December 22, 2014, 01:11:17 PM

Author Topic: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]  (Read 45316 times)

J.R.

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1525
    • View Profile
Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #75 on: January 27, 2013, 01:00:42 PM »

The AF demands would have to be very stringent indeed. I've yet to find a situation where my 5D3 would focus but my 7D wouldn't, at least with a "reasonable" amount of light.


If you do not find the AF of the 5D3 vastly different then maybe ... well, what can I say  :-\

My mileage with the 5D3 is much better as compared to the 7D ... I don't print large so I don't really need the extra MP the 7D has to offer. 
« Last Edit: January 27, 2013, 01:09:48 PM by J.R. »
1DX, 5D3, 600D, RX100
16-35L, 24-70L II, 70-200L II, 100-400L, 50L, 85L II, 135L, 24TSE, 40, 100 macro, 18-55 II, 55-250 II, 1.4x III, 2x III, 600RT x 4
The grass is always greener when you crank up the saturation in photoshop

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #75 on: January 27, 2013, 01:00:42 PM »

ahsanford

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1069
    • View Profile
Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #76 on: January 27, 2013, 01:16:46 PM »
Considering Canon crippled the 6D to only 11 AF points with only 1 Xtype point

I just would like to point out that like the 5d2, the 6d has *no* real cross af point at all @f2.8, but if the horizontal-only f2.8 line cannot lock falls back to the less precise f5.6 overlay x-point. Thanks, Canon.

Sorry to go off-topic, but to speak to the prospects of the 7D2's AF system, consider from the FF world:

1DX:  State of the art 61/41 AF system, state of the art metering with dedicated processor, fastest burst
5D3:  State of the art 61/41 AF system*, but something like the current 7D's metering**, good burst
6D:    Nerfed AF system (limited options), but something like the current 7D's metering**, slowest burst

* Yes, I realize that this royally p----- off 1D users accustomed to exclusive tech.  As a 5D3 owner, I absolutely love this call.

** I don't study metering as often, but the specs seemed numerically similar if not identical from what I've (admittedly briefly) read.

So wouldn't it be logical for the following arrangement?

7D2:  State of the art 61/41 AF system, but something like the current 7D's metering, fastest burst
70D:  Ok AF system (decent but not 1DX/5D3), but something like the current 7D's metering, good burst
700D:  Nerfed AF system (limited options), ??? for metering and slowest burst
XXXXD:  Worst of everything, might spontaneously explode from users having even modest burst rate hopes

I fully understand why the 6D was nerfed.  Great AF takes hardware (and therefore cost) to pull off, and they wanted (a) to get the 6D cost down and (b) protect the 5D3 as the all-around popular/mainstream FF choice.  Mission accomplished on both fronts, but the D600 has far more AF points (albeit all within a hair of center) to sell against the 6D as a result.

But the 7D2 (a) will not be cheap (see my post on Page 5) and (b) is not in any way competing with the 5D3 unless you are the most discriminating pixel peeper who doesn't mind teleconverters or madly expensive long glass.

So give the damn 7D2 the AF system it ought to have -- the best one!

- A
« Last Edit: January 27, 2013, 01:18:53 PM by ahsanford »

ahsanford

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1069
    • View Profile
Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #77 on: January 27, 2013, 01:24:33 PM »
Hypothetically, if a spectacular -- I mean game-changingly better -- APS-C body were offered...  That with glass of length X that took shots as well as a great FF camera did with glass of length 1.6X...

Wouldn't that be a camera worth $3k?  Hell, $4K?!  As nuts as that sounds, think of the money saved on buying X length glass instead of 1.6X length.

Just saying.   ::)

- A

bdunbar79

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • ********
  • Posts: 2606
    • View Profile
Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #78 on: January 27, 2013, 01:27:21 PM »
I'm telling you guys, you're gonna want that cowbell on the 7D Mark II.
2 x 1DX
Big Ten, GLIAC, NCAC

LetTheRightLensIn

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *********
  • Posts: 4065
    • View Profile
Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #79 on: January 27, 2013, 01:31:10 PM »
It would be nice to have an update on the 50mm f/1.4 - at least I am curious about it.

What would be the improvement in a new 50 f/1.4 have over the old one?
As an amateur the current lens works pretty well for me. Took a picture just yesterday. Very low light. Only source was a flatscreen. No NR applied.



1. AF that doesn't break when you look at it
2. AF that is not based-upon mid-1980s AF precision and has full ring USM speed

J.R.

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1525
    • View Profile
Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #80 on: January 27, 2013, 01:32:15 PM »

I don't have a 5Diii but I've been thinking about it. Is the AF for the Group C lenses really that much better than the 7Ds? It seems like they're cross type, if I'm reading the manual right. As far as 61 vs 19 points are concerned, I'm usually using spot focus in the center (or maybe spot with af point expansion) for anything in motion.

Yes it is better.

Group C lenses have 41 x-type AF points against the 19 of the 7D. The 19 AF points of the 7D cover roughly the same area of the frame as the 5D3 but the extra AF points of the 5D3 result in better AF performance overall when using the AF expansion mode and even otherwise. 
1DX, 5D3, 600D, RX100
16-35L, 24-70L II, 70-200L II, 100-400L, 50L, 85L II, 135L, 24TSE, 40, 100 macro, 18-55 II, 55-250 II, 1.4x III, 2x III, 600RT x 4
The grass is always greener when you crank up the saturation in photoshop

J.R.

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1525
    • View Profile
Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #81 on: January 27, 2013, 01:35:00 PM »
Hypothetically, if a spectacular -- I mean game-changingly better -- APS-C body were offered...  That with glass of length X that took shots as well as a great FF camera did with glass of length 1.6X...

Wouldn't that be a camera worth $3k?  Hell, $4K?!  As nuts as that sounds, think of the money saved on buying X length glass instead of 1.6X length.

Just saying.   ::)

- A

Yeah ... hypothetically ... if you wanted to kill off the 1DX with its measly 18.1MP :P
1DX, 5D3, 600D, RX100
16-35L, 24-70L II, 70-200L II, 100-400L, 50L, 85L II, 135L, 24TSE, 40, 100 macro, 18-55 II, 55-250 II, 1.4x III, 2x III, 600RT x 4
The grass is always greener when you crank up the saturation in photoshop

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #81 on: January 27, 2013, 01:35:00 PM »

RS2021

  • 5D Mark III
  • ******
  • Posts: 720
    • View Profile
Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #82 on: January 27, 2013, 01:36:03 PM »
Of the listed productline, only 7D II is credible.

The current 7D is ageing and the time is ripe for a newer version. Placing the 5D3 AF system in the new 7D2 would be a no brainer. They are likely to put the WiFi and GPS also on 7D2 from the 6D platform.

By the time the 7D2 actually materializes, Canon would have extracted what they can out of the marketing from 5D3 and 6D...not that 7D clients would ever view these as overlapping.

In general, Canon tends to split the techs among bodies (overlapping or not) and then move them across the board.

As for the lenses, 35L II is a possibility. I simply don't see near term 14-24L nor the 100-400L II.   
“Sharpness is a bourgeois concept” - Henri Cartier-Bresson

LetTheRightLensIn

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *********
  • Posts: 4065
    • View Profile
Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #83 on: January 27, 2013, 01:37:17 PM »
Son of a.... Two more bodies with the 18mp sensor until the 7D2 by the sounds of it.

http://www.canonwatch.com/category/rumors/

J.R.

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1525
    • View Profile
Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #84 on: January 27, 2013, 01:41:27 PM »

In general, Canon tends to split the techs among bodies (overlapping or not) and then move them across the board.

But Canon doesn't ... insofar as AF systems go or else even the Rebels would be arriving with the eye-controlled AF of the EOS-3

Even the 19pt AF of the 7D was and is exclusive to it ... Just sayin
1DX, 5D3, 600D, RX100
16-35L, 24-70L II, 70-200L II, 100-400L, 50L, 85L II, 135L, 24TSE, 40, 100 macro, 18-55 II, 55-250 II, 1.4x III, 2x III, 600RT x 4
The grass is always greener when you crank up the saturation in photoshop

ahsanford

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1069
    • View Profile
Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #85 on: January 27, 2013, 01:41:54 PM »
Of the listed productline, only 7D II is credible.

The current 7D is ageing and the time is ripe for a newer version. Placing the 5D3 AF system in the new 7D2 would be a no brainer. They are likely to put the WiFi and GPS also on 7D2 from the 6D platform.

By the time the 7D2 actually materializes, Canon would have extracted what they can out of the marketing from 5D3 and 6D...not that 7D clients would ever view these as overlapping.

In general, Canon tends to split the techs among bodies (overlapping or not) and then move them across the board.

As for the lenses, 35L II is a possibility. I simply don't see near term 14-24L nor the 100-400L II.   

As much as I want wifi and (especially) iPhone liveview on my 5D3, I'm not convinced the new 6D wireless stuff is a shoe-in for all models down the road.

For the 70D, I'd expect wifi for certain.  Eventually on the XXXD bodies as well.  No brainer.

But I seem to recall that pro-bodies (for now, let's put the 7D2 in that bucket) having such a reliance on magnesium housings that they were problematic from a wireless antenna standpoint.  The 6D is much more plastic than magnesium, and that may not just be for cost.  The cheaper build decision may also have paved the way for wifi to work effectively.

So if you had to choose wifi or better materials for shock resistance and weather sealing -- what would you go with on the 7D2?  As much as I want wifi, build quality is paramount to me.

- A

LetTheRightLensIn

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *********
  • Posts: 4065
    • View Profile
Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #86 on: January 27, 2013, 01:45:21 PM »
Well that's too bad - no high MP body, but good for my wallet I guess. 

If they release a new 100-400 I'll get it though.

Maybe 7D2 is 32MP, APS-H, 8fps, 5D3 AF, high-quality HD video, Exmor-like low ISO DR new process sensor that also has high ISO DR at least as good as 1DX.  :D
Well one can sail off into fantasy land. It is a nice place.  ;D
And maybe it is a real place.

10fps,24MP,APS-C,5D3AF, new process sensor is perhaps more likely

LetTheRightLensIn

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *********
  • Posts: 4065
    • View Profile
Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #87 on: January 27, 2013, 01:53:12 PM »
I don't have a 7D. But what I've heard and read from those who have both it and a 5DIII, even using the same lenses for little birdies when they're distance-limited with both bodies, the 5DIII still beats the 7D. I've heard from more than one person who had both with the intention of using them for different stuff...and who ditched the 7D (either altogether or to pay for another 5DIII).

Even though the cropped image from the 5DIII doesn't have as many megapickles as the still cropped image from the 7D, the image quality is at least comparable, with the nod perhaps going to the 5DIII. But, more importantly, even though the frame rate is lower for the 5DIII, the autofocus system is so much better that you get a higher percentage of keepers.

I've had both. Not even close to reality. I had to sell my 7D to help fund the 5D3 but I do still miss the extra reach I got. I compared them side by side both under strict lab conditions and shooting birds in the field and the 7D absolutely put more detail on birds when using the same lens on both cams.

And for shooting birds sitting in trees among branches and so on that, along with surfing, was the one place where I didn't find the 5D3 did any better (for most other things the 5D3 AF does seem to do a lot better though).




canon rumors FORUM

Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #87 on: January 27, 2013, 01:53:12 PM »

LetTheRightLensIn

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *********
  • Posts: 4065
    • View Profile
Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #88 on: January 27, 2013, 01:54:47 PM »
I had an interresting talk with five Japanese tourists at the winners ceremony.
They had professional Nikon and Canon cameras and told me that Nikon will release a top Crop Camera in spring this year and update their Nikon 100-400 pedant (80-400 or so).

The Canon 7D2 will be priced much higher than an D300 successor, near the 5D3 .
The Camera will be an class for its own. A small 1Dx. Fast AF and high fps. A special product for all persons that will need high speed and do not have the money for an 1Dx.
The Canon successor of the 100-400 will be at 270.000-300000 Yen.

One of them said, that in Japanese photography chatrooms many think, that  Canon should buy some of the parts at thrid party companies. Today the Sony chip is much better than Canons.
And if Canon will not change their strategy, they will be soon in financial problems

Interesting. I mean there is no way those people likely have any inside information whatsoever. That said, those comments sound fairly reasonable all the same.

LetTheRightLensIn

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *********
  • Posts: 4065
    • View Profile
Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #89 on: January 27, 2013, 01:57:17 PM »
In another forum they suppose >2500$ for the MK 2.  :(   I hope they will be wrong with this rumor

I have a hard time believing that. The 7D was $1,700 when introduced. History of the XXD series was that the new models come out near the introductory price of the previous model. At $2,500, that would be too close to what the 5DIII will be at the same time. I can't imagine what whiz-bang features would prompt me to buy a crop camera that is roughly the same price as a 5DIII. If Canon wants to squeeze money out of a top-of-the-line APS-C camera, my uneducated guess is that it would come in slightly under $2k. I would put the Vegas over/under at $1,899.

Dave

+1

I don't see how many people people will be queuing up for the 7DII if it were even close to the 5D3.

It will, I believe, be for less than the 6D.

-1

the 70D will be for those people and the 7D2 will be the one that crazy delivers but you pay for it a bit more

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #89 on: January 27, 2013, 01:57:17 PM »