September 22, 2014, 06:42:13 AM

Author Topic: Addicted to dof  (Read 5145 times)

alexturton

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Addicted to dof
« on: March 06, 2013, 02:56:40 AM »
Hi all.

I have the canon 50mm 1.4 an the canon 85mm 1.8 using on my 5d3.

I'm constantly on a quest for shallower dof. I do a lot of street photography.


My hesitations on upgrading to the L lenses are (other than cost):

Will I actually see a noticeable difference in dof?
The 50mmL has a pronounced focus shift narrower than f2.
The 85mm 1.2. is slower af than the 1.8

My question is will I see much difference between 1.4 and 1.2 @ 50mm and 1.8 and 1.2 at 85mm?
Also, does anyone know if the sigma 85 is any good? And similarly is it worth going from 85mm 1.8 to 85mm 1.4?
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Addicted to dof
« on: March 06, 2013, 02:56:40 AM »

AmbientLight

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Re: Addicted to dof
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2013, 04:53:31 AM »
Yes, you will most definitely see a difference. I don't own the non-L variants, but I have tried to use both 50mm L and 85mm L for street photography and I tend to shoot at late hours, so I usually only use f1.2 to f1.8 apertures. Using the faster L primes not only provides you with even better bokeh, but it also allows you to freeze motion, which may become blurred using a slower lens. This is of course only pushing a boundary, but it does make a difference.

There is a significant advantage using a 1D-X or 1Ds Mark III, because of the more powerful battery driving AF motors faster, but that's the only thing to improve compared to using a 5D Mark III.

Many on this forum complain about high cost of particular lenses. I would rather not touch this subject here.

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Re: Addicted to dof
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2013, 05:37:33 AM »
AE-1+winder.

dmills

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Re: Addicted to dof
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2013, 05:42:38 AM »
http://www.juzaphoto.com/article.php?l=en&article=49

There's another one that compares the 1.8 to the 1.2.

You're looking at roughly 1 stop of light difference between the two as well (The difference between f4 and f2.8 )
« Last Edit: March 06, 2013, 06:01:00 AM by dmills »
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elflord

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Re: Addicted to dof
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2013, 06:04:44 AM »
Hi all.

I have the canon 50mm 1.4 an the canon 85mm 1.8 using on my 5d3.

I'm constantly on a quest for shallower dof. I do a lot of street photography.


My hesitations on upgrading to the L lenses are (other than cost):

Will I actually see a noticeable difference in dof?
The 50mmL has a pronounced focus shift narrower than f2.
The 85mm 1.2. is slower af than the 1.8

My question is will I see much difference between 1.4 and 1.2 @ 50mm and 1.8 and 1.2 at 85mm?
Also, does anyone know if the sigma 85 is any good? And similarly is it worth going from 85mm 1.8 to 85mm 1.4?

Yes, the Sigma is pretty good. Myself and several other forum members are satisfied owners. Take a look at the review on thedigitalpicture where it spanks the Zeiss and the Canon f/1.8 -- it's second in image quality (and a close second) only to the 85mm f/1.2. AF speed on the sigma is quite reasonable.

PavelR

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Re: Addicted to dof
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2013, 06:12:34 AM »
I've upgraded C 85/1.8 (purple fringing and inconsistent AF) to S 85/1.4 - all is better now - IQ, AF speed and consistency.
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infared

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Re: Addicted to dof
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2013, 06:31:29 AM »
"Yes, the Sigma is pretty good. Myself and several other forum members are satisfied owners. Take a look at the review on thedigitalpicture where it spanks the Zeiss and the Canon f/1.8 -- it's second in image quality (and a close second) only to the 85mm f/1.2. AF speed on the sigma is quite reasonable."

I have all L glass and Zeiss...But I chose the Sigma 50mm f/1.4 as well..it performs perfectly for my needs...I am always pleased with the sharpness and the bokeh. I think you as a night-time street shooter would enjoy the Sigma..the focus speed is very good as is the bokeh..it is also mechanically refreshing to the two lesser Canon offerings, (did I really just say that about a Sigma product?!  :o).also..the cost..right now it can be had for $450 with rebate. Sigma is upping the ante ..their new 35mm 1.4 outperforms the big guns for much less money...I like to see more of this!
I skipped the 50mm L..to go for REAL shallow DOF..
I would not regard my 85mm f/1.2 as a street-shooting lens, though...but oh if you have the money and the patience for the slow focus and infinitesimal, shimmering DOF ...it can leave you speechless! This lens is pushing the limits of physics..and has tons of fringing...but LR cleans it up nicely.. Maybe try renting one and see for yourself...but try to move past the obvious difficulties of using this beast...it has great rewards for the patient explorers!!!
The beast also delivers incredible results @f1.4-2.0 and beyond, stunning actually.....it's slow on the focus though...in some cases, maybe better off with the Sigma 85mm f/1.4 or perhaps a Canon 135mm F/2L...alas..it's all a compromise!
« Last Edit: March 06, 2013, 07:14:53 AM by infared »
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Re: Addicted to dof
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2013, 06:31:29 AM »

wayno

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Re: Addicted to dof
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2013, 06:56:42 AM »
Alex - the Sigma 85 is excellent and definitely AFs faster than the 85L. While there is a marginal difference in look between 1.2 and 1.4, I find 1.4 looks natural (just) whereas 1.2 can sometimes look a little odd (even creepy visually). Just my opinion though. Both the 1.4 and 1.2 require a degree of patience - the Sigma a bit less so.

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Re: Addicted to dof
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2013, 07:24:51 AM »
The 85L has more OOF Blur at the same apertures compared to other lenses.... this is key for you.

Take a look at this: http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Sigma-85mm-f-1.4-EX-DG-HSM-Lens-Review.aspx

The 4th pic down of his daughter holding a iron fence... hover over the different F values and you will see that F2, the EF85L has almost as much blur as the Sigma does at F1.4.  And we know Sigma is better than the EF 85 F/1.8...  You will have 2-3 virtual apertures left with the 85L (or should I say levels) to blur out the background more.

It is a very sharp lens even wide open. You will lose some AF speed but then are you also addicted to AF speed?

I would own one if I made money off this hobby...

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infared

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Re: Addicted to dof
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2013, 07:49:00 AM »
The 85L has more OOF Blur at the same apertures compared to other lenses.... this is key for you.

Take a look at this: http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Sigma-85mm-f-1.4-EX-DG-HSM-Lens-Review.aspx

The 4th pic down of his daughter holding a iron fence... hover over the different F values and you will see that F2, the EF85L has almost as much blur as the Sigma does at F1.4.  And we know Sigma is better than the EF 85 F/1.8...  You will have 2-3 virtual apertures left with the 85L (or should I say levels) to blur out the background more.

It is a very sharp lens even wide open. You will lose some AF speed but then are you also addicted to AF speed?

I would own one if I made money off this hobby...

So....K-amps...why is the Canon so much more "bokehlicious" at a given aperture, focal length and distance with similar (?) aperture blades? I recently read somewhere that there is another factor ( a revelation actually...that I was unaware of), affecting Bokeh....but I can' seem to recall what it was  ??? My memory fails me at times...
Nice article reference BTW!...I missed that one.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2013, 08:37:01 AM by infared »
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3kramd5

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Re: Addicted to dof
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2013, 08:38:59 AM »
The 85L has more OOF Blur at the same apertures compared to other lenses.... this is key for you.

Take a look at this: http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Sigma-85mm-f-1.4-EX-DG-HSM-Lens-Review.aspx

The 4th pic down of his daughter holding a iron fence... hover over the different F values and you will see that F2, the EF85L has almost as much blur as the Sigma does at F1.4.  And we know Sigma is better than the EF 85 F/1.8...  You will have 2-3 virtual apertures left with the 85L (or should I say levels) to blur out the background more.

It is a very sharp lens even wide open. You will lose some AF speed but then are you also addicted to AF speed?

I would own one if I made money off this hobby...

So....K-amps...why is the Canon so much more "bokehlicious" at a given aperture, focal length and distance with similar (?) aperture blades? I recently read somewhere that there is another factor ( a revelation actually...that I was unaware of), affecting Bokeh....but I can' seem to recall what it was  ??? My memory fails me at times...
Nice article reference BTW!...I missed that one.

Blur quality isn't necessarily a function of the shallowness of the DOF. Generally, the shape of the aperture plays a major role. The better the iris approximates a circle, the rounder the out-of-focus spots tend to be. Hard lines in OOF can look jarring, which is why for example the OOF areas look 'better' with a 50mm/1.2 (8 blades) than with a 50mm/1.8 (5 blades), even with the former stopped down to match depth of field.

There are some exotic lenses with as many as 20 blades.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2013, 08:47:22 AM by 3kramd5 »
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Dylan777

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Re: Addicted to dof
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2013, 09:12:05 AM »
As an owner of 50mm f1.4 and 50L, Yes - there is a huge different btw f1.4 Vs L.

The 50L required AFMA. I did it through Focal. I calibrated my 50L at f1.2, 2.8, 4, 5.6, and f8. I recorded the AFMA values on a small paper and taped to lens hood. That way, I can use my 50L from f1.2 to f8 without worry about focus shift.
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neuroanatomist

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Re: Addicted to dof
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2013, 09:26:58 AM »
why is the Canon so much more "bokehlicious" at a given aperture, focal length and distance with similar (?) aperture blades?

Lens design is all about tradeoffs.  For example, the 50/1.2L could have been made sharper - instead, Canon designed with lens with intentionally undercorrected spherical aberration which is part of the reason for the 'creamy' bokeh for which the lens is known.
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Re: Addicted to dof
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2013, 09:26:58 AM »

RS2021

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Re: Addicted to dof
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2013, 09:49:45 AM »
why is the Canon so much more "bokehlicious" at a given aperture, focal length and distance with similar (?) aperture blades?

Lens design is all about tradeoffs.  For example, the 50/1.2L could have been made sharper - instead, Canon designed with lens with intentionally undercorrected spherical aberration which is part of the reason for the 'creamy' bokeh for which the lens is known.

Yup, both 50L and 85L were same year releases and probably developed in parallel...both share a lot of design and spec strengths and compromises. Some residual SA is an intentional design feature...thats what gives you that dreamy look...and frequently also gives you that directional swirling bokeh in the corners.

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K-amps

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Re: Addicted to dof
« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2013, 09:58:41 AM »
why is the Canon so much more "bokehlicious" at a given aperture, focal length and distance with similar (?) aperture blades?

Lens design is all about tradeoffs.  For example, the 50/1.2L could have been made sharper - instead, Canon designed with lens with intentionally undercorrected spherical aberration which is part of the reason for the 'creamy' bokeh for which the lens is known.

Yup, both 50L and 85L were same year releases and probably developed in parallel...both share a lot of design and spec strengths and compromises. Some residual SA is an intentional design feature...thats what gives you that dreamy look...and frequently also gives you that directional swirling bokeh in the corners.

True, but the 50L is not as sharp wide open as the 85L is. The 85L is amazingly sharp... not many people realize this since the DoF is so narrow that they may not have AF point spread to take advantange of it, but most pros know this. The 50L as Neuro IS a compromise, the 85L is not in this case.

As pointed out the Shape of the Iris (Circular/rounded) and the presence of certain spherical elements does contribute to the 85L's bokelisciousness...  it is definitely one of the best EF lenses in Bokeh (and Qty of blur).
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Re: Addicted to dof
« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2013, 09:58:41 AM »