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Messages - ahsanford

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Well said. I agree completely. But you left out the 50 Macro.  ;D

I've also left out all zooms permanently glued down at the 50mm FL.

I can't win.   :P

I'm fascinated folks think that this F/1.8 STM might be a pancake.  Pancakes are great, but smaller non=pancake primes with some small barrel to them give a little something to hold onto and generally have better focus rings.  Further, pursuant to my 'nifty fifties are gateway primes to buying pricier primes' comment, shouldn't the user experience of gripping and holding the camera + lens be similar between the budget and pricier primes?  (I honestly don't have a pancake / not pancake preference for such an entry lens and was just curious.)

Also, I know Canon sells non-pancake zooms with STM, but have they ever sold a non-pancake STM prime before?  (Is the EF-M 22mm considered a pancake or just a tiny lens?)

- A

So if I do not think about canon creating a whole range of STM zooms and primes and what that could mean for video shooters, what the market is, but look at the 50 I would like when my 50/1.4 kicks the bucket like my furst copy did...
- build quality (so not nifty fifty, plastic fantastic)
- IS
- less vignetting wide open but I will accept some
- 1.4 but 1.8 if it is good wide open

In short: I outgrew the 1.8 will keep the 1.4 until it cracks, not sure what I would replace it with, hope this could be it.

And you are not alone.  Many many many people want that lens as well.  It's 9/10 optically that has all the bells and whistles, but costs a reasonable 6/10 sort of price (when you consider $1500 primes and such).  I imagine that lens will be a $750 first offer and $550 before too long sort of lens like the other non-L IS refreshes, but Sigma's Art lens pricing might force a more reasonable starting price.

I just think that there is enough pent up demand for a sharp-in-the-corners 50 prime with fast and reliable AF that isn't a 1.5-2 pound paperweight that people will come out of the woodwork for it.  Sigma made one, but (a) it's big, (b) it lacks IS, and (c) it's AF is good but not bulletproof.  The 24/28/35 refreshes are 90% as sharp as that 50 Art but have none of the three aforementioned drawbacks.  So give me that in a 50 and I'm in on day one.

- A

Lenses / Re: Next L Lens From Canon Will be a Prime [CR2]
« on: Today at 12:43:02 PM »
* 2.0/50 IS USM remember that no 'non-L IS refresh' lens was released at a slower max aperture than the lens it was replacing.

2.8/24mm replaced with the 2.8/24mm IS USM
2.8/28mm replaced with the 2.8/28mm IS USM
2.0/35mm replaced with the 2.0/35mm IS USM

Don't see that Canon released lenses with a slower max aperture. In fact, on the contrary, they added IS and USM to their old designs.

Agree with you.  That is exactly what I just said.  Maybe you missed something above?

- A

What if they use that 50 f/1.3 formula that was on this site a couple of weeks ago and make it an L that isn't as expensive as the current one, which would replace BOTH the L and the f/1.4?  That would get around the issue of replacing the 1.4 before the L and rendering the latter obsolete.  Hopefully it would include IS, as well.

Fair question, but I think that in this very popular focal length, Canon can offer more price points because I think they are aimed at different users with different needs.

50 f/1.8 (with no 'named' AF motor technology) --> will become this thread's new 50 f/1.8 STM
(peg this around $150-200)
  • This is a budget FF prime for those growing out of kit zooms, a young student who wants to properly learn photography and delve into manual settings, etc.  This also serves nicely as an equiv 80mm first portrait lens for crop users.  Finally, it's also a "gateway drug" of a lens, as it offers a much smaller DOF and slightly sharper performance than a kit zoom -- people use this lens, get hooked on primes, and buy more expensive ones later in their 'photographic journey'.

50 f/1.4 USM (note it's micro-USM) --> will be replaced with my future best friend 50 f/nooneknows IS USM
(peg between $350 and $700 depending on features)
  • This is your classic 50mm workhorse.  Sure, Canon has an even wider aperture tool for bokeh fanatics, but the f/1.4 is the lens that gives you a little bit of everything.  It's sharp, it usually focuses quickly and doesn't let you down.  Some copies have had focusing problems and the design is a somewhat ancient one.  But imagine a 50 prime just like the 24/28/35 non-L IS refreshes -- IS, sharpness on par with the L prime of the same FL, modern/reliable/fast USM, internal focusing, improved build quality, etc. -- and you can see why people would really really really want this lens.

50 f/1.0L --> 50 f/1.2L USM --> will be replaced with a softball-sized globe of shiny silicon that magically transports colors to your sensor
(peg this around the cost of buying Lithuania)
  • This is your high-art tool and prestige piece.  You get a red ring, weather sealing gasket, a fraction of a stop quicker, and some pretty sweet bokeh.  You also (historically) have gotten questionable/finnicky AF in certain copies, but the 50 f/1.4 is guilty there too.  And if you are stopping down past f/2.8, you really don't need this lens -- the 50 f/1.4 has shown to be sharper for general use.  So many photographers do the math and say either "I don't shoot ultrawide apertures enough to warrant the added spend" or "I occasionally don't want magical glowy blur everywhere other than the center :-P" / "I might shoot landscapes with this" and opt for cheaper and/or sharper options elsewhere.

Canon could make the one 50 to rule them all and eliminate the two higher price points -- but it would be the fancier 50 that costs a ton.  Let's assume for a moment they did this, and they made an Otus/Sigma Art killer with IS.  It would be comically expensive, long and massive.  100% of existing 50L users would be interested in it, but only 10-20% of the 50 f/1.4 crowd would have the coin and desire to go for such an overpowered tool.  In short, I think Canon would be leaving a lot of money on the table with the middle group, who want a solid, reliable prime they can count on.

(And yes, I've left off the 50 macro.  There's always one person that brings that up.  :-P)

- A

Lenses / Re: Next L Lens From Canon Will be a Prime [CR2]
« on: Today at 11:52:45 AM »
Please Canon, make it something really really sharp with an MSRP under $1400.

Just sharp and accurate, doesn't have to have IS.

Like the EF 16-35/4L IS?
That's a new and very sharp lens that also have IS.... :-)

Just curious to see how a 50 MP sensor changes our perspective on what "really really really sharp" is.  I hate DXO's lens rating system, but you know they will wash all their current L lenses through that testing again on the 5Ds models.  Lenses previously hailed as legendarily sharp (the 135L or the wider T/S L lenses) will all but certainly come back to earth on such a highly resolving sensor.

I'm interested to see how our own internal pecking order of 'L lenses that need a refresh' will change once that data is available.

- A

I am very happy to be rid of the 50 f/1.4.

Based on the awesome optical characteristics of Canon's recent releases, I am confident the new 50 f/1.8 STM will easily outperform the ancient 50 f/1.4.

If this is STM + f/1.8, this will be a <$200 replacement for the nifty fifty f/1.8 -- it will not replace the 50 f/1.4. 

So swapping your 50 f/1.4 for that would be like trading a comfy old mid-sized sedan with power windows and cruise control for a brand new ultracompact with windows you roll down by hand.  It will drive better (it will be a little sharper), but I think you will miss your creature comforts (principally, focus speed).  And, personally, I think you'll feel bad when Canon eventually replaces the 50 f/1.4 with the modern non-L 50 f/nooneknows IS USM that we all are expecting.

- A

Canon, stop teasing us and give us the non-L 50 f/nooneknows IS USM that we want, need, crave and pine for.  Give me my IS, internal focusing, reliable fast modern USM, sharp corners and a relatively small size and you can take all of my money. 

The nifty fifty is underfeatured.  The sharpness per dollar is stellar, but I need the focusing to be quicker than running molasses.  Replacing a slow and noisy AF motor with an slightly-less slow STM motor is why this will be a budget lens.

The 50L is finnicky tool for shallow DOF work that delivers corners like cotton balls.  If you are shooting anything narrower than f/2.8 with it, you overpaid, as the 20+ year old 50 f/1.4 outresolves it.

I want my autofocusing 50 prime that is a 9/10 at everything and isn't a pickle jar the size and weight of a standard zoom (yeah, Sigma, I said it.).

Boatloads of cash are waiting for you, Canon.  You like cash.  Get it done. 

- A

Lenses / Re: Next L Lens From Canon Will be a Prime [CR2]
« on: Today at 11:10:23 AM »
Unfortunately, Canon's recent releases are either blah optics (ex...24mm, 28mm or 40mm 2.8) or OVER PRICED excellent optics but slow (11-24mm f4, 16-35 f4).

Why can't Canon innovate and produce quality optics for decent prices (Sigma, Tamron, heck even Rokinon with their manual focus lenses at cheap prices).

Either way, Canon is spitting out products but it seems like it is all lack luster stuff (with exception of the 7DMkII). 

I hear you, but respectfully disagree.  Canon has been pumping out a lot of good things recently. The 16-35 F/4L IS is a stellar optic they could have charged $1500+ for.  $1,199 is a very fair price for such an instrument.  (As for it being 'slow', remember that this was principally aimed at FF landscapers -- it's not an event lens, and it was not developed as a backdoor standard zoom for crop shooters.)

Tack on the mini-1DX (7D2), a 50 MP body or two, release the white unicorn 100-400L II and drop in that absurd 11-24L and I'd say Canon's had a heck of a 12 month window.

I get a lot of "Canon isn't making anything good" when I really think it's a case of "Canon isn't making anything innovative / exclusive / exotic / droolworthy", and that might be fair.  But Canon will make a boatload more money making a larger number of sensible people happy with an EF 35mm f/2 IS USM than it will by offering a 2+ pound f/1.0 standard prime design for $2-3k for a few hundred well-heeled enthusiasts.

- A

Lenses / Re: Next L Lens From Canon Will be a Prime [CR2]
« on: Today at 10:07:06 AM »
I literally just purchased the Sigma 35mm Art today -_-.  Do you guys think the rumored 35mm L II will make me regret my purchase? :'(

No existing lens can compete with the 35A, let alone a rumored one. We'll see where the chips fall if/when the 35L II materializes.

35mm is one of my favorite focal lengths. I'm very seriously considering picking up the 35 Art. I at first thought, just get the new Canon 35 f/2 IS. But then I got to thinking, I already have the 40mm f/2.8 pancake. It's kind of like, if you can only get one, the 35 f/2 IS is a good compromise of aperture, image quality, and size/weight. But, I think I like the route of the shorty forty for when I want small and light, and the 35A for the ultimate pure IQ and fast f/1.4 aperture. Anyone disagree with that thinking?
The shorty forty is a tough tradeoff.  It is exceptionally sharp, exceptionally small, and exceptionally inexpensive.

But it lacks fairly important things:
  • No IS
  • No internal focusing
  • No USM (massive if you're principally a stills shooter)
  • The manual focus override on the pancakes is by wire and it feels less responsive
  • No standard filter size (that's a minor quibble)

As a result, my ancient 50 f/1.4 or newer 28 f/2.8 IS gets the call far more often when I need a walkaround prime.

- A

Lenses / Re: Next L Lens From Canon Will be a Prime [CR2]
« on: March 03, 2015, 04:53:32 PM »
As for the 50 I agree. It would be tough if the new one is only f/2, kind of a step back. And I agree that I would probably pass on it (despite how bad Canon needs a decent, consumer level 50) if it was that slow. With how good optics/designs are getting, one of last big advantages primes have over zooms is their (more often then not) faster speeds. That is why I have not understood the new 24mm and 28mm, them only being f/2.8.

But the prior non-L 24 and 28 primes were f/2.8 as well -- Canon simply modernized those prior designs. 

I have the 28 f/2.8 IS and I am truly fond of it.  It's such a sweet spot of IQ, features and size/weight.  It's a perfect walkaround on my 5D3, IMHO.  Unless you are shooting a lot of astro or environmental portraiture, I'm hard pressed to think of a need for f/2 or faster in those focal lengths. 

- A

Lenses / Re: Next L Lens From Canon Will be a Prime [CR2]
« on: March 03, 2015, 04:20:16 PM »
It seems Logical, that a 50/2.0 IS USM will come. But who will buy a niftyfifty for 500€?

It will not be the new nifty fifty -- it will be a replacement for the 50 f/1.4 USM.   And again, we don't know it's f/2.  But a 50 prime with...

  • IS
  • Sharper than the 50L, esp. in the corners (a very simple feat if you've seen tests of that lens)
  • Fast + modern + reliable USM AF
  • Internal focusing
  • Solid build quality on par with a 100L
  • Smaller size and weight than the Sigma Art pickle jars

...will sell for a lot more than 500€ (I'd guess $799 or so) and it will still sell like hotcakes.  There is no all-around 9 out of 10 sort of autofocusing 50 prime out there, so people from all corners will come for such a lens.

The fact that this very L prime thread was hijacked to talk about it is a testament to how desirous this lens is.

- A

Lenses / Re: Next L Lens From Canon Will be a Prime [CR2]
« on: March 03, 2015, 04:14:00 PM »
If they are attempting to replace the 50mm f/1.2, why not go all the way and introduce a new f/1.0 or f/0.95 (with optimal sharpness and focusing capabilities, of course)? It's time for Canon to introduce another revolution, not just an evolution. They've certainly proven that they can do this on the wide end (ie 11-24), but it would be great to see this innovation in the form of a new extreme-aperture lens.

The reason the 50mm f/1.2L is f/1.2 is because by making it f/1.2 Canon was able to significantly increase sharpness and focusing capabilities and reduces artifacts over the 50mm f/1.0.  50mm f/1.0 requires a massive amount of glass to move around and there is not much way to get around that as it is physics.  There is no free lunch with lenses where you can have the widest aperture, fastest focusing speed, best sharpness, and least artifacts - everything is a tradeoff.

Personally I would like to see an 85mm f/1.4L, basically redo the 85mm f/1.2L II with the improvements they made in the 50mm f/1.2.  It would be nice to have an 85L that focuses as fast as the 50L f/1.2.

Agree.  I'm not a pro, but I'm going to assume that pros want reliable workhorses more than they want finnicky racehorses.   f/1.2 lenses have nontrivial tradeoffs and are not 100% money-in-the-bank sort of tools.

- A

Lenses / Re: Next L Lens From Canon Will be a Prime [CR2]
« on: March 03, 2015, 04:11:20 PM »
Comments in-line below:

It would be nice to have primes with medium focal legth, fast autofocus and good IS.
* 2.8/24 IS USM (done)
* 2.8/28 IS USM (done)
* 2.0/35 IS USM (done)

* 2.0/50 IS USM --> a near-certainty to occur (absolutely the most desired lens on this forum by a comfortable margin as no all-around EF 50 prime exists today), but I still think it's "f/nooneknows".  We've heard everything from f/1.4 IS to f/1.8 IS to f/2 IS.  As this lens is highly likely to be replacing the venerable 50 f/1.4 USM, so an f/1.4 is possible;  remember that no 'non-L IS refresh' lens was released at a slower max aperture than the lens it was replacing.
* 2.0/85 IS USM --> a near-certainty to occur as well, but it may be f/1.8 IS as the existing 85 USM is f/1.8.
* 2.8/100 Macro IS USM (done)
* 2.0/135 IS USM --> Unlikely we'll ever see a non-L in this FL again.  Canon wants us buying 70-200 zooms or ponying up for a 135 F/2L II (or IS) that will certainly come around before too long.
* 3.5/180 Macro IS USM
* 2.8/200 IS USM --> I thought a straight 200 f/2.8 prime has only been an L lens.  This isn't 'non-L IS refresh' material to me.

Canon clearly worked through this, but which of the remaining will be next? The fast primes are made by Zeiss.

Also on the EF non-L midrange prime front are the 100mm f/2 that no one ever talks about and the very well liked 100 F/2.8 non-L macro.  I could see the second one being refreshed -- it's a tremendous value today that has it's admirers. 

- A

Lenses / Re: Next L Lens From Canon Will be a Prime [CR2]
« on: March 03, 2015, 02:10:28 PM »
As this is not a 50mm IS refresh rumor (which will undoubtedly not be an L lens), if there was a new L lens on offer, I'd guess the one most in need of a refresh would be:

35mm   f/1.4L - 17 years old
135mm f/2L - 19 years old

Those aren't the oldest L primes, but they are a strong combination of old and in high demand.  My money would be on one of those.

- A

Is the 135mm in need of an update? I haven't heard anything put praise for that lens.

Crudely, there are three camps with the 135L:

  • The lens is stellar and does not need modifying.
  • The glass is fine but IS would be a great add.
  • Sony has a 135 f/1.8 and we don't.  Also: Waaaaaah.  (My rebuttal?  Our autofocus works.)

And deep down, as legendary as lenses like the 135L and 200 F/2L IS have been, old is old:  there's always room to improve resolution for higher resolving sensors, reduce flare, reduce distortion, reduce chromatic aberration, reduce weight, improve weathersealing, offer or improve the IS, etc.

The bigger question is whether those improvements are worth putting off my future non-L 50mm f/nooneknows IS USM.  And the answer is no.  Gimme my 50, dammit.

- A

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