Messages

391

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 5D3 & 600ex-rt + AF assist beam = slower focus

« on: November 14, 2012, 09:34:24 AM »

There is no way low light AF assist focus accuracy wouldn’t be part of a new camera’s field UAT

I’d love to see the paperwork from the in field testers of this camera.

were/did they
a) completely incompetent
b) yes men
c) report accurately basic issues and were ignored

I wonder if some of them frequent this web site but can’t say anything 

First, real quick, what is UAT?  I'm missing it, sorry.  Thanks.

So would I!!  I think this all the time!  Every time I ask the question, "Gee, did anyone actually use this piece of sht when they were designing it???" with regard to many things I've owned over the years, not just cameras.  I think that's the reason cameras are so good for the most part, they are very heavily tested and used to determine what features, ergonomics, etc will actually work best.  A lot more so than just about any other item I buy.

Whoever is granted the chance to beta test pre-release cameras I'm sure are buried in NDAs and I'm sure they are more than competent to perform the task.  They submit their findings and Canon does what they want with them.  It can't be any other way.  I'm sure the competition would love to get pre-release copies and would pay well for them.  So the beta testers are likely very good, very loyal and very discreet.

IMO, there is no way Canon doesn't know about every microscopic detail of this camera as the development proceeds.  At the end of the day they released it as it is (after they probably delayed as long as they could) and assume they can continue to fix and improve it after that time with the public's real world testing as a further guide.  Canon is likely working with concurrent development timelines of products, not individual product development.  We are part of that timeline.  This is why I prefer to wait 6-9 months before I buy a new camera, I don't want to be part of the initial bleeding edge beta testing for Canon and pay the high release price for the privilege.  At the end of the day, Canon is a business out to make money, not make perfect cameras.  When they reach a certain point in the development timeline, it's time to release, period.  Because they lose money every week they delay.  I'm not saying they didn't delay release, I'm saying eventually they can't delay any longer and if the problems can't be fixed, they'll try to fix them later and let us use them as-is until that time.  They are NOT going to scrap the entire project or delay indefinitely just because it doesn't work like we think it should.  They probably went too far in development of the AF system to turn back when they realized the low light AF wasn't what they expected from the design.  So, quick(!), take that other design we were working on and create the 6D!!  And if I'm right, buying a 6D at release time will hopefully result in fewer bugs than usual because the tech in it has already been tested to death in the 5D3 and 1DX and it was merely tweaked and modified in the 6D and put in a different shell.  In 6 months, we might be saying that the serious wedding photographer should carry both the 6D for low light and the 5D3 for all other IQ stuff.  Fingers crossed....

392

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 5D3 & 600ex-rt + AF assist beam = slower focus

« on: November 14, 2012, 09:06:01 AM »

Sorry.  Whatever the case, I got enough consensus to determine I should try returning my copy and hope for a better copy next week.

I am amazed that this issue pops up now after so much time - maybe people are just now realizing that it's the camera's and not their fault? In any case I don't understand why switching 5d3 copies should solve anything, either the firmware/camera/flash-combination has broken low-light af or it hasn't. Go, 6d, go :-p

So now instead of having the subjects wait 3-4 seconds for the AF Lock to work with the flash attached, I have to have them wait even longer while I detach or attach the flash and fumble with it or change a menu setting before I can take the shot.

I guess turning the flash off should suffice - isn't it? Maybe even turning off the af assist feature in camera and disabling the flash to fire (on the 600rt, that's a dedicated button).

Don't be amazed.  The issue will continue to pop up until it doesn't exist.  I am switching copies because others seem to not have the problem to the extent I think I do.  After using the 2nd copy, I'll decide whether or not to dump the 5D3 or keep it.  And I totally agree, the 6D very well might be the fix, esp for what I do.  I was going to buy the 6D in the first place but got a great deal on the 5D3 so I figured why not?  It's 'new camera time' either way.  I turn my flash on/off all the time.  I was referring to the comments that spoke to physically removing the flash instead of just powering it off to fix the problem.  And I disabled the AF Assist right away after I read that fix.  Not much of a change for me, still poor low light AF Lock.  I work hard to be objective and not let the fancy new camera convince me that it must just be me.  It's just a tool.  I like to think I'm the one with the brain, as scary as that sounds.

As much as I like some of the features of the 5D3, I actually hope the 6D is better for me, I'll save several hundred dollars and probably make a profit on selling my 5D3 because of the good deal I got.  (For me, the camera isn't bling, it's the next accidentally broken expensive tool I might have to replace someday.)  I just hope the 6D isn't delayed over and over like Canon is so well known for.

393

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Does anybody think the 1dx price will come down for the holidays...why?

« on: November 14, 2012, 08:26:56 AM »

My Magic 8 Ball says:  Try Again Later.  Damn.  Frickin' Ball!  Always pussin' out when I need a straight answer!

Seriously, IMO you *might* save $200-$300 by negotiating or get some extras thrown in free because the dealer wants your business.  Someone buying a 1DX is a potential "big fish".  Plus it looks good to sell one of those suckers.  (Wonder what the profit margin is?)

Northstar, what feature(s) of the 1DX are you looking at that makes you want to replace your 5D3 or add to your inventory of fine cameras?  I'm just curious because I gave that same question a lot of thought before I bought my 5D3.  Because I use my cameras outdoors a lot, I look at everything I buy as the next broken item due to drop or whatever can happen.  Even the 5D3 is a lot of money, more than I really should be spending as a non-pro.  Have you rented one?  Do you know or discussed it with someone who already has one?  What has you excited about it?

What are the reasons/benefits to buy a 1DX?  Well for sure durability, super badass speed and then the incremental differences about ergonomics, metering controls, etc.  If you absolutely gotta get that shot of Michael Phelps diving in, 12fps would be nice insurance!  However, if someone is paying out of pocket and unless the shots being taken are literally once in a lifetime, my ass is toast if I don't get them, why spend the money?  (You can bet I would buy two 1DXs in a minute if my career/reputation was over without shots it could provide.  But that rarely happens.)  In most cases, I would rather have at most a 5D3 and then several nice L lenses.

Semi-unrelated thought about the definition of "Pros"
As for the comments about pros... I'm not a "pro" but I am a small business owner and I have known some pros over the years.  All 'pro' means is someone charges money for their pictures.  So I'll go out on a limb and say most pros in the camera ecosystem are small business owners.  If you know pro photographers, most are not working with budgets handed down from accounting they have to use or lose.  And they usually don't buy anything more than a box of paper clips without mapping out the purchase to fit within the accounting limits of the business.  Esp if they have employees.  Those pros that buy things on a whim are usually out of business and heavily in debt within a year or two after they've blown that small business loan seed money.  Smart business owners are very conservative because it's a lot less stressful at bill paying time and frankly, they would rather eat and buy personal items than have big ticket business assets that might result in a cold house with hungry kids or wives.

Now with that said, there are myriad of other "pro" entities that are not small businesses, they are graphics production houses, ad agencies, publication companies with studios or photographer pools, etc, etc.  IMO, those are the entities with large budgets that consider camera equipment as assets and a lot of money gets thrown around so things like a 1DX with 5 L lenses each (or 3, or 5, or 10 sets of them) isn't a camera or a lens, it's just a number on a balance sheet in another dept and a decision is made and the pro photographer (employee, not owner) comes in to work one day and there are 20 cases of goodies sitting in his office.

I assume that when many people on this forum say 'pro' with regard to buying, they automatically think of the latter scenario?  (Or they think of the 1% of wealthy individuals that just like to buy expensive toys.)  But when I think of 'pro', I think of the first scenario where if a $7000 purchase is made, it better be paid for within the year because baby needs a new pair of shoes!!  I bet a lot of those pros buy 5D2 or 5D3 bodies and keep the rest of the money in the bank.  As long as their clients love their work, it makes zero diff how the image happened, it just looks lovely.  Here are your pictures and my invoice.  Thank you!

394

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 5D3 & 600ex-rt + AF assist beam = slower focus

« on: November 13, 2012, 02:09:34 PM »

Yeah some people are mixing up the issue at hand here.
The AF of the 5D3 is outstanding, even in super low light (near darkness) situations. It hits fast and accurate!
BUT, if you use a flash with the AF assist beam on in low light situations. It sucks. And that is the problem, which is quite frustrating.

The low/available light AF Lock has never been fast enough for me, regardless of whether or not the AF Assist is enabled/disabled or the flash is present or not.  So I thought that might be relevant to the topic even if it didn't match the hypothesis or original poster's results exactly.  Sorry if it took the thread off topic.  I thought slow AF Lock malfunction was the underlying topic and the AF Assist beam setting was the fix.  So I addressed the problem and noted the fix didn't work for me.  Therefore, AF is somewhat broken for me, and that's how the topic drifted.  Sorry.  Whatever the case, I got enough consensus to determine I should try returning my copy and hope for a better copy next week.  So thanks for that everyone!

And I find it disconcerting that the fix for bad low light AF performance is to disable a key feature to trick the camera into working correctly.  Who goes to a dark shooting environment with no flash attached so they will have a better chance of pictures being in focus but possibly too dark to use?  So now instead of having the subjects wait 3-4 seconds for the AF Lock to work with the flash attached, I have to have them wait even longer while I detach or attach the flash and fumble with it or change a menu setting before I can take the shot.  Hmm.  Sounds like a great work around to me.  Thanks Canon!  I guess the reality is that we're back to manual focus again.

395

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 5D3 & 600ex-rt + AF assist beam = slower focus

« on: November 12, 2012, 11:15:43 PM »

What sticks in my head is the fact that Canon very likely knew how this worked months before it was officially released.  This camera has been in development and field testing for years.  They are likely seeing some kind of spike in return/repair rates for the same AF problem.  If I just returned mine, 1000's of others have got to be returning theirs or having Canon check them at a repair center.  Most buyers of this level camera are going to know how to use the thing so Canon shouldn't expect that the problem won't be noticed.  Esp when the low light features are so heavily marketed.  So what gives??  I know my camera had to have a problem, even if it's a design problem across the board.  But I trust the professional I know that owns two 5D3's and says she loves them and hasn't had any problems at all.  She isn't a fan-girl, all she cares about are the images.  So is the Canon QC/QA so poor that some bodies work great while others don't?  And why hasn't lensrentals.com said anything about it?  You would think with all the 5D3 rentals they do, they would have received plenty of complaints as well.  No mention of that, that I know of anyway.  So I'm holding out a tiny ray of hope that the next camera that shows up will be untouched brand new, undamaged during shipment and work perfectly in all respects.

All I know for sure is that as I do post processing on a lot of images I shot recently with my 5Dc I am still blown away with the quality that comes out of that camera.  And they didn't cost $3000+ to make!

Depending on what I discover with the second copy of the 5D3 body when I receive it hopefully next week, I guess the 6D may become the 'last hope' Canon camera for significant low light AF performance.  And if the 6D DOES focus significantly faster and better than the 5D3, I think we are going to see a lot of pissed off 5D3 owners!  I don't even want to think about what the 1DX owners will do!

396

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 5D3 & 600ex-rt + AF assist beam = slower focus

« on: November 12, 2012, 07:11:23 PM »

Thanks for spending time on this Northstar!  I'm looking forward to receiving the replacement camera and hopefully seeing better performance.  It helps to have someone else to compare with.

Since I shoot in both normal indoor and darker indoor/outdoor areas using my older cameras, esp the old trusty 5Dc, I'm comparing to those with regard to what is already normal for me and achievable with older technology.  If the 5D3 can't improve on that in the same circumstances or performs worse, than I have to assume either the camera is faulty, everyone is lying or it has a design flaw.  What else can I assume, right?  I suspect a little bit of everything is possible.  I know how to manage my expectations, but what I (and others) have experienced sounds ridiculous.

I've already got the good glass.  Canon marketing, various reviews and some other individuals attest that the 5D3 is a miracle camera.  So I guess I just want the miracle dammit!   

Thanks again!

397

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 5DMiii Shutter Button doesnt click ?

« on: November 12, 2012, 06:04:19 PM »

Go try several different bodies, Rebels, XXD, XD, etc at the nearest retail camera store and compare them all.  That should help you decide what is what.

398

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 5D3 & 600ex-rt + AF assist beam = slower focus

« on: November 12, 2012, 06:02:51 PM »

Good to know, thanks Northstar.  I think many agree that the AF Assist is a big part of the problem.  What I don't understand is if the flash is attached but turned off, does it still contribute to the problem?  It didn't seem to matter much in my case.  I've always thought that the camera ignored the flash if it wasn't powered on.  And if it does matter - I'll be damned if I'm going to start physically removing and replacing my flash all the time just to get the AF to work correctly!  (But it will be good know!)

And then there's the whole discussion on the whole - if the camera was working correctly, this whole thread wouldn't even exist.

Wouldn't it be nice if the only thing we had to complain about with this camera was the fact that it only came in one color?   

399

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Help me upgrade my 550d

« on: November 12, 2012, 05:22:16 PM »

If you get the 5DIII, I would love to hear how your low light AF performance goes using the 24-105 (or any lens FTM).  Mine was pretty pathetic as others have reported with their 5DIII bodies.  Regardless of how it works for you, specify what settings you are using, whether flash is used, etc.

400

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 5D3 & 600ex-rt + AF assist beam = slower focus

« on: November 12, 2012, 05:14:36 PM »

Here to put this one to bed...

This problems exists. FULL STOP.

I'm sad/glad to hear that others can confirm this.  At first, I thought I was nuts.  It took me a little while to decide that it wasn't me and the camera was flaky.  And just when I thought it was a done deal, I would have some good performance again and then I would think it was just me again.  I hate intermittent problems.  But now I can reproduce it pretty well so when I get the replacement body, I should be able to tell pretty quick whether or not it is a consistent problem with the camera.  (As consistent and you can get I guess with a sample size of two bodies from the same retailer shipped 3 weeks apart.)  I fear nothing will change based on so many people echoing what I have experienced.  But since there are those out there that aren't seeing this, maybe I'll get lucky the 2nd time around.  Fingers Crossed!!

401

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 5D3 & 600ex-rt + AF assist beam = slower focus

« on: November 12, 2012, 05:02:01 PM »

Rusty..

-  One Shot (rarely ever AI Focus or Servo)
-  Center Point Focus (the way I've always shot on every camera)
-  AF Assist Beam OFF (never use it anyway)
-  Daylight, Fluorescent or Tungsten WB depending...
-  Eval Metering mostly, rarely spot or center
-  Shot Priority AF (not Release Priority)
-  General Purpose AF Case (Case 1?)
-  I usually have a RD2000 flash attached that has no AF Assist beam support, turned off or on depending.

..

http://www.sunpak.jp/english/products/rd2000/rendou.html

Rd2000 compatible?  Yes, it works and fires the same as on my other cameras and I checked with Tocad, it is fully compatible, no fmwr update needed.
Have you set the AF to cross type points only?  Yes
Have you tried middle shot priority NOT focus OR release, but in the middle of the two?  Yes
Have you cleared all settings and reset them to factory default?  (Try starting from scratch)  Several times.
Do you ever do available low light shooting without a flash attached?  (Meaning, no flash attached to the camera)  Yes but I usually attach the flash and power it on or off.  Been doing it that way for years on several cameras, same flash.
Highlight tone priority-OFF  Yes
Shadow optimization - OFF  Yes

In low light, I have not had these issues you mention with my 5d3...I have had af issues when a flash is attached.  Of course "low light shooting" is subjective....my low light definition is different from yours.  However, I distinctly remember a low light AF / iso experience recently where i was at a park shooting the kids and the sun had set 10 full minutes earlier, and I had no problem locking on to kids running around, no hunting.   That is the level of low light shooting that my 5d3 has...just for your info. 

Edit...and I should add that I live in a heavily wooded area...10 minutes after sunset is pretty dark.( compared to the desert or coast)
Good luck...just trying to help..

Thank you very much for your ideas Northstar!  I appreciate your taking the time to offer help.  See above inside the quote for my specific answers in bold.  In general, I prefer to shoot with the camera set pretty basic.  Center AF Point, very few in camera tweaks to the image.  Since I shoot RAW, most of it doesn't matter anyway.

I decided to return the camera for exchange as defective before my return period expired.  Since there are other photographers that I know and trust that have not had the same experience as I have with their camera, I thought I would roll the dice and see if another 5D3 camera copy would work correctly/better.  If I see the same behavior, I'll just sell it and wait for the 6D.  What a PITA.

402

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Semi-Erotic Photography: Questions...

« on: November 12, 2012, 12:34:49 PM »

If you visit The Strobist (http://strobist.blogspot.com/) and read, learn, study, etc you will discover that you can make a lot of venues work.  You can make the background disappear or make it work for you based on how you manipulate the light, shutter speed, etc.  This might help you adapt to more locations and still impress by keeping the model as the main point of interest in the images.  I also really like some of Stephen Eastwood's work, check it out!  I bet some of your models would love the look of some of these edgy styles but they are pretty advanced.  Definitely something to strive for.  http://stepheneastwood.com/

403

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 5D3 & 600ex-rt + AF assist beam = slower focus

« on: November 12, 2012, 12:21:04 PM »

Yeah, by way of "posting progression" (the dreaded 2nd stage of "talking to myself") I sort of commented my way into a possible answer to this, didn't I?   

Funny thing is that I was originally concentrating on purchasing the 6D and I did an impulse buy on a steal deal for the 5D3.  Now I guess I am holding out hope that the 6D will be the best camera for my needs instead - low/available light photography.  Fingers Crossed!!  I hate to give up CF media though.  CF is a MUCH better media design.  There's a reason why it is still used in the faster/better bodies.  Having both in the 5D3 was really nice.

404

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Use of 5D MarkIII Chromatic Aberration Correction feature built into the camera?

« on: November 12, 2012, 10:58:19 AM »

Ditto on all answers above.  IMO, NR will require in camera processing performance I don't want to lose.  I don't think the CA correction is as taxing since it uses built-in lens profiles to do it.  Only my assumption though, take it with a grain of salt!

405

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Semi-Erotic Photography: Questions...

« on: November 12, 2012, 09:30:31 AM »

OK, I read though this.  All good suggestions.  I don't have experience with erotic photography per se but I would offer this common sense advice about location...

Strip clubs are a different world.  You live in New Orleans, you should already understand that better than most.  Whenever you bring strangers to your home, they know where you live.  They also know what you own.  You become a target for theft, or worse.  What if a shoot goes poorly or a perfectly good shoot pisses off a boyfriend or husband.  You're screwed.  Re-read the law enforcement inspired post above about what habits these people may (or may not) have.  These girls live a rough lifestyle.  Even if they are trustworthy, someone they know may not be and after hearing about your place, may decide it's a payday.

If you drive a car with a fancy stereo and people know it, it will eventually be broken into.  Same goes for your house/apt with a bunch of photo equipment.

I don't care who you know or how nice they are.  Other people they know have the potential to cause you grief, loss or harm.  If it were me, I would always work on location with a partner (for your safety and theirs).  No one on one, always have another person there with you.  Meet at another home or hotel room with background equipment and lights.  Don't bring a bunch of strangers parading through your home where you live and keep everything you own.  It's just a bad idea.  You will either arrive back to a trashed home or worse, have someone visit you with bad intentions.  (Are you the A$$Hole Pervert that took pictures of my wife naked!!??)

Sorry, some things aren't worth the risk and you don't owe these people any favors.  Don't shortcut this, do it right.  There's a reason the pro studios actually have studios.  With locks and alarms.  It sounds like to me you are moving into the business too fast.  Figure out how to go to them and then work your way up to a studio as the business grows.