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Author Topic: Which second speedlight should I buy?  (Read 6266 times)

Marsu42

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Re: Which second speedlight should I buy?
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2013, 11:56:11 AM »
Thanks Marsu42. I do need quicker recycling times so a 600 would really help with this.

Can't comment on the pw option, but recycling time on the 600rt with an external power pack (I've got a €100 non-aa battery pack) is really impressive - but of course that doesn't help if your external 430ex2 cannot keep up if you also need that.

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Re: Which second speedlight should I buy?
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2013, 11:56:11 AM »

Meh

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Re: Which second speedlight should I buy?
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2013, 12:34:17 PM »
screw speedlights... sell them and get a nice strobe kit... Much MUCH more fuller and complete light... consistent output, battery packs available to take them on location...  much more control...  See the light... no pun intended  =)

What kit do you recommend that's reasonably priced for a basic setup,  reasonably portable, reasonably easy/quick to set up on location, good quality/value, etc.?

awinphoto

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Re: Which second speedlight should I buy?
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2013, 12:54:38 PM »
screw speedlights... sell them and get a nice strobe kit... Much MUCH more fuller and complete light... consistent output, battery packs available to take them on location...  much more control...  See the light... no pun intended  =)

What kit do you recommend that's reasonably priced for a basic setup,  reasonably portable, reasonably easy/quick to set up on location, good quality/value, etc.?

Hey meh... Alien Bee's... White Lightnings... both can work with the vagabound battery pack... and each 1600 w/s monoblock is cleaper than the 600 series/580's, and have higher GN's and a fuller light than the 600 and 580 at it's fully zoomed maximum output...  They take me seconds to set up compared to mickey mousing speedlights with speedlights softboxes...  Yes, they're bigger, but they are much better impo

edit... personally I splurged and got the white lightnings, but alien bee's share the same flash tube as the WL's and have housing made out of material that's nearly bullet proof.  Drop one of these... you may have to replace a $20 flashtube... drop a 580 at the right angle, you may have to replace the entire unit. 
« Last Edit: January 10, 2013, 01:15:37 PM by awinphoto »
Canon 5d III, Canon 24-105L, Canon 17-40L, Canon 70-200 F4L, Canon 100L 2.8, 430EX 2's and a lot of bumps along the road to get to where I am.

Lawliet

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Re: Which second speedlight should I buy?
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2013, 01:52:37 PM »
screw speedlights... sell them and get a nice strobe kit...

Thats way to definitive for my taste - even with a quite decent strobe kit at hand my speedlights/-lites get quite a lot to do. Different tools, use what fits the situation best...

sagittariansrock

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Re: Which second speedlight should I buy?
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2013, 02:13:44 PM »
Yongnuo is the answer.

I am in the same boat. I have a 430 II and a 420, and currently use the optical trigger in the 7D.
One way (the cheaper option) will be to buy another 430EX II and the Yongnuo radio triggers (YN-622C x 3). That will set you off about $ 400-ish, be all RF. Pros: cheaper; cons: does not support high-speed sync AFAIK.
The other option is to sell everything, and go with 600RT and either get another 600RT and the replacement for 430EX when it comes out. You'd also need the new ST-E3. If you get the 600RT and keep using the optical trigger it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Pros: future-proof, best Canon has to offer in terms of features; cons: very expensive
A middle ground is to buy a 580EX II (or two, replacing the existing 430EX II), and the three YN-622s. I might go that route and get one 580 first, and then replace my 430 later.
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Lawliet

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Re: Which second speedlight should I buy?
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2013, 02:45:01 PM »
and keep using the optical trigger it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

With the YNs that have a slave cell (or anything that has something akin to the SU-4 mode, Metz 52-AF comes to mind) one can just use the RT system in manual/auto mode. Less randomness then ETTL, and the non RT flashes simply contribute at their preset power level, ideal for lights that don't require to much nurturing.

Meh

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Re: Which second speedlight should I buy?
« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2013, 03:04:41 PM »
screw speedlights... sell them and get a nice strobe kit... Much MUCH more fuller and complete light... consistent output, battery packs available to take them on location...  much more control...  See the light... no pun intended  =)

What kit do you recommend that's reasonably priced for a basic setup,  reasonably portable, reasonably easy/quick to set up on location, good quality/value, etc.?

Hey meh... Alien Bee's... White Lightnings... both can work with the vagabound battery pack... and each 1600 w/s monoblock is cleaper than the 600 series/580's, and have higher GN's and a fuller light than the 600 and 580 at it's fully zoomed maximum output...  They take me seconds to set up compared to mickey mousing speedlights with speedlights softboxes...  Yes, they're bigger, but they are much better impo

edit... personally I splurged and got the white lightnings, but alien bee's share the same flash tube as the WL's and have housing made out of material that's nearly bullet proof.  Drop one of these... you may have to replace a $20 flashtube... drop a 580 at the right angle, you may have to replace the entire unit.

Why did you go for the White Lightnings over the Einsteins?

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Re: Which second speedlight should I buy?
« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2013, 03:04:41 PM »

unfocused

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Re: Which second speedlight should I buy?
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2013, 03:15:58 PM »
How about sell your PWs and 430, then buy 2 600s. 

Sometimes the first and simplest answer is the best.

I have railed on Canon in other threads for their decision to abandon 580EXII owners and I still think it was a shortsighted and ill-advised decision, but despite that frustration, I can't advise anyone with just one strobe to buy either another 430EX or a 580EXII.

Since you don't have a big investment in speedliites, you are better off just biting the bullet and switching to the new 600 RT. To do it right, you will probably have to quickly invest in a ST-E3-RT so you can easily and cordlessly fire both strobes off camera.

As one who owns multiple 580EX II's this isn't an economical solution for me. Instead I've opted for the Youngnuo 622-C transceivers. But, you are probably better off cutting your small losses and switching to the 600 RT.

...Pros: future-proof, best Canon has to offer in terms of features;...

Just one comment: one might have assumed that buying Canon's top-of-the-line speedlite (580EX II) would also have been "future proof" since it was hard to imagine Canon just throwing those buyers into the ditch. We were obviously wrong.

Canon made a conscious decision with the ST-E3-RT to release only half of a product (a transmitter without a receiver). They could have easily accommodated their customers by releasing a full product (transmitter and receiver) but didn't.  The moral of the story: no matter what you buy, it is only "future proof" if Canon wants it to be "future proof."
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Meh

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Re: Which second speedlight should I buy?
« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2013, 03:44:21 PM »
Just one comment: one might have assumed that buying Canon's top-of-the-line speedlite (580EX II) would also have been "future proof" since it was hard to imagine Canon just throwing those buyers into the ditch. We were obviously wrong.

I get where you're coming from but that might be overstated... not releasing a radio receiver is not quite throwing owners of previous Speedlites in the ditch.  Your current flashes still work the way they always have and the 600EX is backward compatible with optical so you can replace a 580 if needed with no loss of functionality.

Perhaps they didn't release a receiver because they too couldn't get one to work reliably with a 580EX II due to the RF interference?

awinphoto

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Re: Which second speedlight should I buy?
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2013, 03:51:01 PM »
screw speedlights... sell them and get a nice strobe kit... Much MUCH more fuller and complete light... consistent output, battery packs available to take them on location...  much more control...  See the light... no pun intended  =)

What kit do you recommend that's reasonably priced for a basic setup,  reasonably portable, reasonably easy/quick to set up on location, good quality/value, etc.?

Hey meh... Alien Bee's... White Lightnings... both can work with the vagabound battery pack... and each 1600 w/s monoblock is cleaper than the 600 series/580's, and have higher GN's and a fuller light than the 600 and 580 at it's fully zoomed maximum output...  They take me seconds to set up compared to mickey mousing speedlights with speedlights softboxes...  Yes, they're bigger, but they are much better impo

edit... personally I splurged and got the white lightnings, but alien bee's share the same flash tube as the WL's and have housing made out of material that's nearly bullet proof.  Drop one of these... you may have to replace a $20 flashtube... drop a 580 at the right angle, you may have to replace the entire unit.

Why did you go for the White Lightnings over the Einsteins?

Hey...  Back in my college days, we were able to borrow/rent equipment from the school... They had the novatrons, prophotos, WL, and a few other smaller units...  I grew a fondness for how the WL's worked... Einsteins had the same output as the 1600x series WL's, and the WL's were cheaper, i was more familiar with the flashes from using them a decade ago at school, and plus when I bought them, i built them into a price I charged a commercial client for a photo shoot and so essentially they bought the lights for me.  =)  I'm sure the Einsteins would be even better, but so far i'm loving my strobes...  Super fast recharges, allows me to be more creative and not worry if the strobes are seeing each other because they are without fail...  no regrets. 
Canon 5d III, Canon 24-105L, Canon 17-40L, Canon 70-200 F4L, Canon 100L 2.8, 430EX 2's and a lot of bumps along the road to get to where I am.

Lawliet

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Re: Which second speedlight should I buy?
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2013, 04:17:24 PM »

That is just so wrong.

Thats quite POV dependent, isn't it? Going by the feature list you're right; but as a photographer: getting more use/value from SBs then from their Canon counterparts when using Canon cameras leaves a funny taste...

madmailman

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Re: Which second speedlight should I buy?
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2013, 04:46:57 PM »
I already had one EX580 ii and I was looking at getting a second one. I am really glad that I found the Yongnuo kit. Instead of getting another 580, or even a 600 I got 3 YN622 flash triggers and a YN568 flash, AND saved myself $300. The YN622s so far have been very reliable and the YN568 is absolutely great especially for the price. I'm thinking of adding another 622 and 568 to my kit now. I never thought flash photography could be so much fun until I took my flash off my camera. I can really recommend the YN kits.
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Lawliet

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Re: Which second speedlight should I buy?
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2013, 05:02:41 PM »
Canon are not innocents in this though, I well remember when they changed lens mount from FD to EF, then we were hung out to dry,

Well, I have no problem using FD lenses on current bodies - they mesh fine with current versions.
But using a single legacy speedlite kills the complete RT functionality, which would have been avoided by following the FD-EF example more closely.

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Re: Which second speedlight should I buy?
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2013, 05:02:41 PM »

unfocused

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Re: Which second speedlight should I buy?
« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2013, 05:12:51 PM »

That is just so wrong.

Thats quite POV dependent, isn't it? Going by the feature list you're right; but as a photographer: getting more use/value from SBs then from their Canon counterparts when using Canon cameras leaves a funny taste...

 No, saying Canon hung 580EX II owners out to dry is not a fact, every feature of the 580EX II is fully supported by the 600EX-RT, I really don't see how anybody could class that as hung out to dry.

 Whereas you believing you get more value out of an SBwhatever with SU4 than a 550EX for around a $100 that has 95% of the functionality of the 580EX II is a personal POV dependent comment that would need to be evaluated on a per user level.

 Canon are not innocents in this though, I well remember when they changed lens mount from FD to EF, then we were hung out to dry, but it all worked out for the best, sometimes harsh love works and I am sure Canon spent a lot of time discussing that major decision. There is no doubt in my mind, now with the benefit of hindsight, that Canon did the right thing then. I get the feeling they have done the same thing with the inability to use the optical and radio at the same time with the new RT system.

I suppose we have to agree to disagree. My point is simply this. Canon chose to release half of a product. They released a transmitter and no receiver. There is absolutely no technical reason why they needed to do that. Indeed, Yongnuo, Pocket Wizard, etc. etc., all produce transmitters and receivers or transceivers that combine both functions.

Canon, on the other hand, chose not to release a receiver, only a transmitter.

This is not, in any way, comparable to complaining because Canon products are too expensive or that they failed to custom build a camera to one's specific desires. This was a calculated judgment call on their part not to offer a complete product to make their previous top-of-the-line product compatible with a new model.

Yes, I understand that the new strobe can be used with IR control. I understand that the same features of the 580EXII exist that existed before they released the 600.

Actually, referencing the change from the FD lens mount is a good comparison to make my point. Canon has acknowledged that they only changed the lens mount because they simply could not continue to use the same mount and keep current with technology. They did it reluctantly.

In this case, there is no technological reason they can not produce a receiver that would work with older model strobes. They just simply decided to sell only half of a product. And yes, that does indeed leave a bad taste in the mouth.
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Lawliet

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Re: Which second speedlight should I buy?
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2013, 06:05:10 PM »
Somehow I must have missed the requirement to disable AF on all EF lenses, otherwise my point would be perfectly valid... ???

Thats the crux: one single C legacy flash and there goes the whole RT functionality. Neither as TTL nor as a simple trigger like the PWII(I) or Strato. I.e. should someone consider using RT w/o going all in he's better off buying 3rd party flashes as they remain viable.

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Re: Which second speedlight should I buy?
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2013, 06:05:10 PM »