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Author Topic: 36x36 mm cmos sensor  (Read 12608 times)

TexPhoto

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Re: 36x36 mm cmos sensor
« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2011, 03:11:56 PM »
OK I can't have 36x36mm because there "might" be some vignetting?  SO what!, crop it.

Think about it.  Let's say your camera has a big square sensor and the resulting RAW image would have more vignetting than the current rectangular sensor.  So What?  Crop it to rectangular, or square, or a circle. Whatever you the photographer want.  Hell you could crop to horizontal or verticle with no loss from the current system.

Remember the edge of the image produced by the lens is not a hard line.  Unlike the diagrams above. It tapers off slowly, and even that changes with zoom, focus,  and aperture changes. (Again, unlike the diagrams above) 

So no, a square sensor need not be smaller on the wide side, it just will require the photographer understand unless he crops it to the exact size of the current sensor there may be a little more work involved. 

The jpeg could default to the current FF size to avoid shock and horror by people who don't understand there is still a little work to do after the photo is taken.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2011, 03:22:24 PM by TexPhoto »

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Re: 36x36 mm cmos sensor
« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2011, 03:11:56 PM »

jhpeterson

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Re: 36x36 mm cmos sensor
« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2011, 04:18:21 PM »
OK I can't have 36x36mm because there "might" be some vignetting?  SO what!, crop it.

Think about it.  Let's say your camera has a big square sensor and the resulting RAW image would have more vignetting than the current rectangular sensor.  So What?  Crop it to rectangular, or square, or a circle. Whatever you the photographer want.  Hell you could crop to horizontal or verticle with no loss from the current system.

Remember the edge of the image produced by the lens is not a hard line.  Unlike the diagrams above. It tapers off slowly, and even that changes with zoom, focus,  and aperture changes. (Again, unlike the diagrams above) 

So no, a square sensor need not be smaller on the wide side, it just will require the photographer understand unless he crops it to the exact size of the current sensor there may be a little more work involved. 

The jpeg could default to the current FF size to avoid shock and horror by people who don't understand there is still a little work to do after the photo is taken.
I think that's exactly the point!
Rather than limit the photographer to one particular format, this would give them the opportunityy to use whatever would work best for their specific situation.  I like the idea of JPEG defaults, say perhaps in 3:2, 4:3 and 1:1 in both horizontal and vertical modes.  Maybe 16:9, too.  Seems to me this would deliver noticably greater IQ in most all circumstances than the present "fixed-format" setups.
Also, it would give all lenses a certain amount of "shift" function, which one would work on (from the RAW files in post-processing.  And, in cases where a certain amount of falloff was acceptable, it would offer a much larger file from most all current (FF) lenses.
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akiskev

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Re: 36x36 mm cmos sensor
« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2011, 05:07:54 PM »
I think that some Panasonic models like the GH2 do the thing you describe to some extend.
It is called "multi-aspect sensor" but the sensor's total surface area is never used to capture a single image.
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Re: 36x36 mm cmos sensor
« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2011, 05:35:19 PM »
OK I can't have 36x36mm because there "might" be some vignetting?  SO what!, crop it.

Think about it.  Let's say your camera has a big square sensor and the resulting RAW image would have more vignetting than the current rectangular sensor.  So What?  Crop it to rectangular, or square, or a circle. Whatever you the photographer want.  Hell you could crop to horizontal or verticle with no loss from the current system.

Remember the edge of the image produced by the lens is not a hard line.  Unlike the diagrams above. It tapers off slowly, and even that changes with zoom, focus,  and aperture changes. (Again, unlike the diagrams above) 

So no, a square sensor need not be smaller on the wide side, it just will require the photographer understand unless he crops it to the exact size of the current sensor there may be a little more work involved. 

The jpeg could default to the current FF size to avoid shock and horror by people who don't understand there is still a little work to do after the photo is taken.

The real question is who would pay a medium format price for a sensor that they could not fully use.  Costs to produce sensors go up exponentially with size.  Its going to cost a whole lot more.

By paying the price for a medium format camera, you could use the whole sensor.

drummstikk

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Re: 36x36 mm cmos sensor
« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2011, 05:38:47 PM »
In fact I recently read that typically, if a professional was trained on a particular range of kit, that tends to be what he or she sticks with for life.

I'd say that's quite true. Although I did switch from Nikon to Canon in about 1991. It was a relative nightmare then, mainly due to the manual focus direction issue. But at the time, with much more of my working life ahead of me than there is now, and having the greater flexibility of the young, I decided to take the plunge. Back then, the comparison was Nikon F4 vs. Canon EOS-1, and the EOS was revolutionary by comparison. At this point, having progressed much further into "old fart-hood", I wouldn't put myself through that again without an *extremely* good reason.

I will take back one thing I said earlier. I do know at least one Canon shooter who switched to Nikon D3, but that was in a "pool equipment" situation at a large newspaper. The photographer was able to switch with no cash outlay on his part, and would have been able to switch back after a few weeks or months if things were not working out. Most of us don't have anywhere near that kind of flexibility. I haven't run into this individual for a long time, so I'm not sure if he stayed with it permanently or not.
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HughHowey

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Re: 36x36 mm cmos sensor
« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2011, 05:42:32 PM »
If the "rectangle" maxes out the circle of light from the lens (and why wouldn't they do it this way?), then a square would have a smaller "wide" side.

That's exactly right.

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aldvan

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Re: 36x36 mm cmos sensor
« Reply #21 on: June 02, 2011, 01:38:45 AM »
I think that some Panasonic models like the GH2 do the thing you describe to some extend.
It is called "multi-aspect sensor" but the sensor's total surface area is never used to capture a single image.

My backup Leica D-Lux 4 let me choose among 4:3, 3:2 and 16:9. I don't know how that choice is made possible (mechanically or electronically), but, to be honest for me that is not one of the little camera's main features...
 

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Re: 36x36 mm cmos sensor
« Reply #21 on: June 02, 2011, 01:38:45 AM »

sjaudio

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Re: 36x36 mm cmos sensor
« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2011, 11:40:14 PM »
I don't see much logic in Canon going for a square sensor, but how about a 4x5?  It's approximately the same surface area as the current full frame sensor and if Canon is really going after the medium format crowd with their next 1Ds, it would make more sense to go with that ratio.  What do you guys think?

jhpeterson

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Re: 36x36 mm cmos sensor
« Reply #23 on: June 06, 2011, 12:01:28 AM »
I don't see much logic in Canon going for a square sensor, but how about a 4x5?  It's approximately the same surface area as the current full frame sensor and if Canon is really going after the medium format crowd with their next 1Ds, it would make more sense to go with that ratio.  What do you guys think?
I, for one, have never cared much for the 4:5 ratio.  It's boring, trite, too close to square for my liking.  Maybe that's because I've primarily worked in the 35mm format, and have long appreciated its close to "golden rectangle" proportions. 
But the real beauty of a square sensor would be its versatility.  The idea of never having to turn the camera to change from a horizontal to a vertical shot is very appealing to me, with the ability to produce a usable image in a wide variety of fomats an added bonus. 
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Heidrun

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Re: 36x36 mm cmos sensor
« Reply #24 on: June 06, 2011, 01:44:51 AM »
I would love to have a square  36x36 sensor. I think it would suite my pictures very well
« Last Edit: June 06, 2011, 01:48:36 AM by Heidrun »

ReyMorlu

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Re: 36x36 mm cmos sensor
« Reply #25 on: June 09, 2011, 12:59:36 PM »
Hey guys!! What r u speaking about??? :o

A square shaped digital is my dream, since I sold out two years ago, all my Hasselblad equipement... I miss up the beautifull and interesting composition capabillities that a square gives.

BUT I do not know if you have noticed a few technical little problems, that MAKES ABSOLUTELLY IMPOSIBLE to still using EOS lenses (that we use nowadays in our equipements) in a ficticious 36x36 sensor in special way with reflex design.
FF Lens coverage circle is 43.26mm (I have to admit that a 600mm lens in example has much more but... impossible to be used in practice, because of mount)
36x36mm needs 50.9 circle diameter! not covered by lenses... then impossible!!  :'(
Other option 30.5x30.5mm... OMG yeah!  This might be... but...  what about the mirror cell??  :-[ we have to increase the size of the damn mirror and then, the camera body! about 6mm deeper increasing then distance from focal plane & lens rear mount... like an extension tube, if makro are your expectations OK, but for the rest of us ¡What a S___! No infinite focus is a hard lack... Isn't it?  LOL
The last possibillity is -I think- 24x24 tini format , in a special trial camera that I'm sure will never comes to light.

Why I sold my Hassy?... because I live in Canary Islands and no 120 film & lab developement!!
And moreover, I do not pay for a digiback 11.000$, not crazy enough!

adamdoesmovies

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Re: 36x36 mm cmos sensor
« Reply #26 on: June 10, 2011, 04:43:08 PM »
Hey guys!! What r u speaking about??? :o

A square shaped digital is my dream, since I sold out two years ago, all my Hasselblad equipement... I miss up the beautifull and interesting composition capabillities that a square gives.

BUT I do not know if you have noticed a few technical little problems, that MAKES ABSOLUTELLY IMPOSIBLE to still using EOS lenses (that we use nowadays in our equipements) in a ficticious 36x36 sensor in special way with reflex design.
FF Lens coverage circle is 43.26mm (I have to admit that a 600mm lens in example has much more but... impossible to be used in practice, because of mount)
36x36mm needs 50.9 circle diameter! not covered by lenses... then impossible!!  :'(
Other option 30.5x30.5mm... OMG yeah!  This might be... but...  what about the mirror cell??  :-[ we have to increase the size of the damn mirror and then, the camera body! about 6mm deeper increasing then distance from focal plane & lens rear mount... like an extension tube, if makro are your expectations OK, but for the rest of us ¡What a S___! No infinite focus is a hard lack... Isn't it?  LOL
The last possibillity is -I think- 24x24 tini format , in a special trial camera that I'm sure will never comes to light.

Why I sold my Hassy?... because I live in Canary Islands and no 120 film & lab developement!!
And moreover, I do not pay for a digiback 11.000$, not crazy enough!

You should have sold the body, kept the lenses, and gotten a converter.  I ended up doing this instead of selling my mamiya, and its old manual focus lenses now have a way of making pretty much everything else in my kit seem inferior.

jeremymerriam

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Re: 36x36 mm cmos sensor
« Reply #27 on: June 10, 2011, 07:08:23 PM »
I doubt people will do a full systems change due to price.

Truer words never spoken. Price is about the LAST thing to enter into the equation if you are actually talking about the tools with which you make your living.

It took a true game changer like the Nikon D3 to get me to even THINK about switching systems. Several of the other Canon shooters in my area were looking longingly at the images the Nikon guys were getting in the crappy light situations, but nobody I know actually switched. Most people choke on the pricetag, and some of us who are heavy old-school manual focusers can't abide the idea of having to re-learn how to do it "backwards."

People like me who work in news/editorial/event photography should be in the ideal target market to switch to the Nikon D3 due to it's low-light chops. But, frankly, this area does not pay exceptionally well, so for most of us it's just too painful to consider dumping the 10 G's or more it would cost to switch even if you sell your current gear at a good price. And while the D3 is better in low light, Canon's are still quite good.

At the other end of the spectrum, the heavy duty commercial people who are raking in thousands per day don't HAVE to switch (at least not for the low-light capability) because they help themselves to light from a phalanx of Elinchroms. It may be a different story for hobbyists who may make their living in dentistry or lawyering, or the ones whose "system" is just a body and one or two lenses, but aside from that, there's not a whole lot of switching going on.

Legitimate/professional commercial photographers are not shooting with SLR bodies.  They are shooting medium format.

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Re: 36x36 mm cmos sensor
« Reply #27 on: June 10, 2011, 07:08:23 PM »

Heidrun

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Re: 36x36 mm cmos sensor
« Reply #28 on: June 10, 2011, 07:23:29 PM »
Dont know why people are saying that you cant have a 36x36 sensor. Now it is 36x24 , and a lens is round.. so i dont see the problem here.
I want a square one, and i want it bad

bikersbeard

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Re: 36x36 mm cmos sensor
« Reply #29 on: June 10, 2011, 07:31:40 PM »
read the above posts, it explains why you cant have 36x36..

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Re: 36x36 mm cmos sensor
« Reply #29 on: June 10, 2011, 07:31:40 PM »