these photos as they are shot at different times of the day with varying cloud cover.  The Tamron has noticably less distortion than the Canon. 

These shots were taken at f/9; lets compare them at f/2.8: if you want to shoot at f/9, buy a 24-105 F/4L.  Sadly, Photozone doesn't have any f/2.8 shots at the same focal length.  [This is something that I always find strange considering the purpose of the site, surely they'd be better to have some standard outdoor test setups for various focal length/aperture combinations?] Until some more real world samples appear, we're left with The Digital Picture's ISO 12233 chart tests:


Fine, but I always find it difficult to relate this sort of test shot to the real world and they are taken at quite close distance, which some lenses don't perform well at [see Bryan's comments about the EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8, which every user raves about (including Bryan) but underwhelms on these charts].

Hah I tried the 24-105, three copies, at f/9 and f/11 and f/8 and it sucks on FF at 24mm for finely detailed edge to edge landscapes. The samples aren't even close to the ones posted at 24mm and stopped down from the 24-70 II (or my 24 1.4 II).

Lenses / Re: Photozone's review of the EF 24-70 f/2.8L II is up
« on: September 24, 2012, 12:29:58 AM »
I think there may be some slight variation in the first batch, based on my experience, which isn't conclusive - (could be a one off).
First lens I received #(000061) was soft at 70mm f/2.8, had a hazy appearance on focus area. even once calibrated with lens align2 I wasn't blown away
(I had the Tamron 24-70 vc and returned it because of back focusing and poor AF quality & speed).

Even though I wasn't wowed by the first copy it, it was better than the tamron, in every way. I still returned the canon the following day, considering the price, I wanted AMAZING.
I was lucky that my store had a second copy of the lens yet to be sold (000063) which they kindly exchanged.

Now I am super impressed, amazingly SHARP @ F2.8 at every zoom length across the entire frame, which is inline with what Roger at Lens rentals reports. no micro adjustment required. (after doing the usual lens align procedure).
DID all sorts of exhaustive tests, and real life shots, I am wrapped with the build quality, operation, and images which come from the lens....I don't know if there is slight variation between copies, but this is my experience (first copy compared to second) and could reflect the photo zone findings.

The onion bokeh is there under certain circumstances, but its allot cleaner than that of the Tamrons, and isn't noticeable unless pixel peeping. doesn't concern me in the slightest. I think the bokeh is wonderful, very similar characteristics to the 50L1.2.
lack of fringing and CA is great. colour and contrast is wonderful.

that is a little disturbing to here, even after the long delay to fix production....

EOS Bodies / Re: DxOMark Sensor Performance: Nikon vs. Canon
« on: September 24, 2012, 12:28:00 AM »
I do not believe in those DxO results.

Just compare their DxO Optics Pro software raw conversion results to those from Adobe software regarding detail extraction and image sharpness.
(At least with Canon raw files. I have never tried any Nikon files due to the lack of a Nikon camera...)

While the DxO software is pretty good for a quick conversion, they are miles behind in other aspects.
So how should they be able to judge about sensor quality if they do not know how to get the optimum results of them?

Measuring sensor performance and writing RAW decode software are pretty different things.
And BTW, when people do go and try to replicate their sensor findings themselves, surprise, surprise, the results come out close to what DxO reports.

Funny that if the new Canon sensors alluded to in the latest rumor suddenly perform much better then all the naysayers will be back to saying that one must trust in DxO results.  ;D ;)

EOS Bodies / Re: EOS 7D Mark II, EOS 70D & 700D in 2013? [CR1]
« on: September 24, 2012, 12:26:21 AM »
I think Canon is doing an okay job making a camera for almost everyone's needs right now considering their losses through natural disasters and Nikon's.... I mean Sony's jump on sensors. Honestly, if you can't take a great photo between ISO 100 (or even 50) and ISO 1600, which is the most common area for all photographers.... What's the point?  Wow, I'm a wedding photographer and it's crucial to my survival that I take clean photos at ISO 104k+ Wow, I didn't even know people were actually there in that dark spot until I took the photo. Canon's sensor is so far behind awwwww Boo-frikkety-hoo. People made it work for so many years, and they're still making it work now. "OMG DYNAMIC RANGE I CAN'T TAKE THE PHOTO CORRECTLY TO BEGIN WITH SO I NEED TO MAKE UP FOR IT IN POST. I HAVE LESS AF POINTS AND IN MY MIND ALL OF THE PHOTOS ARE OUT OF FOCUS. OMG THE SENSOR IS THE HEART OF THE IMAGE AND WITHOUT HIGH SPECS I CAN'T TAKE A PHOTO. SPECS ARE EVERYTHING BECAUSE THE PEOPLE IN MARKETING SAID SO. I HAVE NO SENSE OF PHYSICS OR CREATIVITY, WAAAAAAAAH. I DON'T CARE ABOUT PHOTOGRAPHY ITSELF, I WANT TO WORK IN THE ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT. I LIKE TROLLING. I LIKE GOING TO CANON'S FORUM AND BASHING CANON BECAUSE THEY'RE #1 IN MARKETSHARE AND I DON'T KNOW WHY. MAYBE BECAUSE THINGS LIKE LENS LINEUP, ERGONOMICS, UI, AND SKIN TONE REPRODUCTION MATTER NOTHING IN THE REAL WORLD BUT MEGAPIXELS DO." Yeah.... Listen to yourselves.

Sure more DR can be useful to rescue shots, but it is hardly just about that! Do you not get that many scenes DO NOT FIT into the DR Canon delivers WHEN PROPERLY EXPOSED. Sure an infinite number do, but an almost infinite number do not. People care about this because THEY actually DO care about actual photography.

EOS Bodies / Re: EOS 7D Mark II, EOS 70D & 700D in 2013? [CR1]
« on: September 24, 2012, 12:24:16 AM »
Do you think the new sensor will have a better DR at lower ISO than the 5D3 and 1DX?  I wish it would but knowing Canon's strategy, it will not happen.  It will just be the same thing all over again...  :-\

It better not otherwise it might sadly start to be time to think you have to go Nikon, no matter what else you don't like about that, if DR at low ISO matters. :(

EOS Bodies / Re: EOS 7D Mark II, EOS 70D & 700D in 2013? [CR1]
« on: September 24, 2012, 12:22:34 AM »
That's a long wait for a new camera, none of which will touch the Nikon D600 available now.

I am a Canon fanboi, with 5DII and L lenses to prove it. But I just ordered a Samsung EX2F instead of G15, and I am seriously looking at the D600.

I wish Canon would go all out and give everything they can in a 5D size body. But it isn't going to happen in this round. I doubt I can wait another 3 - 4 years.

dude, the D600 is getting rheamed by its own Nikon fan boys... it doesn't even allow manual settings in video.  Nikon confirmed that to Philip Bloom in an interview at Photokina Friday.  A Canon Rebel is better for video than the D600.  Spec sheets aren't worth the paper they're printed on...they leave out the "S___ we can't do" section every time...

That's a shame. They could've pushed Canon to wake up more quickly. :(

EOS Bodies / Re: EOS 7D Mark II, EOS 70D & 700D in 2013? [CR1]
« on: September 24, 2012, 12:21:07 AM »
There will be no miracle, however, the laws of physics still apply, and sensors are getting to be about as good as they can be, so its just small increments of improvement.

Canon has plenty of room for miracles at low ISO. I agree about high ISO though, they are now getting so close to the limits that for SNR they can't get much better, I guess they still could improve high ISO DR more but that might be expensive and tricky.

EOS Bodies / Re: EOS 7D Mark II, EOS 70D & 700D in 2013? [CR1]
« on: September 24, 2012, 12:19:29 AM »
Flexible video crop (full-frame to 1:1 crop in all modes) for all these cameras.
5DIII firmware update to include flexible video cropping.
Big time bonus - native DNG format, including the option to use the new lossy DNG raw format (huge, huge advantage over MRAW/SRAW).  Include this in the above-mentioned 5DIII firmware update.

Yeah...I'd definitely crack open the checkbook for that.

I do not. All you videots ... stop your whining over bloody video features in bloody stills cameras, especially in DSLRS. Get it into your head, that a DSRL is the single worst possible videocam .. by its very nature. Now go away. Leave us in peace. Do yourself a favour and buy a decent camcorder from Canon or from Sony ...  loaded with all the video crap on earth. Zebra stripes, all sorts of video output options, audio levels, 99 microphones, and anything more. Today these camcorders even come cheaper than a 5D III ... 3000 USD for a Sony VEX Full Frame HD camcorder ... just buy it and vanish from the stills photography sections of forums.

Sure...show me a nice video camera with interchangeable lenses and an APS-c sized sensor, that occupies zero space so that I don't have to carry it along side my dSLR.


EOS Bodies / Re: EOS 7D Mark II, EOS 70D & 700D in 2013? [CR1]
« on: September 24, 2012, 12:19:07 AM »
Should hit shelves about 2015. The one thing I hate about Canon is that they make an announcement and then it is months before the product is available. Getting tired of that. Why don't you wait until you are only a week or two away from release before making the announcement?

They used to do that and the bitching was perhaps even worse, so they can't win either way. Before everyone was P.O. they were given no hints about the future and now everyone is P.O. that they are and that the future is always longer off than expected.  ;)

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