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Author Topic: anyone had someone over their shoulder on a job?  (Read 9935 times)

risc32

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anyone had someone over their shoulder on a job?
« on: February 06, 2013, 07:15:40 PM »
At nearly every wedding i've done lately i've had a friend, or aunt or whomever of the bride/groom basically acting as the lead photographer. Perhaps it's just by shear chance but they are always ladies. They also are either part time wedding photographers, or they mostly do portrait work, or they work with kids. It drives me completely insane. I'll be taking formal shots and half of the people will be looking at me and the others will be looking at the lady with the big nikon. When I go to weddings i'm not working I don't even bring my camera. And the few times I do, i sure as hell don't go fooling around during the formals, and I certainly don't grab the bride/groom and whisk them out the the reception for a bunch of posing shots.
  this happens to me all the time. I know what i'd like to say to the interloper, but i don't think it would go over very well. Anyone else exp this behavior?

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anyone had someone over their shoulder on a job?
« on: February 06, 2013, 07:15:40 PM »

RS2021

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Re: anyone had someone over their shoulder on a job?
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2013, 07:20:12 PM »
Just produce a professional product at the end that the big lens amateur can never match...that will be your revenge.
If you cannot beat her, then you deserve a second fiddle...or in that case a first fiddle :)
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paul13walnut5

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Re: anyone had someone over their shoulder on a job?
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2013, 08:20:43 PM »
I get this a lot, but from a different angle, I do video, and the stills guys want to take over.
We have a pool of staff photographers who I'm on good terms with and we usually just decide who is going first and thats that, no flash pops during my video, no distracting eyelines during their stills.

Works great until we use freelancers. Because its essentially a publishing company I work for there is this attitude that print is king, on one shoot i was working on (awards vt for worthy kids) the freelance photographer turned up and said "phuq me, nobody told me there would be a video guy here, if he gets in my way He'll be getting fling to phuq, who's the producer for this?"

Hand held out

"Hiya, nice to meet you, I'm Paul, i'm directing the shoot today, would you like to start again perhaps?"

As I recall the guy took not bad stills, just seem to have lost his number so haven't been able to book him again.

On another televised shoot I was doing the post award reaction cam, with nice branded backdrop and 4x red lighting with key rim set fill, looking nice.  Freelance tog turns up and starts demanding I get off his space, and starts messing around with my lights.  He obviously hadn't handled reds before and i was in no mood to warn him. "Please don't do that...oops is that your shutter finger?, shaame"

The basic point is that these other togs are being very unprofessional, don't cause a scene, point out that you are the hired photographer, and that they are interupting your work.  If that doesnt help then you need to involve the best man or head bridesmaid.



bycostello

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Re: anyone had someone over their shoulder on a job?
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2013, 09:14:02 PM »
let them do their shot and then you do yours...  no harm to stand back for a moment.

Chewngum

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Re: anyone had someone over their shoulder on a job?
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2013, 11:09:15 PM »
It is a matter of attitude I think. I try to professional and friendly at the same time. Wedding or party there will still be 1000 mobile phones and cameras popping out from every angle. At times that matter I turn around and tell everyone I will go first and then they get their turn. Sharing the focus(pun intended) with un-hired people sucks and it ends up ruining everyones photos with shifting eyes. Don't compete, if you are paid to be there then have the confidence to talk to people and let everyone have a go. It is your job to make sure you make full use of your time with them looking only at you.
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V8Beast

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Re: anyone had someone over their shoulder on a job?
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2013, 11:28:52 PM »
I don't run into this too often, and can only imagine how bad it must get at weddings when there are hundreds of people standing around. Not too long ago, I was shooting a truck and the owner showed up with his wife, who was a graphic designer. I ran through the itinerary for the day, and pointed out which locations we'd be shooting at during which time of day. The wife took it upon herself to tell me which location to shoot at, and where to position the truck. As annoying as that was, I diffused the situation as politely as possible and the rest of the day went smoothly.

V8Beast

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Re: anyone had someone over their shoulder on a job?
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2013, 11:29:43 PM »
As I recall the guy took not bad stills, just seem to have lost his number so haven't been able to book him again.

LMAO ;D That's the funniest line I've read in a long time ;D

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Re: anyone had someone over their shoulder on a job?
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2013, 11:29:43 PM »

bdunbar79

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Re: anyone had someone over their shoulder on a job?
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2013, 11:56:01 PM »
At nearly every wedding i've done lately i've had a friend, or aunt or whomever of the bride/groom basically acting as the lead photographer. Perhaps it's just by shear chance but they are always ladies. They also are either part time wedding photographers, or they mostly do portrait work, or they work with kids. It drives me completely insane. I'll be taking formal shots and half of the people will be looking at me and the others will be looking at the lady with the big nikon. When I go to weddings i'm not working I don't even bring my camera. And the few times I do, i sure as hell don't go fooling around during the formals, and I certainly don't grab the bride/groom and whisk them out the the reception for a bunch of posing shots.
  this happens to me all the time. I know what i'd like to say to the interloper, but i don't think it would go over very well. Anyone else exp this behavior?


I actually got tired of this and was shooting a senior night for sports at a high school the other night and told parents to get out of my way because I had to do my job.  They were sort of taken aback but they got out of the way and I got my photos.  You just gotta be an a** sometimes.

pwp

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Re: anyone had someone over their shoulder on a job?
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2013, 01:39:05 AM »
As a professional you are going to out-perform the shoulder shooter by several orders of magnitude. At a wedding I never mind the shoulder shooters, make friends with them and get agreement that YOU are the primary shooter and not to get in you way. You never know, their shots may just save the day if the unimaginable happens.

But it depends on the situation. For many years I shot news & sports for a major metropolitan daily newspaper. To "shoulder-shoot" another news photographers setup was an open invitation for an almost immediate rather high level physical response. News photography can be a brutal environment. Organized photo-calls are slightly different, everyone generally has the same opportunity, it's your choice of timing, your chosen position, lens choice etc that may give you the "money" shot. But another shooter who has waited for hours in a prime position in a crowded situation will respond violently if you shove in for a shoulder shot.

So depending on the situation, the shoulder shooter can be a friend and make a job more fun, or be a mild irritation or an be your arch enemy.

-PW

picturesbyme

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Re: anyone had someone over their shoulder on a job?
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2013, 02:03:04 AM »
I actually make it clear by contract  with the client  that I am the hired gun for the day... brides are better to deal with because they usually run the show. Explaining that if they want great results, they must follow my lead or I can pack it up. Usually the client will wholeheartedly agree because they want perfection and they are paying good money. Sure, you'll never be able to shut it completely down but you can get yours in first and then let the guest go at it. Usually all it takes is a quick... "Right here!!!" and I get the attention back but you need to make this clear with the client before it all goes down.

Exactly.
Almost impossible to avoid from uncle Bobs but discussing this at the consultation with the couple and/or the coordinator + the contract could be a big help.

J.R.

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Re: anyone had someone over their shoulder on a job?
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2013, 03:21:55 AM »
Interesting thread.

I am a hobbyist and always take special care not to interrupt the paid pro-photographer at an event. However, sometimes I do utilize my 6-3 frame to literally shoot over the paid photographer's shoulder :P - Of course I take the trouble to speak to them beforehand informing them of what I'm going to do and ask them whether it distracts them - not too many rake up a fuss as long as you are not (i) obstructing their view; (ii) ending up of getting involved in changing the composition of a shot
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NotABunny

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Re: anyone had someone over their shoulder on a job?
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2013, 04:17:18 AM »
First, to put things into perspective, I take photos at weddings, as a friend of the bride / groom. I don't use a flash and I don't get in the way of the photographer.

But here is the catch, I don't get in the way of the photographer because I think that the shots where this may happen are boring as hell, you know, posed shots (in the presence of everybody).

I go for candid moments, those shots that most people either don't see, or chances are you can't overlap with others taking photos.

If the photographer plans a specific pose, that is, has a specific idea rather than going for the usual "take a shot of everybody", I can't see how anyone would get in the way, or why the bride and groom would look to someone else. If this happens, it only means that the photographer is not showing who is the puppet master and appears to the other people as "just someone with a camera, like everybody else".

I have seen hired photographers tell the relative / friend type with compacts not to shoot at the same time because of their flash. Outside this, I think that the (hired) photographer has to adapt to the situation.

I mean, okay, you are annoyed by the gal / guy with a camera, but what do you do with all those people who moved around, back and forth, crossing your lens just as you trigger? Would you throw them out of the wedding? Would tell them to stay put in their chair? Are you telling yourself "oh, crap, I can't take candids because of all these people, I can only take posed but even then there are all these people..."?
« Last Edit: February 07, 2013, 04:19:32 AM by NotABunny »

AudioGlenn

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Re: anyone had someone over their shoulder on a job?
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2013, 04:36:27 AM »
LOL.  I actually think I was one of the annoying guests/photographers at my cousins wedding last December.  I shoot weddings every once in a while.  for my cousin... of course I'm gonna take pictures.  The paid photographer was most definitely annoyed by all the other guests with DSLRs.  (I was not the only one).  The MC even made an announcement over the PA for everyone to "not to get in the way of the professional photographer".... it (the announcement) was pretty f'n douchey if you ask me. 

To be honest, you get no sympathy from me.  When I'm at a wedding gig, I've just learned to deal with others who own cameras.  It doesn't annoy me.  You work around it.  Hell, take a picture of them taking a picture.  Get the subjects attention if they're trying to figure out which camera to look at.  It's just gonna happen....it'll get worse for you if you don't change your attitude.

remember: a reasonable man adapts to his environment.  an unreasonable man will expect his environment to adapt to him.... think about it

btw, I saw the guys work afterwards.   it was "aight"... seems to me, the photographers who are having trouble getting the job done "because guests are in the way" are the same ones who need a little more practice.
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Re: anyone had someone over their shoulder on a job?
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2013, 04:36:27 AM »

ewg963

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Re: anyone had someone over their shoulder on a job?
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2013, 05:49:04 AM »
 :) Be professional, friendly and firm. Your work will shine through. If I'm not the main photographer and want the same shot the I'll ask the party or parties if they don't mind if they could please hold that pose for a second longer after the main takes his shots then I snap my shots. It's how you approach it!!! I love NOTABUNNY take with the candid shots and no flash option!!! +1 on that :) ;)
« Last Edit: February 07, 2013, 05:59:11 AM by ewg963 »
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ewg963

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Re: anyone had someone over their shoulder on a job?
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2013, 05:59:52 AM »
LOL.  I actually think I was one of the annoying guests/photographers at my cousins wedding last December.  I shoot weddings every once in a while.  for my cousin... of course I'm gonna take pictures.  The paid photographer was most definitely annoyed by all the other guests with DSLRs.  (I was not the only one).  The MC even made an announcement over the PA for everyone to "not to get in the way of the professional photographer".... it (the announcement) was pretty f'n douchey if you ask me. 

To be honest, you get no sympathy from me.  When I'm at a wedding gig, I've just learned to deal with others who own cameras.  It doesn't annoy me.  You work around it.  Hell, take a picture of them taking a picture.  Get the subjects attention if they're trying to figure out which camera to look at.  It's just gonna happen....it'll get worse for you if you don't change your attitude.

remember: a reasonable man adapts to his environment.  an unreasonable man will expect his environment to adapt to him.... think about it

btw, I saw the guys work afterwards.   it was "aight"... seems to me, the photographers who are having trouble getting the job done "because guests are in the way" are the same ones who need a little more practice.
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Re: anyone had someone over their shoulder on a job?
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2013, 05:59:52 AM »